9 - Luis Suárez - v1

[barcetia]

it's not a debate, tbh.

it's an event that 90% of people decided to take seriously and 10% decided to use as an excuse to act like jibbering retards.

and you don't debate with jibbering retards.

why are you acting like Evra is your little brother taking it so fucking seriously?

you're clearly a 5 year old in your head, being unable to disagree with anybody and everyone has to suck on your dick for you to be satisfied.

 

[Metaphysical]

tbh there's plenty of people who agree with Suarez's suspension who are acting like jibbering retards.

no doubt.

but the other side is almost exclusively jibbering retardation.

Manuel Traquete said it best, this has trivialized the issue more than anything else. There was an opportunity to take a stand and everyone involved managed to turn it into a sideshow. This will do nothing to take racism out of football.

that's no one's fault but Liverpool's. they've acted the cunt from minute one, and Suarez either acted the cunt right with them or was sucked into their whirlpool of cuntery (I know which I suspect). they've not taken the issue seriously. and even in the face of a guilty verdict they've been belligerent and continued to make this seem as if it was about club bias, institutional bias, and one player holding a grudge and lying to the extreme because he didn't get an apology for a foul he suffered.

this is not a "both sides are as bad as each other" situation. there is quite definitely one side to blame for this becoming the farce it has been.

the FA, Evra & United have behaved with the dignity the situation deserves.

 

[Metaphysical]

why are you acting like Evra is your little brother taking it so fucking seriously?

because racism is a serious issue you fucking spanner.

you're clearly a 5 year old in your head, being unable to disagree with anybody and everyone has to suck on your dick for you to be satisfied.

I have a problem with stupidity.

no one has to suck my dick, they just have to not be a fucking moron. I can disagree and debate with people as long as they carry themselves with respectability and actually speak with coherence.

I understand this is asking too much from the likes of you, so I'll just tell you to jog the fuck on and go bother someone else.

thanks.

 

[Manuel Traquete]

I trust the legal system but i also believe no system is invulnerable to a good defence lawyer. That said, i don't think John Terry is a racist even though in the heat of the moment he may have said some unforgivable things. The way i see it, people categorise/identify others through visual means.

For example, the other day this huge fat woman bumped into me. I literally bounced off her and onto some tables where i ended up getting hurt. I refer to her as "the fat bitch" thereon to my friends. I expect John Terry couldn't find any other visual identifier for Ferdinand and therefore resorted to referring to his colour. I'm sure if he'd been fat, or ginger, or French he'd have used those in place of "black".

Yeah, I don't think Terry is necessarily a racist, but he should still be punished if found guilty, beyond reasonable doubt, of using racial slurs. No doubt about that, heat of the moment or not.

I'm glad the case will go to the CPS though, we need at least a semblance of credibility restored to the fight against racism. The Suarez case frankly made me lost any hope of eradicating racism in football in the near future. Not so much because of the farcical report, but because of people's general attitude towards the case. The posts you see on this and other forums are unfortunately a pretty accurate sum of people's general views on the matter.

A lot of people do see racism as a trivial issue, and while some of them do so on purpose to serve their agenda, the majority really doesn't grasp the enormity of the issue. That a decision on the balance of probabilities seems to be widely accepted really says it all. No matter how many campaigns there are, racism can't be fought while people's mentality and awareness doesn't change and that can't be done overnight, and there frankly seems to be no effort to do it at all.

Terry's case going to the CPS will at least ensure that he'll be judged fairly and based on real evidence, as it must always be the case when the issue is racism/racial abuse. I'm pretty sure that the CPS won't make a mockery of racism by deciding things like Terry is guilty because Ferdinand is a more impressive witness. We'll see racial abuse treated as the serious issue it is and that's at least something to be happy about.

 

[barcetia]

but it wasen't racism. it was just Evra trying to get Suaréz(his archrivals best player) banned for a few games so they'd drop points. nothing else. read the post of the University teacher.


wonder what you would say if Phil Jones had said it.

 

[Metaphysical]

the last two posts...

I'm out.

no idea why I came back in here tbh. I guess coz I saw Nolan had posted.

ah well.

 

[Manuel Traquete]

tbh there's plenty of people who agree with Suarez's suspension who are acting like jibbering retards.

Manuel Traquete said it best, this has trivialized the issue more than anything else. There was an opportunity to take a stand and everyone involved managed to turn it into a sideshow. This will do nothing to take racism out of football.

Yeah, if anything this will only encourage racism in football, setting a quite dangerous precedent.

People were interested in everything except finding out what actually happened and what actually was said, which we will probably never find out. We have like six different accounts of events, none of them backed up by any facts or evidence. And yet the accused was punished because the accuser was "a more impressive witness".

This is not taking a stand against racism, it is trivializing the issue, no more no less.

 

[10Rivaldo]

because he didn't.

he called him sudamericano, not sudaca.

the whole "sudaca" claim was from one of Liverpool's leaks. in the official report it's only mentioned to clarify that sudamericano isn't an insult.

Luis Suarez called Evra black. It's not an offensive word but he used it in a condescending way. If Evra called Suarez South American in a condescending way, then it deserves equal punishment.

 

[Ambrosia]

Yeah, I don't think Terry is necessarily a racist, but he should still be punished if found guilty, beyond reasonable doubt, of using racial slurs. No doubt about that, heat of the moment or not.

I'm glad the case will go to the CPS though, we need at least a semblance of credibility restored to the fight against racism. The Suarez case frankly made me lost any hope of eradicating racism in football in the near future. Not so much because of the farcical report, but because of people's general attitude towards the case. The posts you see on this and other forums are unfortunately a pretty accurate sum of people's general views on the matter.

