9 - Luis Suárez - v1

[La Furia]

Woah there, comparing them with American southern whites?

I have no doubt Suarez and his defenders are racially insensitive and selfish. The lip service might sound similar, but whites in the South were using that as a way to deprive blacks and keeep them separated. Until Suarez requests separate bathrooms for his black teammates that's ridiculous hyperbole, and I think you know it.

Uruguayans are a lot like Argentinians, they are notoriously ignorant and insensitive to racial differences, Uruguay has a higher proportion of African ancestry than Argentina, but it's still a case where race is taken as something of a joke issue, which is definitely a bad thing. If Suarez said "negrito", it was as a wind up, but it's the same association as calling Ronaldinho "gordo" would be a wind up. It's likely he was making fun of the way he looks, not necessarily racial undertones - pure, dumb, ignorance.

This is a fucking stupid thing to defend, I completely agree with you that "ignorance is not an excuse", but you might as well be calling Suarez and the nation of Uruguay nazis while you are at it, because I'm sure white nationalists would say something similar - that doesn't mean their grounds for doing so are the same, at all.

Though at the same time while I wonder if you would be less upset about this had the teams been reverse, you are one of the few consistent people here in taking a stand against racism. A lot of the same people cursing Suarez now were defending Sergio Ramos for wearing blackface, when it's remarkable how similar the situation is.

 

[Metaphysical]

Woah there, comparing them with American southern whites?

I have no doubt Suarez and his defenders are racially insensitive and selfish. The lip service might sound similar, but whites in the South were using that as a way to deprive blacks and keeep them separated. Until Suarez requests separate bathrooms for his black teammates that's ridiculous hyperbole, and I think you know it.

of course I know it. I wasn't comparing them ffs.

the language is similar, that's all I'm saying.

I know they're just racially insensitive, but they're making themselves look like massive racists all because they're so desperate to stick up for a guy who has racially abused someone. it's fucking pathetic. even if Suarez was blissfully ignorant (and let's be real, we know he wasn't) he still racially abused Evra and should just take his punishment and learn from it. not subject us all to this maudlin victimisation bullshit.

Though at the same time while I wonder if you would be less upset about this had the teams been reverse, you are one of the few consistent people here in taking a stand against racism. A lot of the same people cursing Suarez now were defending Sergio Ramos for wearing blackface, when it's remarkable how similar the situation is.

the key difference is Ramos wore blackface only during that ceremony, in that context. he didn't just wear it casually around Madrid or Seville. he didn't go to England or the USA (where blackface has horrible connotations) and black it up. it's still fucked up, but he could legitimately play the cultural differences card.

and it really wouldn't matter who Suarez played for. racism is bullshit.

 

[La Furia]

At the same time, Suarez has black ancestry while Ramos does not. They are remarkably comparable, "ceremonies" deserve no more reverence than the "boys will be boys" environment of a football pitch.

Also Meta, do you know anything about the claim that, during their back and forth, Evra called Suarez a "Sudaca"? I'm hearing it from Uruguay supporters so I don't know if there's any truth to this, but That's a far more offensive term than "Negrito"....

 

[Metaphysical]

Also Meta, do you know anything about the claim that, during their back and forth, Evra called Suarez a "Sudaca"? I'm hearing it from Uruguay supporters so I don't know if there's any truth to this, but That's a far more offensive term than "Negrito"....

I've heard rumours about that, yeah, but nothing concrete.

and sudaca isn't racially abusive, so I wouldn't say it's anything like as offensive as negrito.

that's not to say it's good. and if Evra did say that then he should be banned/fined as well. but it's not racism and let's not pretend that it is.

 

[La Furia]

I've heard rumours about that, yeah, but nothing concrete.

and sudaca isn't racially abusive, so I wouldn't say it's anything like as offensive as negrito.

that's not to say it's good. and if Evra did say that then he should be banned/fined as well. but it's not racism and let's not pretend that it is.

It's not racism, but it's prejudicial and has a long and established history of being used as a slur against South Americans, originally by Spanish colonists. Saying it's not as bad because it's not racism is absurd, it's still discriminatory and there's no "In my country" excuse there.

Xenophobia and ethnic discrimination aren't a "lesser of evils"

In fact this is the kind of shit that will allow Uruguayans to play the victim and prevent any lesson from being learned.

 

[Deco 20]

no.
I'm talking abut the way they're responding.
their language is troubling. the way they're all reacting to this is troubling.
they come across as a nation of racists. "we call black people negritos all the time! they don't mind! honest!"
they're dismissing the idea that a black man not from their culture could be insulted by being called negrito, which is ignorant as fuck.
and ignorance is not an excuse.
I don't even think Suarez was ignorant. I doubt that when he and Coates met LeBron earlier this year, they greeted him with "what's up negrito?" - I doubt that he calls Glen Johnson "negrito" in training - I doubt that when Forlan was at United he used to call Rio, Brown and co. "negritos" or anything like that. I think he knew exactly what he was saying and knew that it'd wind Evra up no end.
Suarez isn't a racist, I'm fairly confident in saying that, but he racially abused Evra. and for that he must be punished.

I completely agree with the sections in bold. They have the right to defend the honour of their friend, and they are right in saying the severity of his punishment is unfair. But they shouldn't be belittling the racism issue.

