9 - Luis Suárez - v1

[DucdeOrléans]

Well, no. Men are not programmed to get out there and fuckfuckfuck, that's a pretty poor excuse for infidelity.

Men (straight men at least) are "programmed" to feel attracted by women, but women are also "programmed" to feel attracted by men. Attraction is natural, infidelity isn't. Let's not turn men WANT to fuck around into they have the biological need...

It can definitely qualify as scumming. If a certain man can't control is sex drive, then he shouldn't commit to someone in the first place. If footballers just want to bang as many women as possible, they're perfectly entitled to it, but in that case they shouldn't get into a serious relationship. I don't see how Rooney/Terry/etc.... actions can be anything other than scummy.

And yes, women are promiscuous too.I don't have any official stats, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were more cases of women sleeping around than men. Men are just more bashed for it.

Spot on.

 

[10Rivaldo]

The things I learn in Luis Suarez thread.

 

[Metaphysical]

and what is the point of feeling "attracted" to a woman? what purpose does physical attraction serve? it makes you want to fuck.

I can't have this conversation with someone who thinks Judeo-Christian morality is the same as (or more powerful than) man's biological urge to spread his seed. it's like talking Borges with a child. they'll know the words, but completely fail to grasp the meaning.

 

[La Furia]

I would like to meet the child who is familiar even with the words of Borges.

 

[Manuel Traquete]

and what is the point of feeling "attracted" to a woman? what purpose does physical attraction serve? it makes you want to fuck.

I can't have this conversation with someone who thinks Judeo-Christian morality is the same as (or more powerful than) man's biological urge to spread his seed. it's like talking Borges with a child. they'll know the words, but completely fail to grasp the meaning.

You got it right in the first paragraph. It makes you WANT to fuck. But men have free will, that's what separates us from animals. There's no possible excuse not to respect your commitments.

Judeo-Christian morality? What? I'm not a Christian or Jew nor do I uphold any kind religious morality. I have nothing against you making stuff about me based on absolutely nothing for purely rhetorical purposes, but it adds nothing relevant to the discussion. It's just a cheap way to try and discredit me to rubbish my point of view, which is a common yet ineffective way to defend an argument. It's very disappointing.

I know all about the "biological urge to spread the seed", it is a fact that men tend to have huge sexual drives. And I have nothing against men who shag many women, well on the contrary. That is natural and actually great. However, doing so when you have a commitment/a family is scummy, there's no two ways about it.

You're just making excuses. If you (you=men in general) can't control your urges, just don't get into a serious relationship/don't get married/build a family. If you do, sleeping around obviously becomes scummy.

 

[Metaphysical]

You got it right in the first paragraph. It makes you WANT to fuck. But men have free will, that's what separates us from animals. There's no possible excuse not to respect your commitments.

free will isn't the same thing as not blindly following every biological impulse.

Judeo-Christian morality? What? I'm not a Christian or Jew nor do I uphold any religious morality. I have nothing against you making stuff about me based on absolutely nothing for purely rhetorical purposes, but it adds nothing relevant to the discussion. It's just a cheap way to try and discredit me to rubbish my point of view, which is a common yet ineffective way to defend an argument.

you're talking about loyalty to one sexual partner trumping biological urges, and using the words "infidelity" and "urges" - that, my friend, is Judeo-Christian morality.

and I'm not trying to rubbish your point-of-view. you're perfectly entitled to it and I bet more on here would agree with you than me, but I can't stand it. hence my comment.

I know all about the "biological urge to spread the seed", it is a fact that men tend to have huge sex drives. And I have nothing against men who shag many women, well on the contrary. That is natural. However, doing so when you have a commitment/a family is scummy, there's no two ways about it.

You're just making excuses. If you (you=men in general) can't control your urges, just don't get into a serious relationship/don't get married/build a family. If you do, sleeping around obviously becomes scummy.

nope. no excuses. just telling it like it is.

to call something scummy means it has to be really low. and breaking a commitment (what kind? a marriage? an engagement? a boyfriend/girlfriend thing?) because of an immense biological urge doesn't cut the mustard on its own. if you add in other elements then, yes, fucking around can be very scummy. but simply cheating on its own isn't scummy.

I'm not saying it's good (not saying it's bad, either), but it isn't scummy.

 

[La Furia]

Having Judeo-Christian values doesn't mean you are a Jew or Christian, it means you are from a country whose culture is at least partially derived from Judaism or Christianity. Portugal is one of those.

I'm neither myself, but I know that like it or not, my concept of morality at least originates in Christianity, because that's what society taught me growing up. For one thing, the first thing I think of when I think of "marriage" is a pact between two consenting adults to make a family together and be faithful to one another. That's a Judeo-Christian concept.

 

[Fourteen]

I'm sorry, I appear to have taken a wrong turning somewhere...Is this the Luis Suarez thread?

 

[La Furia]

I'm sorry, I appear to have taken a wrong turning somewhere...Is this the Luis Suarez thread?

Did I mention Luis Suarez is one of the 10 best players in the world, and should be a Barcelona target instead of Señor Stupid Hair?

 

[Metaphysical]

I'm sorry, I appear to have taken a wrong turning somewhere...Is this the Luis Suarez thread?

well we found an interesting subject... ...and dove right in.