A lot of people do see racism as a trivial issue, and while some of them do so on purpose to serve their agenda, the majority really doesn't grasp the enormity of the issue. That a decision on the balance of probabilities seems to be widely accepted really says it all. No matter how many campaigns there are, racism can't be fought while people's mentality and awareness doesn't change and that can't be done overnight, and there frankly seems to be no effort to do it at all.

Terry's case going to the CPS will at least ensure that he'll be judged fairly and based on real evidence, as it must always be the case when the issue is racism/racial abuse. I'm pretty sure that the CPS won't make a mockery of racism by deciding things like Terry is guilty because Ferdinand is a more impressive witness. We'll see racial abuse treated as the serious issue it is and that's at least something to be happy about.

Indeed.

Interestingly, the CPS only charge you if they feel "on the balance of probabilities" it can be proven you committed an offence. Terry has already fulfilled the standard of proof that resulted in Suarez's ban. So even if Terry is found not guilty, technically the FA should have enough to ban him, not necessarily for racism but "abusive language that referred to colour" offence that Suarez was charged and convicted of. Really, there should be no question of Terry getting an eventual ban.

From the information that's coming out in today's papers, it looks as if Liverpool are looking to persuade the FA to increase the legal burden of proof to beyond reasonable doubt (coincidentally, i can see the FA taking that up right if/when Terry gets off). Have seen some good arguments for why they wouldn't necessarily be a good thing, i.e. it'll make it a lot more difficult for black players that genuinely experience racist abuse to report it but then on the other hand, with the number of television camera's in football these days, people watching live, players on the pitch, racism should be a lot more easier to spot? hence why increasing the burden of proof isn't so bad when it comes to football imo.

In regards to what other fans are saying, i must say i find it a tad insulting that people are so willing to accept that Liverpool will put their reputation on line for a racist. What is the purpose of that? the easiest thing for Liverpool to do would have been to throw Suarez to the lions. Has anyone not just stopped and thought "Liverpool must actually genuinely believe in Suarez's innocence to put up with so much crap from an amazing amount of nobodies that keep finding themselves in the newspapers". There are some things which are a lot more important than tribalism, and racism is one of those things. Other things much important than tribalism is an innocent man being convicted of an abhorrent hate crime.

 

[Raed]

the last two posts...

I'm out.

no idea why I came back in here tbh. I guess coz I saw Nolan had posted.

ah well.

lolol

i have no idea what people are still talking about. the FA might have dealt with this situation in a farcical manner, but i dont think anyone here still doubts that evras claims were made up. so suarez deserves his 8 match ban and thats the bottom line.

now people will still continue to argue that the report was not legit, which is true. but had liverpool dealt with this properly, in fact all they had to do was shut the fuck up and not react at all, they would have been able to put through an appeal. but typical 'we are the victims' cries in public early on made them look stupid. really really stupid. now they have nothing to stand on, no one listening, and its their loss.

 

[La LL]

they're not the same thing, you div.

It has nothing to do with the word, but more with the sentiment behind it. That's how it is with languages. Language is neutral.

If a friend of mine calls me a fucktard then I don't give a crap. If some guy I don't know calls me a fucktard then I get pissed.

That's the case here. Sudamericano isn't a slur like the N-word but I'm very sure Evra said it in a condescending way that was highly degrading.

Do you think when Suarez said "negro", Evra suddenly started thinking back to the conditions of African slaves during colonial days? Do you think he thought long and hard about where the word stems from, the historical pain associated with it and why it's considered profanity? No. He knew instinctively that it was a pejorative because of sentiment behind it, undoubtedly guided by how it was said and the tensions at the time between the two.

I don't condone racism because I don't believe in racism or racial superiority. But in this case, it was two-sided. Both called the other something degrading and meant it to be degrading. The only difference is that what Suarez said was a word close enough to another word that can found in the un-official Little Black Book of Slurs.

The ensuing drama on the other hand is an entirely other matter.

 

[zanela]

Also, what's this fight against racism you mention? This decision does nothing to fight against racism, it PROMOTES and ENCOURAGES it, it trivializes racism. How long until we see another player making a similar accusation and the accused player convicted with no evidence. The only way to fight against racism is by taking it seriously, not by making a mockery of it.

It works both ways, don't you think? If you're letting off the accused due to lack of concrete evidence, it may encourage further such incidents whereby any player can make a racist slur to a fellow professional in isolation, knowing that without concrete proof he stands to win.

I don't necessarily believe any legal action or steps can completely eradicate this issue. It will act as a deterrent for a period, but human temper/nature is such that there will always be such cases, even if done quietly. Change starts from Self-sensitizing, education, and awareness on the subject.

Luis Suarez called Evra black. It's not an offensive word but he used it in a condescending way. If Evra called Suarez South American in a condescending way, then it deserves equal punishment.

Firstly, did he call him South American in retaliation? Is inflicting harm when provoked/or acting in defense considered as grave as the primary offense? The more learned ones will 've to fill me on this.

Still, i would say being called by the colour of your skin condescendingly is more offensive than using a more generic(if i can call that) term in a similar tone.

For eg: Someone insulting me by my skin colour/religion i practise (both of which very personal) is way more offensive than being called a S. Asian. I don't consider them equal for it to deserve equal punishment.

 

[Dinho]

People defending the racist cheat.

He's not racist, he just doesn't like black people.

 

[Dinho]

View attachment 4344

Atta boy, Glen.

 

[La Furia]

People defending the racist cheat.

He's not racist, he just doesn't like black people.

Way to add nothing to the discussion.