Alen Halilović

[anguy]

I saw just 40 mins of the match, but he looked very much like Messi to me . Great dribbling, speed and through balls. When he's not selfish and defends he can be really good player.

Not that his good performance was much of a help today with the rest of team playing like crap.

 

[Gnidrologist]

For A team, sporadic starts?
Anyway, Xavi's debut with 18 years:

His debut was against Valencia away and he was invisible. You have cherry picked a youtube that helps your argument, but i remember his overall play very well. He was an utility player, who was less impressive than S.Roberto, because he was shit in defense. He did have a good passing culture from the get go, but he was utterly bypassed by veteran players and usually got to touch the ball, when it ricocheted to him.

I don't give a crap about Halil tbh., but your constant bs about how Xavi and Inieste were world breakers at a young age is false. I don't know if that's a result of bad memory or demagoguery, but in any case i'd suggest you re-watch some of the matches of Rivaldo/Enrique era.

 

[Bran the Greenseer]

He's probably the most talented midfielder we've had since Thiago(Or maybe him and Samper are equal) and at times he's showed he's willing to do the dirty work unlike Adama so I think theres hope for him. Unlike Deulofeu/Adama he's shown that he can play for the team so it's a matter of being under the right coach that will push him to keep up these sort of performances. I personally believe that coach is Lucho but if a proper loan can be sourced then that's fine too.

 

[BBZ8800]

His debut was against Valencia away and he was invisible. You have cherry picked a youtube that helps your argument, but i remember his overall play very well. He was an utility player, who was less impressive than S.Roberto, because he was shit in defense. He did have a good passing culture from the get go, but he was utterly bypassed by veteran players and usually got to touch the ball, when it ricocheted to him.

I don't give a crap about Halil tbh., but your constant bs about how Xavi and Inieste were world breakers at a young age is false. I don't know if that's a result of bad memory or demagoguery, but in any case i'd suggest you re-watch some of the matches of Rivaldo/Enrique era.

I am surely not doing that to cheat.

I was a teenager back then, and it was the first generation of Barca players whom I loved.
So, it may be that I am overhyping them too much.

I have told in Kovacic's topic that young Iniesta wasn't that good.
For Puyol, I remember that he was very poor in the beginning and that he was criticized a lot.
About Xavi, I don't know, my memory from back then is that whenever he played, he was good for imo (but again, I may be biased towards Xavi).

So, I don't remember exactly Xavi's 19-20-21 age, but I remember clearly watching almost games since Rijkaard, well, Xavi was a world class in that era (some people say that hewas just meh before Pep). So, I can't agree about that part.

Anyway, I wan't "cheating" about Xavi, I just may be biased towards players when I started to follow Barca.
About his debut, Wikipedia also says: and he made his competitive debut on 18 August 1998 in the Super Cup final, in which he scored against RCD Mallorca. His début in La Liga came against Valencia CF on 3 October 1998 in a 3–1 victory for Barcelona.

So, my video from Mallorca's match wasn't cheating, again.

 

[Bran the Greenseer]

I am surely not doing that to cheat.

I was a teenager back then, and it was the first generation of Barca players whom I loved.
So, it may be that I am overhyping them too much.

I have told in Kovacic's topic that young Iniesta wasn't that good.
For Puyol, I remember that he was very poor in the beginning and that he was criticized a lot.
About Xavi, I don't know, my memory from back then is that whenever he played, he was good for imo (but again, I may be biased towards Xavi).

So, I don't remember exactly Xavi's 19-20-21 age, but I remember clearly watching almost games since Rijkaard, well, Xavi was a world class in that era (some people say that hewas just meh before Pep). So, I can't agree about that part.

Anyway, I wan't "cheating" about Xavi, I just may be biased towards players when I started to follow Barca.
About his debut, Wikipedia also says: and he made his competitive debut on 18 August 1998 in the Super Cup final, in which he scored against RCD Mallorca. His début in La Liga came against Valencia CF on 3 October 1998 in a 3–1 victory for Barcelona.

