9 - Luis Suárez - v1

[Manuel Traquete]

well what are you talking about here? what kind of commitment? marriage? engagement? kids? etc.

Any kind of commitment, really. If there's a family and kids involved, it obviously becomes worse because you have a responsibility towards them.

But the point is men aren't forced to commit. If they do, sleeping around becomes wrong.

this isn't about having a huge sex drive, you're confusing the issue. you could have a normal or even weak sex drive and still, as a man, be biologically constructed in opposition to monogamy. woman are not so constructed. they are more inclined to seek a mate to settle down with. that's not to say they won't go seeking better seed if their current fails to provide, but their urges aren't as strong as men. that much is evident.

and I've never been cheated on, so I wouldn't know. I may be forgiving, I may not, it all depends on the situation really.

and even if I wasn't forgiving, I certainly wouldn't consider her scum for fucking around on its own.

Well, I'm not an expert on those issues (whether men/women are more constructed for monogamy/poligamy) so I can't really tell.

But the principle is the same. Both have urges (regardless of who has the bigger urge), both are sexual beings by nature. But both have a responsibility once they commit to each other.

You make a good point that it isn't straightforward. There's fucking around and fucking around (different circumstances/situations). But it's hard to argue that, as a general principle, it isn't wrong.

Take extreme examples like Terry and Rooney. Is there any way we can look at it that makes it look anything other than scummy?

 

[dalitis8]

Things are very simple here.

When women played no direct economic role, men could treat them more or less like they pleased. In those societies, women could not complain over their husband's infidelity. Especially if they were rich. Nowadays, women who are economically independent (or who can find an equal or even better man), will not tolerate infidelity (no matter what meta claims, no woman things that being cheated upon is alright)

It is only deeply financially dependent women that today will swallow cheating. You cheat on a well-to-do, educated, independent woman nowadays, and try and get away with it...

 

[La Furia]

I don't think Meta was implying that women tolerate or should tolerate cheating, at least I hope not.

 

[Metaphysical]

I don't think Meta was implying that women tolerate or should tolerate cheating, at least I hope not.

not at all. women are free to make their own minds up. some will forgive, some will not. that's their call.

my point is that I don't necessarily consider it scummy for a man to have cheated. it, like pretty much everything else, depends on context.

for example: I don't think Rooney was scummy for banging prostitutes when he was 17 or whatever, cheating on his girlfriend in the process. but banging prostitutes while his wife was pregnant with his child? now that's scummy. Giggs cheating on his wife with Imogen Thomas? not scummy. Giggs cheating on his wife with his brother's wife? molten scummery.

you see where I'm coming from, Manuel?

 

[Manuel Traquete]

Well I'm the same way, I like to think I wouldn't cheat on someone but I've never been in the position where it would be hard to resist. I don't believe in cheating on your partner, but I don't believe in sticking in a relationship for the sake of it either.

I'm not sure how I'd react if a girl cheated on me, as it has never happened. I probably wouldn't be able to forgive them, but I wouldn't think they are a scum. But I'm paranoid and have low self esteem so I don't think I'd be able to forgive. And I wouldn't expect to be pardoned if I was the guilty one.

But that sort of thinking is partially derived from culture. We think for ourselves, I know I've been exposed to alternatives and I'm sure you have too, there's some values that you are raised around that will always continue to impact ones concept of right and wrong. Even though I don't believe in long term monogamy, I still like the idea of exclusive relationships for instance.

Yes, I haven't been in that position either. I haven't been in a serious relationship in like forever. I'm 18, I'm a university student and I'm living uni life to the max if you know what I mean. My views on this subject are mostly based on principle, not personal experience. But I'd like to believe that when I'm involved in a serious relationship in the future, I'll be able to be faithful to my partner. And if I don't, I surely won't expect to be forgiven based on any biological reasons.