 

[Manuel Traquete]

free will isn't the same thing as not blindly following every biological impulse.



you're talking about loyalty to one sexual partner trumping biological urges, and using the words "infidelity" and "urges" - that, my friend, is Judeo-Christian morality.

No, not at all. I don't think men/women should be loyal to one sexual partner, that'd actually be extremely hypocritical of me. However, you should be loyal to one sexual partner if you commit to him/her. That's the important part here. If you don't commit to anyone, you can sleep with 100 women...

But if you do, it is scummy. No one forces men to commit to women, it's their choice. If they feel the need to sleep around, just don't commit to anyone.

As for more people agreeing with you than me, I'm not sure about that. Maybe...

nope. no excuses. just telling it like it is.

to call something scummy means it has to be really low. and breaking a commitment (what kind? a marriage? an engagement? a boyfriend/girlfriend thing?) because of an immense biological urge doesn't cut the mustard on its own. if you add in other elements then, yes, fucking around can be very scummy. but simply cheating on its own isn't scummy.

I'm not saying it's good (not saying it's bad, either), but it isn't scummy.

I respect your view, although I profoundly disagree.

Out of curiosity, if your girlfriend/wife ever cheated on you, would you be willing to forgive her/ignore it based on the fact that humans are sexually beings and she couldn't resist the urge*? For the sake of consistency, you should accept something like this as natural. And I know this is a very general example (no details), but just asked out of curiosity.

*Let's not pretend that only men have a huge sexual drive, women do too. Humans are sexual being by nature, "programmed" to mate and spread their seed.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

Partially agree with Meta. I do not think his words were meant to put Manuel in a box, but I do think marriage, infidelity, etc are overrated values with Christian roots ( they will survive christianity though ). People should not give their word ( or hold on to it) when it conflicts with what they want. Thank god we re no saints

 

[Metaphysical]

No, not at all. I don't think men/women should be loyal to one sexual partner, that'd actually be extremely hypocritical of me. However, you should be loyal to one sexual partner if you commit to him/her. That's the important part here. If you don't commit to anyone, you can sleep with 100 women...

But if you do, it is scummy. No one forces men to commit to women, it's their choice. If they feel the need to sleep around, just don't commit to anyone.

well what are you talking about here? what kind of commitment? marriage? engagement? kids? etc.

I respect your view, although I profoundly disagree.

Out of curiosity, if your girlfriend/wife ever cheated on you, would you be willing to forgive her/ignore it based on the fact that humans are sexually beings and she couldn't resist the urge*? For the sake of consistency, you should accept something like this as natural. And I know this is a very general example (no details), but just asked out of curiosity.

*Let's not pretend that only men have a huge sexual drive, women do too. Humans are sexual being by nature, "programmed" to mate and spread their seed.

this isn't about having a huge sex drive, you're confusing the issue. you could have a normal or even weak sex drive and still, as a man, be biologically constructed in opposition to monogamy. woman are not so constructed. they are more inclined to seek a mate to settle down with. that's not to say they won't go seeking better seed if their current fails to provide, but their urges aren't as strong as men. that much is evident.

and I've never been cheated on, so I wouldn't know. I may be forgiving, I may not, it all depends on the situation really.

and even if I wasn't forgiving, I certainly wouldn't consider her scum for fucking around on its own.

 

[Manuel Traquete]

Having Judeo-Christian values doesn't mean you are a Jew or Christian, it means you are from a country whose culture is at least partially derived from Judaism or Christianity. Portugal is one of those.

I'm neither myself, but I know that like it or not, my concept of morality at least originates in Christianity, because that's what society taught me growing up. For one thing, the first thing I think of when I think of "marriage" is a pact between two consenting adults to make a family together and be faithful to one another. That's a Judeo-Christian concept.

Fair enough. Portugal's culture is indeed derived from Christianity.

But that has little to do with my point of view on this subject. It's just called not being a hypocrite imo. If my girlfriend/wife ever cheated on me, I wouldn't just accept it on the basis that she couldn't resist her urges. Therefore I must apply the same standard to me/men.

 

[La Furia]

Fair enough. Portugal's culture is indeed derived from Christianity.

But that has little to do with my point of view on this subject. It's just called not being a hypocrite imo. If my girlfriend/wife ever cheated on me, I wouldn't just accept it on the basis that she couldn't resist her urges. Therefore I must apply the same standard to me/men.

Well I'm the same way, I like to think I wouldn't cheat on someone but I've never been in the position where it would be hard to resist. I don't believe in cheating on your partner, but I don't believe in sticking in a relationship for the sake of it either.

I'm not sure how I'd react if a girl cheated on me, as it has never happened. I probably wouldn't be able to forgive them, but I wouldn't think they are a scum. But I'm paranoid and have low self esteem so I don't think I'd be able to forgive. And I wouldn't expect to be pardoned if I was the guilty one.

But that sort of thinking is partially derived from culture. We think for ourselves, I know I've been exposed to alternatives and I'm sure you have too, there's some values that you are raised around that will always continue to impact ones concept of right and wrong. Even though I don't believe in long term monogamy, I still like the idea of exclusive relationships for instance.