I'd say age for age wise iniesta was better as a young prospect than Xavi but I think thats more due to his skillset being easier to show off at a young age. An 18 year old no matter how good he is cannot come on a field with legends and expect to be the boss and thats what Xavi's ability basically is. Even Messi for all his talent deferred to Ronaldinho for his first few years.

 

[King5Puyi]

He's probably the most talented midfielder we've had since Thiago(Or maybe him and Samper are equal) and at times he's showed he's willing to do the dirty work unlike Adama so I think theres hope for him. Unlike Deulofeu/Adama he's shown that he can play for the team so it's a matter of being under the right coach that will push him to keep up these sort of performances. I personally believe that coach is Lucho but if a proper loan can be sourced then that's fine too.

Too raw for first team. He'll just take up a spot. Would be better loaning him off elsewhere. Portugal or Holland maybe?

 

[Bran the Greenseer]

Too raw for first team. He'll just take up a spot. Would be better loaning him off elsewhere. Portugal or Holland maybe?

Yeah he is too raw, but at the same time Lucho is the only person that I trust with our youth right now. Pep is in bayern so he can't go there and every time we loan out a player nowadays its a death sentence and he's too talented for that imo. Maybe keeping him in the first team for the first half of the year while we have a missing spot in midfield and then loaning him out in January after Lucho can talk some sense into him?

 

[King5Puyi]

Yeah he is too raw, but at the same time Lucho is the only person that I trust with our youth right now. Pep is in bayern so he can't go there and every time we loan out a player nowadays its a death sentence and he's too talented for that imo. Maybe keeping him in the first team for the first half of the year while we have a missing spot in midfield and then loaning him out in January after Lucho can talk some sense into him?

Maybe. If B side hadn't relegated, I'd say he should have stayed where he is, but not anymore. It is possible we loan him out in Jan, gives Lucho a chance to see him first hand.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I've been saying this for a while ,Alen is one of the best if not the best prospects in the team
The early hype hurted him a lot but people should have recognised that by October .it was clear he isn't Messi and he wasn't gonna take Segunda by storm .but he has been steadily improving ever sense .he is a stronger physically now and his all around game is improving ,raw talent is clear
Still has long way to go .but there is hope for the kid ,keep the hard work Alen .and whoever is gonna be sporting director in summer .please choose the best route to develop him

I am surely not doing that to cheat.

I was a teenager back then, and it was the first generation of Barca players whom I loved.
So, it may be that I am overhyping them too much.

I have told in Kovacic's topic that young Iniesta wasn't that good.
For Puyol, I remember that he was very poor in the beginning and that he was criticized a lot.
About Xavi, I don't know, my memory from back then is that whenever he played, he was good for imo (but again, I may be biased towards Xavi).

So, I don't remember exactly Xavi's 19-20-21 age, but I remember clearly watching almost games since Rijkaard, well, Xavi was a world class in that era (some people say that hewas just meh before Pep). So, I can't agree about that part.

Anyway, I wan't "cheating" about Xavi, I just may be biased towards players when I started to follow Barca.
About his debut, Wikipedia also says: and he made his competitive debut on 18 August 1998 in the Super Cup final, in which he scored against RCD Mallorca. His début in La Liga came against Valencia CF on 3 October 1998 in a 3–1 victory for Barcelona.

So, my video from Mallorca's match wasn't cheating, again.

Xavi was very good around 2001 when he was 21 ,a solid Barca starter with potential to improve .but no one expected him to be what he is IMO . The more I think about it the more I am convinced that player development is everything .Xavi kept improving every year until he was 30 .that is the reason he is a legend .Zidane was relatively late bloomer too .Puyol was on his way out but LVG promoted him .all of those guys just didn't stop developing and improving
Gotta appreciate the hard work

 

[Gnidrologist]

I am surely not doing that to cheat.
So, my video from Mallorca's match wasn't cheating, again.

I'm not saying you did. Calm it.

