24 - Thomas Vermaelen

[Chainsaw]

He's World Class when he doesn't play perhaps.

 

[Alik]

Rakitic, Bravo, and Mathieu stepped it up. It's possible Vermaelen might do it too.

 

[raki]

i believe in him.

 

[Flavia]

He's World Class when he doesn't play perhaps.

Pretty much. Vermaelen is a decent cb, never world class.

 

[Barcaman]

What's with all this "world class" 2nd grade talk?

To succeed at Barca you need certain technical and tactical qualities. And when you think about it, there aren't too many cbs out there that could fit Barca like Vermaelen (when fit).

And btw. neither Mathieu nor Rakitic where "world class" and we wouldn't have won the treble without them.

Regarding Bartra... His status is in no way hindered by Vermaelen presence. One is RCB, other LCB. So please stop that talk.

 

[Zangash]

What's with all this "world class" 2nd grade talk?

To succeed at Barca you need certain technical and tactical qualities. And when you think about it, there aren't too many cbs out there that could fit Barca like Vermaelen (when fit).

And btw. neither Mathieu nor Rakitic where "world class" and we wouldn't have won the treble without them.

Regarding Bartra... His status is in no way hindered by Vermaelen presence. One is RCB, other LCB. So please stop that talk.

Bartra is able to play LCB and did so quite often next to Pique during Mathieu's injury spell last season. Now if Mathieu gets injured we'd just fall back on the next LCB in line.

 

[BBZ8800]

As for him being World Class when being fit then I don't think I've even heard Arsenal or Belgium fans say that, but maybe he can turn it around here if he stays fit.

When fit, in Arsenal and Belgium, he was still somewhat better than fit Mathieu (who was more or less awesome for us), and not to mention how much fit Verm is better than fit Bartra (who still, after all these years, didn't manage to play more than 4-5 crucial matches against bigger teams during his whole career. "Someone" else is always every coach's pick infront of him. Again, there must be a reason for it.)

He's old and he is rarely fit. We won a treble with Bartra playing the 3rd/4th role just fine with Vermaelen not able to play even a single game. He doesn't do anything for the squad but shove Bartra out of it.

We won a treble with Bartra, and Bartra played in all easier La liga, cup and CL group stage matches.
More or less, any La liga defender worth 10 Millions could have done the same job as Bartra.

Verm, again, if fit, is really an upgrade to our defense.
He could, theoretically, play 90 minutes in big matches and we could actually seriously count on him, unlike on Bartra.

 

[DonAK]

@BBZ8800

Don't want to get involved in this Vermaelen v Bartra v Mathieu deal, but I don't get how you can say we can count on Vermaelen and not Bartra? Arsenal didn't count on Vermaelen in the bigger games. He had one decent season as a starter there where most of the hype came because of the goals he scored.

As for Mathieu then he did very well for Valencia as a CB and also performed in games against us, Real Madrid and other teams.

Technically, Vermaelen is a good fit. Tactically? Not so sure. At Arsenal he had the tendency to rush out to leave his defensive duties without judging the situation, in a much lesser degree than the likes of Luiz and Ramos though

 

[Barcaman]

Tbf. Masch does that too after years at Barca.
And don't get me started with Bartra.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

Verm, again, if fit, is really an upgrade to our defense.

But, remember, he's old. Oooold. Oooooooold. Oooooooooooooooold.
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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo......{cough}{cough}{cough}.........oooooooooooooollllllllllllllllldddddddd.
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O. L. D.
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Did I mention he's old?
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So old...d..d..d..d.........

 

[BBZ8800]

@BBZ8800

Don't want to get involved in this Vermaelen v Bartra v Mathieu deal, but I don't get how you can say we can count on Vermaelen and not Bartra? Arsenal didn't count on Vermaelen in the bigger games. He had one decent season as a starter there where most of the hype came because of the goals he scored.

As for Mathieu then he did very well for Valencia as a CB and also performed in games against us, Real Madrid and other teams.

Technically, Vermaelen is a good fit. Tactically? Not so sure. At Arsenal he had the tendency to rush out to leave his defensive duties without judging the situation, in a much lesser degree than the likes of Luiz and Ramos though

I look at it this way:
1. Vermaelen, an NT player and a player who played for years in Arsenal
2. Bartra, a fan's favorite because he is young, Catalan, handsome and devoted to Barca.
The real question since always is: How much our fans are objective regarding Bartra?

Vermaelen is a PROVEN player of NT caliber.
He is injury prone, he is older (lol-ish) and he is not a La Masia product for which we are desperate (remember those posts from some fans dreaming about 11 starters in CL finals and all 11 players to be La Masia products, lol?).

Anyway, we know what Vermaelen CAN do.
Let's say, that he has proved during his career that he can be a 90/100 or 85/100 good defender, against biggest opponents.

