Andrés Iniesta

[Sergio]

You are beyond descriptions sometimes. Lets make this easy for you:

Some guy: Cesc is always amazing against Milan.

Me: Well he wasn't last time.

Dalitis: Well Hercules beat Barca last season and do you remember Numancia? I rest my case.

Its not so much that everything you say is stupid, it is more that its just the incoherent ramblings of a dementia patient.

 

[dalitis8]

You are beyond descriptions sometimes. Lets make this easy for you:

Some guy: Cesc is always amazing against Milan.

Me: Well he wasn't last time.

Dalitis: Well Hercules beat Barca last season and do you remember Numancia? I rest my case.

Its not so much that everything you say is stupid, it is more that its just the incoherent ramblings of a dementia patient.

Again. You pretend to be an analytic philosopher.

It's not about isolating this sentence here or there.

The fact that he was not great against Milan last time round proves nothing at all, for the reasons I have repeatedly highlighted. But you fail to take note of that by quoting some random staff removed from my overall argument.

Your basic argument (that is what you are clearly implying) is that Cesc is not much to worry about, since he was not great last time round. That I believe to be false, and I have argued precisely why that may be. (like the fact that he was way too short on much fitness then)

Then you ponder on the possibility that Cesc may not suit Barca (I mean, are you a inhabiting planet earth?)

What I said about Numancia and Hercules, had to do with a point that you seem to totally fail to include into your line of thought, whenever your arbitrary line of arguing is potentially threatened. Again, and again, and again, you insist to greatly generalize out of singular games (the Barca-Milan game in Sep, the City-Napoli game of Sep as well, and even the Joan Gamper friendly from last season if you happen to recall)

When a serious person refers to Cesc Fabregas and his potential to cause damage in an upcoming game, has nothing to do with isolated games. Cesc has been awesome for years on end. That is the only argument worth posing.

When you refer to the September game as evidence, you are sadly mistaken. When we, refer to his goal at the San Siro from 3 and a half years ago, we are also mistaken. People who analyze football on that basis are a bit thick imo.

This is a refinement of the whole debate I reckon.

 

[Sergio]

I wouldn't really call you making up points of your own to argue against yourself with as much of a debate. Well, not one that you or your otherself would ever win. Both very much being the losers I would say.

 

[dalitis8]

Well.

Some things will remain forever beyond your intellectual capacities. It seems so, at least.

But the difference between you and me, is that I can refine my argument for the benefit of clarity, precision and approximation of the truth.

All you seem capable of, is provocation, insult, and a disturbing capacity of twisting all evidence to favor your line of argument. When something suits your emotional preferences you parade it like a motherfucker: "Serie A clubs have won 2 CLs in the past 5 years, while EPL clubs have only won one" to give but one example, whilst conveneiently forgetting the entirety of European competition results of these same past 5 years.

When those results are brought to the surface, by someone like me, you will then say that past results are not an indication of current potency, forgetting that your latest claim directly contradicts your initial one.

The concept of intellectual consistency is wholly alien to you, underlined by the fact that I never recall you admitting that you were mistaken in some of your earlier claims.

 

[LaMessiah]

sweet pissing match

 

[dalitis8]

On a further note. You seem baffled with my mentioning of the Numancia and Hercules games of yesteryear. The reason why I brought those up, was to precisely underline my argument, that judging based on limited evidence (that you seem to be persistently doing) can lead to the most wrongful of conclusions.

 

[barcelonista]

Some games are only won if you are at 100 %. If Iniesta is 100 %, Fabregas is 98 %. And that might not be enough sometimes. As good as the latter is, he hasn't even fully gelled yet with the team and he even says himself that he still has to learn a lot about movements and defensive work. No idea how "Fabregas was good 5 years ago against Milan" can be brought as an argument here. Iniesta missing is always a big blow, after all he's our second best player. Sometimes, if he's in the mood and Messi's not, even the best.

The bigger blow though is not that he misses the Milan game. The bigger blow is that we still did not start our strongest XI this season. A few weeks before El Clasico, there is still no rythm in the team. Pique, Puyol, Sanchez, Villa, Pedro, Iniesta ... It's freaking funny how everyone's thinking about 31 year old Xavi's health but he's pretty much the most robust player in the team.

