iniestaGOAT
Senior Member
We need to change the whole midfield
8 - Pedri
- Thread starter FC433
- Start date
You would think that with the change of setup that for the Atleti game that the team would have done some drills on the attacking phase with Pedri receiving the ball in the hole. Then again the team did get the 6th off, and the day after the 120min Intercity game iirc so not alot of time to work on things for this fixture.
Enough time for Pedri mind you considering he didn't play in La Copa.
FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
Midfield is too much the same. Gavi is a bull but our only bull and he is size of a fly. I wish we had bigger physical presence in games. We are too nice and soft to play against. I am not saying go full Atletico but we need to be at least little bit annoying to play against. Gavi helps with that a bit.
Gnidrologist
Senior Member
As long as Biskvits is there, midfield will be average at best and only good against minnows. Doesn't matter who plays along side him. Pedri does more defensive job than him.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Stage 3 of denial/player development hype.
Stage 1: whatever player does well, it is overblown because he is young
Stage 2: when someone mentions his flaws in the 1st or 2nd year of player's emergence, fans reply: he is young, he will improve, he'll fix his flaws
Stage 3: if a player is here for 2-3-4 years and his flaws are still the same, fans move on from "he is young"-excuse to: "it is someone else's fault"-excuse, like: a coach, bad teammates, injuries or bad system/tactics
Stage 4: we change a lot of coaches, teammates, tactics and the player is still as equally as flawed. Fans then start to accept that he is not as good as they thought in stages 1, 2 and 3.
But fans soon move to the next kid and repeat the same process from 1 to 4.
For example, happened with: Arthur, Frenkie, Dembele, Alena, to some extent Puig, Semedo
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
Typical BBZ "hate all young players, better buy proven stars like Coutinho" post.
Or buy none out of those two options
Coutinho ruined us financially.
Yet Alena, Puig, Oriol, Arthur, Pedri, Gavi and similar didn't cost us a lot of money or wages (except Fati), but we might lose 10-20 years on developing and waiting for wrong players, losing in the same fashion every season and wondering = why is this happening?
So, it is worth to mention this also.
Local gems are cheap.
But if you stuck with wrong choices for 5-10 years, you are in a dead end street also.
Messi983
Senior Member
So what should we do if we shouldn't buy proven players nor develop youngsters?
Players you've mentioned are not the main reason why we are where we are. They are also not the "wrong" players per se and most of them were not given more than a season or two if they didn't show enough. In fact La Masia cultists even complained they didn't play enough but coaches who worked with these players every day knew better and didn't give players like Alena or Mavericky (his fan boys are still bitching about this
) more minutes.
Pedri and Gavi are exceptions here because they were thrown into the water when we had basically no other choice after mismanaging squad for years. In normal circumstances they should be integrated to the first team slowly not starting 50 games at their age. Main problem here is they are in bad environment for their development.
Even a young Messi would struggle to "grow up" in current team. Yes, his talent would still prevail in the end and he'd probably become the best player in the world one day but probably not GOAT. Early in his career he was surrounded by likes of Puyol (the best captain a young player could wish to have on his side), R10 (due to his off the field life probably not the best influence to have on a young player but he still helped Messi immensely), Marquez, Eto'o, Henry, Alves,... All of them besides being great players also having strong characters. And then he also had a coach (the guy in your avatar) who took care of him and rotated him quite a lot in his first season with Giuly which Messi later admitted in interviews he was angry at first because he wanted to play more but later realized Rijkaard was doing this to protect and help him. And later ofc Pep who helped him develop into what he is today.
Back to this day, Pedri and Gavi were and still are growing up in a team alongside other relatively inexperienced kids and their leaders are possibly the worst group of captains this club ever had. Way past their prime, overpaid, entitled, physically done softies (Busi) or even mental midgets (Alba). Only one who has some personality is Pique but he used it the wrong way focusing on hundred other things rather than football before his retirement. Personality wise Messi wasn't the best captain either but he still carried this team on his shoulders for years with his quality. Can't say the same for likes of Busi, in fact younger players around him have to work harder to compensate for his lack of mobility. You can do that (and we did) for Messi (not also for his walking amigo alonside him though) who was still making difference offensively but can't do it for a defensive midfielder whose main job is to DEFEND and RUN which he can't do anymore for years.