And you are right about saying that he showed what a world class mid he is, when Rijkaard era started. That has a lot to do with both more playing time and how he was used, which was neither Van Gaal's approach, nor by whomever did follow in fast succession after him (Rexacth and Antic?) + he was around 24 then. Most of the younglings get written off (including by you) if they're not world class at the age 20. For example, Thiago, who is 24 now, is at the same age world outside Catalonia even started to recognize Xavi as a top class player. This shows quite a change in unwarranted expectations towards youth these days.
Also, Iniesta was incredibly selfish and often stupid (low IQ and all that jazz), when he was young. I remember screaming at him for not releasing the ball, but instead trying nutmeging or crocketting 2-3 players near sidelines at once. We weren't the juggernaut team that we have been in some of the recent seasons at that point, so his naive audacity was particularly pissing me off. I've watched some B team matches and Halilovic doesn't seem half as greedy selfish as young Iniesta was (and he is what, 17?). Only Delufeu and Adama compare, but i believe Delu can improve, because his vision and passing ability is excellent (Adama sucks at both) so it's only his attitude and overall team play should be kicked into his thick skull. Halilovic is still a kid and for a one, he does tremendously well.

 

[BBZ8800]

Xavi was very good around 2001 when he was 21 ,a solid Barca starter with potential to improve .but no one expected him to be what he is IMO . The more I think about it the more I am convinced that player development is everything .Xavi kept improving every year until he was 30 .that is the reason he is a legend

You mentioned that in another post, I agree.
Some players peak improve year after year, and some just remain at the same level as when they were 18.

and Halilovic doesn't seem half as greedy selfish as young Iniesta was (and he is what, 17?)

If you are talking about Halilovic's age here, you are wrong.
He looks like a kid, but he will be 19 in a Month.

That doesn't mean that he is bad, but he also isn't THAT young.

 

[ZenI]

I have serious doubts about signing a world class CM in january .only Gundogan and Kovacic will be available who aren't gonna be CL bound. Both might be gone by summer .it isn't given it will be just until January .

One of the main reasons i am enjoying this season to the fullest is that there is very small room for improvement next year .the ban fucked us (along Zubi not making some extra right signings) .no matter how people try to downplay its effect .next season will be tough and we aren't gonna be favorites ,hell with the age of the main players it might take 2016&2017 summer to overcome the effect of the ban

Back to the youth players ,S.Roberto didn't look he will continue in the club and even lucho didn't have any trust in him .until he tried him as DM against some smaller teams .Samper take step backs since Lucho used him . He isn't the sure thing any more
This summer it will be a competition between our youth midfielders and Lucho will be the judge .Any expectation right now is premature .

We need that extra midfielder, we're left with Iniesta, Raki and Rafinha (and maybe SR). That is really thin. If Vermalean can go 2-3 months without injuring himself we could also push Masch up to DM and Busi on CM - but I've seen it tried and it didn't work out. We kind of have a problem here. What does it leave us with? Well, Samper and Hali. This could in a way become interesting and nerv racking at once - maybe, just maybe, one of them could come through.

 

[BBZ8800]

Also, about Iniesta, I agree that he wasn't too good for Barca's A-team in the beginning, but:
"Iniesta enjoyed an early taste of international success with the junior national team, leading Spain to victories at the UEFA European Under-17 Championship in 2001 and the Under-19 Championship the following year."

I don't remember was it U17 or U19 championship, but I remember watching it back then on Eurosport, and Iniesta and Gabri were key players in those teams, with Iniesta hailed as the biggest European talent back then by media and commentators.

So yes, all players need to develop a lot, for a lot of Seasons, but Xavi and Iniesta had a lot of natural talent from the early age.
Xavi had that calmness, passing and vision even aged 18 for the 1st team.
Iniesta had technique and weaker decisions in the 1st team, but he was a few levels above other players in youth competitions (like Euro championship with Spain, mentioned above)

 

[khaled_a_d]

IIRC ,Iniesta biggest youth success was in FIFA U-20 world cup 2003 ,he was the best player in the team that lost in the final

 

[Gnidrologist]

We aren't talking about raw talent/potential, but whether certain players could make it big at current Barca. Halilovic certainly could, but it's not a fact that he will. Just like it was with those two at the time.