Andres Iniesta

[cris29]

The blame can't be solely on tactics, his decline has been evident since last season; tactics have changed from beginning of Tata to current tactics, yet his performances haven't improved but decline further. His passing n vision have deteriorated also, he isn't providing anything of substance to the side. Perhaps it is psychological and he needs a new environment to reboot himself.

He has been living off his reputation this season, playing well a couple of times shouldn't guarantee him a starting place. Especially when Lucho feels at times to start him AND Rafinha. I loved watching Iniesta, he played so beautifully yet provided substance also; i just hope he doesn't continue playing like this AND starting as it will replace my fond memories with current ones.

Iniesta is meant to be our creative spark in midfield, yet i exception of Copa games and Ajax in CL. I cannot recall him creating much. Unfortunately, we don't have anyone to replace him as Xavi can't play 90 minutes, Rafinha just runs, Mascherano in DM n Busquets in CM? That is awfully risky to try @this stage of season. We have so few Midfielders,

Rafinha, Masch, Busquets, Iniesta, Xavi, and Rakitic. Three start, and another is primarily a CB. One is 35, 30 and a recall from a loan. I fear for next season. Our greatest strength has turned into our greatest weakness.
Sorry for being pessimistic!

 

[mark1nhu]

Of course age can affect skill, vision, pass and other technical attributes.

Football players are also high level athletes. Even cerebral ones like Iniesta and Xavi.

They need intense and focused technical training to keep sharp his skills (included there the non-physical ones, like game reading and vision).

It's not only a matter of gift.

And the sad thing is: eventually the body start to respond worse to stimulus (included the brain and all light speed chemical reactions involved).

Iniesta declined AND current system is not helping him to avoid the effects.

Get over it.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

Get over it.

Helpful advice in the spirit of camaraderie and kindness is always welcome here on the BarçaForum.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

Spain also plays with 5 midfielders which shields Iniesta and lessens his other duties so he can be allowed to excel in other areas. Barca plays with 3 midfielders and each midfielder responsibility and duties are far more demanding because of it, which is where Iniesta is struggling. 3 man midfield is just too demanding for his current state as a footballer. Vs Ukraine Iniesta had Busquets and Koke shielding his back, and Isco shielding his wing. Iniesta was free to playmake. Far easier on the individual to divide midfield duties among 5 than among 3.

I bet if Barcelona played a 5 man midfield of Busi, Rakitic, Xavi, Iniesta and Rafinha (like Spain played Busi, Koke, Iniesta, Isco, Silva) with only Messi at forward, Iniesta would perform better. Would Barca be better, I doubt it though.

I wouldn't call it "shielding." It's simply the system in which Iniesta has always played, one of constant movement, ball circulation, and options. Now, with Barça, he has hardly any options. Just defend deep, get the ball back, and give it to Neymar/Alba (and sometimes Suarez, if on the left). No one else is close enough to be of any help. I think he's only played with Xavi once/twice this whole season. Neymar rarely passes and moves, taking Iniesta out of the play 95% of the time Iniesta gives him the ball. If he is hassled off the ball, it's because he has to hold it far longer with no outlets (notice how quick he is to release the ball with Spain). He would have always looked ordinary, at any age, playing in a system like Barça plays now. It's just not a fit for his skill set.

 

[BBZ8800]

Physical decline makes no sense for a guy like Iniesta. Xavi is different he cant put up the same workrate like he used to, but he can easily dominate a game as a sub or against weaker opposition, he will Always have the 360 view, you just notice he is physically less than 5 years ago. Only thing I dont get is for example a play where a player makes a run and you can tell Xavi spots it like he always does, yet he chooses to pass it safe sideways rather than risk the troughball like before.

With Iniesta though, how does he rely on physicallity? he is not an athlete, nor does he require the workrate/stamina. Doesnt matter if he is 30 or 40 he will still hav ehis technique/skill/vision/passing. But he gets hassled of the ball more easily, is largely invisible, and isnt the important factor he was in 2012 for example bare a handful of games.
Since he doesnt add anything in output whats the use of him then?