Also being in a financial ruin, instable and changing coaches (not always for the best) without a clear plan is far from a good environment for anyone. But OTOH Xavi and Iniesta went through something similar in the Gaspart era and they became arguably the best midfielders in history.
Sure, they were/are probably overrated by some fans (which is normal because we need someone to give us hope) but at the same time it's not Pedri's or Gavi's fault that they are expected to be key players in our midfield because we don't have other/better options. So why should we blame them for being something that kids of their age usually are? Showing glimpses of their potential and what they could become while still being inconsistent. I think they've both shown enough to keep faith and be patient with them. But to fully develop their potential the club should create a better environment for them. Which won't be easy in current financial situation but it's not impossible. Pique's retirement (which is not something we should credit the club for though) was the first step in right direction. Hopefully Busi and (almost impossible) Alba leaving in summer would be the next one.
You can say these are excuses but don't see it like this. I have no problems with people saying Gavi or Pedri had a bad game or pointing out what parts of their game they should improve. They are not perfect (nobody is) and still have to learn a lot which is to be expected. But it's not fair to just give up on them because other players of similar profile (in your opinion which I respect although don't totally agree with) didn't make it because they didn't have something that they seems to have. We should also keep in mind they've achieved more than Xavi or Iniesta did at their age but at the same time also not expect them to become the next Xaviesta because development of players is not always linear. They might not improve much anymore and be out of the club in 2-3 years for all we know but at this time we (both the club making smart moves to improve the team around them and fans supporting them) should keep believing in them until we can find someone better or until they prove our faith in them was deserved.
I don't know you so could be wrong but based on your posts I see you as someone who sees the world in black (mostly that) and white. I always try to find a middle ground. Never go too high or too low with my expectations so can never get too elated or too disappointed. Things in life are never the best they could be nor the worst that we're affraid of will always happen to us.
And when it comes to sport I consider myself as an optimistic realist. I'm aware of current situation and that it won't be easy to get out of it but at the same time also believe we'll do it one day. Barca won't sink like the Titanic and only be ever heard/read of in historic books. I'm also pretty patient which I know most fans are not. Could be next year, in 5 or in 10 years but I'll be here when we'll be on the top again. Hopefully with Pedri, Gavi and some other kids because this would mean we'd probably do it sooner rather than later. In the meantime I'll take little wins and (probably) have (false) hope with some players. It's just how I take things. Maybe it's easier to manage expectations when you expect every player we'll sign will flop but there is no fun in that. And also not fair to the players to not even give them a chance to prove our doubts wrong.
Players you've mentioned are not the main reason why we are where we are. They are also not the "wrong" players per se and most of them were not given more than a season or two if they didn't show enough. In fact La Masia cultists even complained they didn't play enough but coaches who worked with these players every day knew better and didn't give players like Alena or Mavericky (his fan boys are still bitching about this
) more minutes.Pedri and Gavi are exceptions here because they were thrown into the water when we had basically no other choice after mismanaging squad for years. In normal circumstances they should be integrated to the first team slowly not starting 50 games at their age. Main problem here is they are in bad environment for their development.
Even a young Messi would struggle to "grow up" in current team. Yes, his talent would still prevail in the end and he'd probably become the best player in the world one day but probably not GOAT. Early in his career he was surrounded by likes of Puyol (the best captain a young player could wish to have on his side), R10 (due to his off the field life probably not the best influence to have on a young player but he still helped Messi immensely), Marquez, Eto'o, Henry, Alves,... All of them besides being great players also having strong characters. And then he also had a coach (the guy in your avatar
) who took care of him and rotated him quite a lot in his first season with Giuly which Messi later admitted in interviews he was angry at first because he wanted to play more but later realized Rijkaard was doing this to protect and help him. And later ofc Pep who helped him develop into what he is today.Back to this day, Pedri and Gavi were and still are growing up in a team alongside other relatively inexperienced kids and their leaders are possibly the worst group of captains this club ever had. Way past their prime, overpaid, entitled, physically done softies (Busi) or even mental midgets (Alba). Only one who has some personality is Pique but he used it the wrong way focusing on hundred other things rather than football before his retirement. Personality wise Messi wasn't the best captain either but he still carried this team on his shoulders for years with his quality. Can't say the same for likes of Busi, in fact younger players around him have to work harder to compensate for his lack of mobility. You can do that (and we did) for Messi (not also for his walking amigo alonside him though) who was still making difference offensively but can't do it for a defensive midfielder whose main job is to DEFEND and RUN which he can't do anymore for years.