I mostly agree with your last paragraph, my views are surely influenced by the culture in which I was brought up. My views on monogamy/poligamy/exclusive relationships are perhaps unusual. I don't believe in either per se (I don't think any of them is necessarily the right approach). I would never commit to someone just for the sake of it, I'd have to really have strong feelings to that girl/feel like it could work. Otherwise, I like my "freedom". In short, a guy sleeping with 100 women and committing to one is as "right" to me as a guy committing to one woman for life. Committing and then breaking the commitment is wrong though, imo. But then again I'm 18, what do I know ?

 

[Manuel Traquete]

not at all. women are free to make their own minds up. some will forgive, some will not. that's their call.

my point is that I don't necessarily consider it scummy for a man to have cheated. it, like pretty much everything else, depends on context.

for example: I don't think Rooney was scummy for banging prostitutes when he was 17 or whatever, cheating on his girlfriend in the process. but banging prostitutes while his wife was pregnant with his child? now that's scummy. Giggs cheating on his wife with Imogen Thomas? not scummy. Giggs cheating on his wife with his brother's wife? molten scummery.

you see where I'm coming from, Manuel?

Yes indeed. I don't completely agree, but I'm glad we found some common ground. I'm surprised actually, most of my recent discussions on BarcaForum have basically been like talking to walls (posters who just disregard your points, keep repeating the same thing over and over), glad this one was actually productive

As for Rooney, yes when he did it at 17 it was not scummy. I mean, he was a kid after all. But you still agree that it was wrong, right? Not scummy, but surely not the right thing to do.

I agree about the rest. And I might have abused the word "scummy". You'll have to forgive me, English is only my third language, my sensitivity towards some particular words/phrases and their strength/impact might not be the best.

Cheating isn't necessarily scummy, but I'd say it's always wrong. Regardless of any biologic urges, it's never right to break a serious commitment in that way, especially if family/kids are involved.

 

[gingerless]

huge debate over the moral obligations of fucking.

this on filthy rich football stars.

in a luis suarez thread.

...only on barcaforum

 

[La Furia]

I think the best part of this is that Luis Suarez was never to my knowledge involved in a cheating scandal.

 

[barcaboy15]

Honestly, what the fuck!?

I come on here to see what people are saying about Suarez's 4 goals and I gotta wade through about 10 pages of people arguing whether it's OK for men to cheat or not?

I mean seriously, what the fuck?

 

[La Furia]

To be fair, there's only so much that can be said about just how good this guy is.

I mean in less than 3 years he's going to be replicating the Maracanazo after all.

 

[yusuf]

like how awesome is this guy?? reminds me of the mentality of a hockey player

 

[barcaboy15]

If we can leave that fascinating discussion on promiscuity for a while, here is a video of his 4 goals:

 

[yusuf]

that 2nd goal is just all about how awesome suarez is and i think i saw martin with that duttty assist on his 3rd goal

 

[Metaphysical]

To be fair, there's only so much that can be said about just how good this guy is.

I mean in less than 3 years he's going to be replicating the Maracanazo after all.

I'll be amazed if he can pull that off, if only because Brazil are more likely to get dumped out by a European team playing 4231.

but if it happens, it will make Uruguay the most epic trolls ever. right now you haveta give that to West Germany for preventing Hungary and the Netherlands from spectacular victories in '54 and '74... but doing ANOTHER Maracanazo? bananas.

bit disappointed you don't want Forlan to do it as his last act on a football pitch, though.

 

[Metaphysical]

Yes indeed. I don't completely agree, but I'm glad we found some common ground. I'm surprised actually, most of my recent discussions on BarcaForum have basically been like talking to walls (posters who just disregard your points, keep repeating the same thing over and over), glad this one was actually productive

As for Rooney, yes when he did it at 17 it was not scummy. I mean, he was a kid after all. But you still agree that it was wrong, right? Not scummy, but surely not the right thing to do.

I agree about the rest. And I might have abused the word "scummy". You'll have to forgive me, English is only my third language, my sensitivity towards some particular words/phrases and their strength/impact might not be the best.

Cheating isn't necessarily scummy, but I'd say it's always wrong. Regardless of any biologic urges, it's never right to break a serious commitment in that way, especially if family/kids are involved.

it's all good my man. no worries.