It has to be tactics and perhaps a psychological issue regarding motivation. Iniesta is to good to be playing like this, Lucho needs to figure out a way for our system to work with Iniesta being well in it as well.

I am playing football only with my friends in my town, but for example, 10 years ago I have broke my cruciate knee ligaments in a right knee and had to operate them.
So, let's say it this way:
-- I had the same technique, same skill in passing/dribbling/shooting/footballing IQ/whatever (no matter how good or bad I was, that is irrelevant)
-- but after the operation, I was much slower, in much weaker physical shape etc (compared to MY level before the injury)

Now, from my experience, everything you "do" on the pitch when your physical fitness is at 60-70%, is much weaker than when you are at 100%.
-- only shortpasses without any pressure on you are more or less the same as before
-- if I tried to dribble, I knew what I am trying to do, buy my body/legs didn't follow me, and everything I did was a few miliseconds slower and less explosive, and I was losing much more balls during dribbles than before
-- every long pass or a cross is weaker because you need some physical strength/stamina for longer passes, through balls or crosses
-- direction of passes is intact (that is your skill which hasn't declined), but the perfect power of that pass plus how much time you need from a decision to execution is a few miliseconds slower than when you are 100% and thus the opponents have a few miliseconds more to predict your pass, to take a better position and finally to intercept it (this is what happens to Xavi, imo)
-- shooting on goal? the same. Most of my shots were weaker, because again, you need some physical strength and stamina in every ranged or semi-ranged shot
Plus, the execution time between the decision, taking the position and trying a shot is again a few miliseconds slower
-- marking and tackling? The same. I would know what the opponent would do, and I would usually take the ball easily, but now, I was always "one step" too late and the opponents would run away from me, again, even though I knew what they will do

Also, I have same problems now since I am older than 30, and when I play football, I can't do things like 10 years ago.
You have more routine, experience, better footballing IQ, but you are just too often "one step" too slow in every pass, in every tackle, in pressing, closing down the opponents.

So, my own experience, both as a 20 years old after an injury, and now, when I am older
= more or less everything in your overall game is 10-20% weaker/slower/sloppier than before

Personally, I understand why Xavi and Iniesta are today weaker than before.
Technique, vision and passing are there, but without 100% of pace, stamina and even strength, everything is just weaker/slower than when you were on a prime.

 

[Kerrybai]

A couple of years back there was a lot of talk about Zidane vs Iniesta. Zidane had great twilight years which in the end will likely place him far above the Don.

 

[Alik]

A couple of years back there was a lot of talk about Zidane vs Iniesta. Zidane had great twilight years which in the end will likely place him far above the Don.

Iniesta has had 7 seasons of top performances over which his peak performances were greater than Zidane's, in my opinion. Zidane having great twilight years is not as relevant because Iniesta, at the age of 28, had already had a greater career than Zidane. Again, in my opinion.

 

[cris29]

Iniesta has had 7 seasons of top performances over which his peak performances were greater than Zidane's, in my opinion. Zidane having great twilight years is not as relevant because Iniesta, at the age of 28, had already had a greater career than Zidane. Again, in my opinion.

I feel Zidane had a greater ceiling but rarely hit it. Career wise it is very close, perhaps edging towards Iniesta; however, Zidane although inconsistent he was the more talented. It is very close, you can't be wrong having either choice.

 

[TotaalVoetbal]

C'mon Zidane was clearly better than Iniesta.

 

[Sumlit]

I wouldn't call it "shielding." It's simply the system in which Iniesta has always played, one of constant movement, ball circulation, and options. Now, with Barça, he has hardly any options. Just defend deep, get the ball back, and give it to Neymar/Alba (and sometimes Suarez, if on the left). No one else is close enough to be of any help. I think he's only played with Xavi once/twice this whole season. Neymar rarely passes and moves, taking Iniesta out of the play 95% of the time Iniesta gives him the ball. If he is hassled off the ball, it's because he has to hold it far longer with no outlets (notice how quick he is to release the ball with Spain). He would have always looked ordinary, at any age, playing in a system like Barça plays now. It's just not a fit for his skill set.