 

[jamrock]

Some games are only won if you are at 100 %. If Iniesta is 100 %, Fabregas is 98 %. And that might not be enough sometimes. As good as the latter is, he hasn't even fully gelled yet with the team and he even says himself that he still has to learn a lot about movements and defensive work. No idea how "Fabregas was good 5 years ago against Milan" can be brought as an argument here. Iniesta missing is always a big blow, after all he's our second best player. Sometimes, if he's in the mood and Messi's not, even the best.

The bigger blow though is not that he misses the Milan game. The bigger blow is that we still did not start our strongest XI this season. A few weeks before El Clasico, there is still no rythm in the team. Pique, Puyol, Sanchez, Villa, Pedro, Iniesta ... It's freaking funny how everyone's thinking about 31 year old Xavi's health but he's pretty much the most robust player in the team.

this is a key point.

 

[Aryagorn]

out for how long?

 

[jamrock]

out for how long?

just a precaution, he'll likely be back for the weekend

 

[Aryagorn]

just a precaution, he'll likely be back for the weekend

that's a good news I guess... We need the Don to be fit and in form to come out alive in the league after the 1st classico

 

[Manuel Traquete]

Some games are only won if you are at 100 %. If Iniesta is 100 %, Fabregas is 98 %. And that might not be enough sometimes. As good as the latter is, he hasn't even fully gelled yet with the team and he even says himself that he still has to learn a lot about movements and defensive work. No idea how "Fabregas was good 5 years ago against Milan" can be brought as an argument here. Iniesta missing is always a big blow, after all he's our second best player. Sometimes, if he's in the mood and Messi's not, even the best.

The bigger blow though is not that he misses the Milan game. The bigger blow is that we still did not start our strongest XI this season. A few weeks before El Clasico, there is still no rythm in the team. Pique, Puyol, Sanchez, Villa, Pedro, Iniesta ... It's freaking funny how everyone's thinking about 31 year old Xavi's health but he's pretty much the most robust player in the team.

I agree with most of this, especially Iniesta being the most important after Messi and sometimes even better.

And great point about Xavi too. Most people praise Xavi for many things, but his fitness is greatly underrated. He's one of the fittest players in the world. He remains one of the world's best months before turning 32, which is simply a phenomenal achievement. He plays 50+ games + internationals and can manage it better than younger players like Iniesta or Francesc. He looks younger than both actually, given his fitness.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

I agree with most of this, especially Iniesta being the most important after Messi and sometimes even better.

And great point about Xavi too. Most people praise Xavi for many things, but his fitness is greatly underrated. He's one of the fittest players in the world. He remains one of the world's best months before turning 32, which is simply a phenomenal achievement. He plays 50+ games + internationals and can manage it better than younger players like Iniesta or Francesc. He looks younger than both actually, given his fitness.

It's partly a factor of how Xavi plays. He runs a hell of a lot, but it's mostly at a jogging pace with occasional acceleration. More often than not, he releases the ball before being challenged, so he is involved in less tackles and collisions. His job isn't to make penetrating runs, so he isn't often brought down as a dribbling threat on goal. You can't really compare Iniesta to Xavi, because Iniesta makes attacking runs through the meat grinder of defenders' legs, and is far more likely to be injured.

 

[dalitis8]

Yeah.

Iniesta tends to accelerate/dribble much more often than Xavi does. If people can recall correctly, it was in an effort of acceleration/dribbling that he got injured against AC Milan.
One of the reasons why Messi was moved in the center by Pep, was to avoid the stress of accelerating runs required on the wing.

 

[ammarfcb]

Yeah.

Iniesta tends to accelerate/dribble much more often than Xavi does. If people can recall correctly, it was in an effort of acceleration/dribbling that he got injured against AC Milan.
One of the reasons why Messi was moved in the center by Pep, was to avoid the stress of accelerating runs required on the wing.

you'r right. iniesta changes paces alot. and it has a big influence on the way we play.