Bartra?
What has he ever proven?
-- he is hyped as a future Puyol since always, our future captain, and our fans are sad (year by year) why our beloved isn't getting chances (to turn into a next Puyol, somewhat lol) and why are we buying other (non-La Masia players)?
-- some fans will say that this is not true, but this is how I see Bartra in the last few years, when he played:
1. he is "awesome" in home La liga matches against Levante and similar teams when our opponents come into our half like 4 times during 90 minutes, and their lone striker is immidiately tackled by our players who surround him
-- Bartra is "the lion" in those matches, and then he even shows his fighting spirit by trying to help the attack and trying some deadly through balls
-- sometimes he even scores or make an assist, and people our losing their minds then
2. but what happens in bigger matches?
-- in 90% of bigger matches, he doesn't play
-- "someone else" is always picked before him. Either Pique, Masch, Mathieu, Adriano, and in the future (probably) even not fully fit Vermaelen
-- so, the coaches don't trust him too much (except against Levantes, Hapoels, Ajaxs in group stage and similar. Someone will now say that he played well against Psg in group stage. Yes, it happens. There are some matches against bigger teams when he does get a chance and when he plays well)

Other than that, I remember 10s of matches when he screwed things up
1. a thing which most of our fans are forgetting for some reason, an episode during Tito era again when we lost to Bayern, when Bartra was "afraid" to play in some matches, the pressure was too huge for him and he was breaking during matches
-- there were some reports that he asked a few times: not to play, to stay on the bench, and during a halftime of Bayern's debacle (when we didn't have any other options in the defense), he asked a coach to be subbed, because he couldn't handle the pressure
-- when we consider those facts, maybe people will realize why usually "everyone" is higher on a pecking order than Bartresi. That can't be a coincidence
-- further, all I remember is a lot of blunders (Bale for example), and 100s of excuses from our biased fans like: but he is young, he is learning, he is rusty, he didn't play, he will get better over time

So, in the end, what we have?
-- we have Messi, and 2 players worth 200 Millions in Neymar and Suarez
-- we have huge chances to win some CLs in the next 4-5 years (and we will probably NEVER again in our history have a team as good as today)
-- now, if you are a coach or a sporting director, would you rather splash slightly too much for a proven granny Mathieu, who will cost a lot, but who will do a good job at least in the first 2-3 years here
-- plus, a player like Verm, who, when fit, can be good enough for us to win 1-2-3 CLs in the next 5 years, either by playing in the starting 11, or by being a good squad player in bigger matches, whenever needed

I personally have zero faith in Bartra.
He is good, but only in cup matches and at home against Levante.
Against Real, Bayern and Chelsea, lol, Bartra is a ticking bomb, waiting to ruin Messi's prime years, either by some rookie mistake or because he is not good enough (Bale's mistake).

In the end:
1. Verm is a proven 85-90/100 player
2. Mathieu is a proven 80-85/100 player
3. Bartra is what, at 60/100 at best currently, with a potential to turn into something one day
-- but since he is not improving too well, and since we don't have time to wait "for Bartra", because we have Messi+Ney+Suarez, whose years and trophies are much more important than whether Bartra will or will not turn into something.

Buying Verm and Mathieu and giving less chances to Bartra is imo more or less the same as buying Turan and giving less options to Rafinha, Roberto and Samper.
Those youngsters will or will not turn into something. Time will tell.
Turan is proven, older and NOT La masia product, just like Mathieu and Verm.
But he is here to win/bring us trophies.

Turan/Mathieu/Verm are safe bets.
Youngsters are a gamble.
Again, in Messi's final years, this is NOT a time for a gamble.

When Messi will be gone, and when we will be a crappier team, we will have much more time for all Bartras and Rafinhas of this world.

 

[DonAK]

^ [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]

I get your point, but being an experienced NT player doesn't necessarily mean he's better than Bartra. And Verm is not a safer bet and never was a safe bet when he was signed considering his injury record. I don't think Vermaelen is better, but that's just my take on it.

Mathieu didn't play for France or had at most only one game for his NT when we signed him despite of him having two great seasons at CB for Valencia where he also performed in the big games. He's proven and came us a rotation option.

Arda is proven at NT and Club level.

Vermaelen has NT experience and one good season for Arsenal only. He's NOT proven to be Barca level IMO.

 

[EdmondDantes]

I never rated him that much, I didn't get why we bought him from Arsenal's bench, and then his continued injuries...well, at least he's apparently fit now. Could do a job as a cover CB. I'm not expecting much.

 

[Zangash]

Will definitely hope Lucho does a better job with his rotating of our back line now that we have five CBs who all want to play. If Vermaelen can perform at a level at least as high as Mathieu I'll be happy with him since he's going to be a backup. Bartra is probably going to hurt for this but it's his decision to stick around and risk his career for another season.

 

[BBZ8800]

Will definitely hope Lucho does a better job with his rotating of our back line now that we have five CBs who all want to play. If Vermaelen can perform at a level at least as high as Mathieu I'll be happy with him since he's going to be a backup. Bartra is probably going to hurt for this but it's his decision to stick around and risk his career for another season.

We should rotate more, centerbacks, midfielders, defensive midfielders, and even MSN trio.
This is our 2nd season in a row with the same team aiming for a treble.

We were lucky in the last season regarding injuries and not getting hit by an accumulated fatigue.
Guys like Samper, Arda, Vermaelen, Mathieu, Bartra, Vidal should ensure that we survive this Season on a high level, without crashing around March or April, like Real Madrid and 10s of other teams in a season AFTER their huge previous success, due not to rotating players in the 2nd season (it worked in the 1st season, so they thought that they could repeat the same story in a 2nd season in a row).