It is shielding Berkeley. For Spain in the Ukraine game for instance, Iniesta's duties we're lessened because he had 4 other midfielders around him. Koke and Busi hold the middle and shield the back, and Isco brought work-rate to Iniesta's wing. Iniesta could focus on creation and he was comfortable.

The current way Barca plays doesn't prohibit Iniesta from having constant movement, ball circulation and options, it just simply also demands high work rate, high defensive rate and high expenditure of energy which he simply is no longer capable of physically bringing. If he had 3 or 4 other midfielders to share the high energy duties with, he would look a lot better, but Barca play a 4-3-3, and a much faster and vertical version of it now, which makes demands of Iniesta that he can no longer do. Iniesta played a similar system under Rijkaard and did not look ordinary as you claim because he was younger and had more to bring physically.

Like I said, to get the best of Iniesta in his current state of his career, you'd need to reshuffle the entire team and formation to give him plenty of midfield partners to share and lessen his midfield burden so he can focus on less things. Not a smart thing to do with a midfielder who is towards the last stage of his career.

The current way Barca plays doesn't squeeze the most out of Iniesta, but Iniesta cannot perform better in the current style of play because he physically is no longer able to do so.

 

[TotaalVoetbal]

I feel Zidane had a greater ceiling but rarely hit it. Career wise it is very close, perhaps edging towards Iniesta; however, Zidane although inconsistent he was the more talented. It is very close, you can't be wrong having either choice.

Iniesta has gotten a pass his entire career for sub-par stats yet you're labeling Zidane inconsistent? The latter didn't have the privilege of playing with the best ever midfielder and player either.

 

[DonAK]

Iniesta has gotten a pass his entire career for sub-par stats yet you're labeling Zidane inconsistent? The latter didn't have the privilege of playing with the best ever midfielder and player either.

If only stats were everything then Cesc would be the best midfielder of all time.

 

[DrPepper]

C'mon Zidane was clearly better than Iniesta.

No

 

[BBZ8800]

Iniesta has had 7 seasons of top performances over which his peak performances were greater than Zidane's, in my opinion. Zidane having great twilight years is not as relevant because Iniesta, at the age of 28, had already had a greater career than Zidane. Again, in my opinion.

Zidane won 3 Fifa world player of the year awards and 1 Ballon'd'or.
Plus, he was voted as the best European player in the last 50 years, by Uefa.

The same as how today Messi collects all trophies, and is the "key man" of Barca's success, in the same way, media somehow picked Zidane as a key man of Real's success in 2000' and 2002'.
He was their Messi, or their Ronaldinho from 2004'-2006'.
But, also, the hype around Real was insane, they were voted as the best team of the century and all that crap around 2000'.
In all media back then it was: Real, Real, Real, Real, Real. The best team in a history, the best team of the century.
And again, Zidane was the best current player of "the best team of the century" :/

Iniesta will always be our 2nd, 3rd or 4th best player during our famous years, and imo, he will never be as hailed as Zidane was.

In early 2000's a lot of media were asking questions: who is better: Maradona or Zidane, and is the Zidane greatest footballer ever?

Real had Figo, Beckham, Raul, Ronaldo (Brasilian), but for some reason, all the hype was mostly around Zidane.
While he was awesome, I never understood all the hype around him (to these insane levels).

So, imo, when Iniesta retires, in 5-10-20 years, history will rank Zidane much higher.
Iniesta had to fight with Messi and Xavi. He was never "the best player of Barca" and that will, imo, "cost" him.
He will alway be "just" one of Barca's best players...

 

[Hamzah]

I think Zidane is a more dominating player and star man of the team. I rate him a bit better than iniesta.