Also being in a financial ruin, instable and changing coaches (not always for the best) without a clear plan is far from a good environment for anyone. But OTOH Xavi and Iniesta went through something similar in the Gaspart era and they became arguably the best midfielders in history.
Sure, they were/are probably overrated by some fans (which is normal because we need someone to give us hope) but at the same time it's not Pedri's or Gavi's fault that they are expected to be key players in our midfield because we don't have other/better options. So why should we blame them for being something that kids of their age usually are? Showing glimpses of their potential and what they could become while still being inconsistent. I think they've both shown enough to keep faith and be patient with them. But to fully develop their potential the club should create a better environment for them. Which won't be easy in current financial situation but it's not impossible. Pique's retirement (which is not something we should credit the club for though) was the first step in right direction. Hopefully Busi and (almost impossible) Alba leaving in summer would be the next one.
You can say these are excuses but don't see it like this. I have no problems with people saying Gavi or Pedri had a bad game or pointing out what parts of their game they should improve. They are not perfect (nobody is) and still have to learn a lot which is to be expected. But it's not fair to just give up on them because other players of similar profile (in your opinion which I respect although don't totally agree with) didn't make it because they didn't have something that they seems to have. We should also keep in mind they've achieved more than Xavi or Iniesta did at their age but at the same time also not expect them to become the next Xaviesta because development of players is not always linear. They might not improve much anymore and be out of the club in 2-3 years for all we know but at this time we (both the club making smart moves to improve the team around them and fans supporting them) should keep believing in them until we can find someone better or until they prove our faith in them was deserved.
I don't know you so could be wrong but based on your posts I see you as someone who sees the world in black (mostly that) and white. I always try to find a middle ground. Never go too high or too low with my expectations so can never get too elated or too disappointed. Things in life are never the best they could be nor the worst that we're affraid of will always happen to us.
And when it comes to sport I consider myself as an optimistic realist. I'm aware of current situation and that it won't be easy to get out of it but at the same time also believe we'll do it one day. Barca won't sink like the Titanic and only be ever heard/read of in historic books. I'm also pretty patient which I know most fans are not. Could be next year, in 5 or in 10 years but I'll be here when we'll be on the top again. Hopefully with Pedri, Gavi and some other kids because this would mean we'd probably do it sooner rather than later. In the meantime I'll take little wins and (probably) have (false) hope with some players. It's just how I take things. Maybe it's easier to manage expectations when you expect every player we'll sign will flop but there is no fun in that.
And also not fair to the players to not even give them a chance to prove our doubts wrong.
Catta
Senior Member
BBZ still shitting on Pedri and comparing him with those bums, after he proved him wrong countless times.
First it was if he was any good he would be called up for the national team, after he done that, the excuse was Spain has a shit generation. Next was if he was any good he would be praised by others not only by Barca fans, he won the golden boy and kopa awards, and the excuse was the awards are staged and corrupt.
First it was if he was any good he would be called up for the national team, after he done that, the excuse was Spain has a shit generation. Next was if he was any good he would be praised by others not only by Barca fans, he won the golden boy and kopa awards, and the excuse was the awards are staged and corrupt.
snowy
Well-known member
great post by messimc ^
also, Pedri's defensive contribution is often overlooked. He runs like crazy and he runs smart
his game is very safe atm and void of waste which is also why he brings a lot of stability to our mf.
2 solutions: either combine him with a high risk flair AM who creates tons of chances or let him take more chances as he's got all the tools in his quiver.
once he ups his risk plays and takes more shots at goal, he'd easily be Top 5 CM in da ... UNIVERSE
also, Pedri's defensive contribution is often overlooked. He runs like crazy and he runs smart
his game is very safe atm and void of waste which is also why he brings a lot of stability to our mf.
2 solutions: either combine him with a high risk flair AM who creates tons of chances or let him take more chances as he's got all the tools in his quiver.
once he ups his risk plays and takes more shots at goal, he'd easily be Top 5 CM in da ... UNIVERSE
FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
Pedri: "Every time we score the 1-0, it's like we subconsciously think that the match is over. We need to address that."
He said it. Some fans here knew.
He said it. Some fans here knew.
FCBfan22
Senior Member
He pointed that out before the coach. So, the question is... Does the coach know that?
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