Comments like these are worthy of condemnation:
"What is happening in Europe is a product of their [wider] problems, not of what happens between players – and one of those is racism. That reflects a lack of values in society. We have a country with [racial] differences but it is a long way from those in the Old Continent [Europe]."
"This is very worrying. It could happen to me or to anyone tomorrow. I could find myself in a defenceless position based on what just one person claims I have said. [After the Stamford Bridge incident] nothing was proven and no one believed [Evra]. I imagine he's happy now."

Whether or not what he said is worthy of a the ban depends on how he intended it. Sure, he should know what's acceptable in the UK by now, but I imagine he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. And the "fact" that what he said is often considered very harmless should make a difference. If he'd said the english version of the word, it'd been much worse. The FA seem to have trouble grasping cultural differences.

 

[Metaphysical]

It's not racism, but it's prejudicial and has a long and established history of being used as a slur against South Americans, originally by Spanish colonists. Saying it's not as bad because it's not racism is absurd, it's still discriminatory and there's no "In my country" excuse there.

I don't want to get into a dick measuring contest here, but no, it's not a racial slur so it's not as bad.

it's still highly discriminatory, yes, and like I said if Evra did say it then he deserves a ban/fine too. but it doesn't excuse what Suarez did (which is the main reason anyone seems to be bringing it up "BUT HE STARTED IT!" etc.) especially as he didn't even hear Evra say it.

 

[La Furia]

I don't want to get into a dick measuring contest here, but no, it's not a racial slur so it's not as bad.

it's still highly discriminatory, yes, and like I said if Evra did say it then he deserves a ban/fine too. but it doesn't excuse what Suarez did (which is the main reason anyone seems to be bringing it up "BUT HE STARTED IT!" etc.) especially as he didn't even hear Evra say it.

Fair enough. But if the FA doesn't even investigate the claims against Evra, they are going to drop the ball and any attempt to make a statement will be buried between the conflcit between those who think Suarez has been unfairly singled out as a South American who is easier to portray as a racist, and between those who think Suarez is worse than Hitler. At the very least I hope Terry can be punished to keep this from being portrayed as culture wars.

 

[Deco 20]

I don't want to get into a dick measuring contest here, but no, it's not a racial slur so it's not as bad.

it's still highly discriminatory, yes, and like I said if Evra did say it then he deserves a ban/fine too. but it doesn't excuse what Suarez did (which is the main reason anyone seems to be bringing it up "BUT HE STARTED IT!" etc.) especially as he didn't even hear Evra say it.

I'd call it racist or at least xenophobic just like antisemitism. It might not be about "race" as in black/white, but it can be just as while. For further examples, look at what happened in the Balkans and Rwanda. It wasn't "racism", but it was just as bad.

But, no, it's definitely not an excuse.

 

[Metaphysical]

Rwanda wasn't technically racism, but it was really (well, ethnic cleansing). thank the Belgians for that.

the Balkans was ethnic cleansing too.

you could argue "sudaca" is ethnicism, but xenophobia is probably more correct.

they're all pretty shit, though.

 

[Metaphysical]

Fair enough. But if the FA doesn't even investigate the claims against Evra, they are going to drop the ball and any attempt to make a statement will be buried between the conflcit between those who think Suarez has been unfairly singled out as a South American who is easier to portray as a racist, and between those who think Suarez is worse than Hitler. At the very least I hope Terry can be punished to keep this from being portrayed as culture wars.

Terry is fucked. the CPS think there's enough evidence to get a conviction. I'd be amazed if he gets away with it.

of course the maximum punishment they can dish out is only a fine. but if he's found guilty the FA will have to step in and ban the fucker.

and there are no claims to investigate. from what I've heard, Suarez didn't hear it or claim Evra said it. the source appears to be Evra's own statement. mind you I'm sure Liverpool will complain about it and force the FA to investigate, so it will probably be looked into.

 

[Deco 20]

they're all pretty shit, though.

True.

Are there any videos of the incident?

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

hahahaha like Evra would even know the term sudaca

 

[Silva Lining]

Liverpool FC....

AnfieldEd... Anyone who deserts their team last season and says they can't be bothered with them anymore then puts:

"Bill Shankly: "If you can't support us when we lose or draw, don't support us when we win."

In their signature, is a complete and utter joke.

 

[Maria]

I don't know if its true that Evra called Suarez a sudaca(I doubt that he knows what it means), but if its true than he should be given the same ban. For the south americans, "sudaca" is just as bad as "negrito" is for the black people so I don't understand why this is even discused.

Also, from Thiago's twitter:

@Thi_Alcantara91
Los 4 negritos en Tokyo ayer antes de cenar!! El mítico Mazinho, el gran Zizinho y el pendejo de @jona2santos...

We can see from Thiago's statement, that "negrito" doesn't have the same meaning for the spaniards as it does for the english speaking people. That's why I believe that Suarez didn't realized at that moment just how bad where his words(especially from Evra's point of view)..for me, the one who dissapointed me the most is Liverpool FC with their t-shirts and that awful statement from their site. They should have just accepted the verdict and move on, but they choose to play the victim card when their player is only a victim of his words.