His end product has gone. You hardly see him play a killer pass anymore and has scored 1 goal all season and didn't score at all in the league last year. The burden is falling on Messi to create.
yahudi
New member
In terms of scoring, he was never that dangerous. Even in Pep days, his reluctance to shoot was talked about quite a bit. In Lucho's setup, he's having a more reserved role anyway and is not getting into goalscoring positions.
His eye for pass is still there but the exection has been letting him down recently. He's been overhitting lots of passes.
Further to previous comment, and it will likely be unpopular, IMO he's one of the most overrated Barcelona players in decades. Had a real purple patch in form between 2009 and 2012 for both Club and Country with some immense performances in the big matches, otherwise he's been a stroller since. Not quite the drop in form as Fernando Torres had, but he's certainly getting away with it at the moment.
I'm not even sure what his role is in the side anymore. He's not captain material, he can't defend, his creative play is non-existant, he's slow and he doesn't even try and make the telling passes to the front three either. When he gets into the final third he shits himself. doesn't know what to do. Even if you subtract goals and assist out the equation, which has never been his strong point, i'd love to know just how many chances he's creating per season before 2013 and afterwards.
It's a shame because Messi is now having to drop so deep every damn game just to make up for Iniesta's (and Rakitic's) deficience
I'm not even sure what his role is in the side anymore. He's not captain material, he can't defend, his creative play is non-existant, he's slow and he doesn't even try and make the telling passes to the front three either. When he gets into the final third he shits himself. doesn't know what to do. Even if you subtract goals and assist out the equation, which has never been his strong point, i'd love to know just how many chances he's creating per season before 2013 and afterwards.
It's a shame because Messi is now having to drop so deep every damn game just to make up for Iniesta's (and Rakitic's) deficience
I agree with you. He was a great player but right now he is awful.
6 Ballons for Messi
but what if he wins 7??
That's just plain wrong.
Iniesta is not overrated at all, quite the opposite.
And about your comment that for the last few years he only performs in big games and otherwise is a "stroller", I mean wtf dude.
That's 1000x times better than being a flat track bully who disappears when the going gets tough like cristiano.
Last season he started slowly but in march and april he was back to his best in all the big games.
Now he's turning 32, obviously he's not the same anymore, no need to disrespect him, just give him less time in the coming seasons and groom someone else for his position.
Iniesta is not overrated at all, quite the opposite.
And about your comment that for the last few years he only performs in big games and otherwise is a "stroller", I mean wtf dude.
That's 1000x times better than being a flat track bully who disappears when the going gets tough like cristiano.
Last season he started slowly but in march and april he was back to his best in all the big games.
Now he's turning 32, obviously he's not the same anymore, no need to disrespect him, just give him less time in the coming seasons and groom someone else for his position.
Errr, how?
Re Cristiano, I hate him, but this notion he disappears in he big games is a myth. He's got a good scoring record in the Clasico and is the current European top goalscorer of all time. Other than this season, when Real have needed him, he's found a way to sneak a goal. The problem with him is the measuring stick is Messi, and quite frankly no one in the world comes close to him.
As for Iniesta, where did he go running off to Vs PSG in 2013? A half injured Messi had to come on to save the match because he couldn't step up in Messi's absence. He was (at the time) the only other player comparable to Messi in terms of technique and being able to beat whats in front of him. He bottled it, and to me that was the start of his decline. He's strolled through games since with the safety net of Busquets and Xavi in midfield and a freescoring front three.
At 32 he should be in his peak years, instead he's on one serious decline. I see two options for him. 1) He takes up the Xavi role and Rakitic is replaced with a creative midfielder or 2) He takes a step back and the Club buy a proper combative midfielder along with a creative mid, because it's evident with both Iniesta and Rakitic in midfield you have alot of graft (from Raki), but little else. It's slow and ponderous and Messi is covering their asses at the moment.
6 Ballons for Messi
but what if he wins 7??
See, you are throwing numbers at our faces to justify cristiano's presence in big games like all his fanboys do.
Who cares that he's the current top scorer in cl when he scored almost 30 goals in the last 2 seasons alone vs small teams, cristiano needs to be fed chances, there's little he can do if he doesn't have service, so he disappears in big games.
You are nitpicking a game vs psg to make your argument.
Don't see you saying anything about his performance in the big games last year, not to mention he was barca's best player in the 0-4 thrashing in bernaleo.
And finally, no, at 32 years old only keepers and cb's may still perform at peak level, iniesta is no longer his old self.
So just let the Don phase out at his own pace while roberto, rafinha, turan and maybe a new signing will take his spot in the starting eleven.
What's he doing to justify his place in the team then? He's a weak link and his lack of creativity is forcing Messi to drop deeper to make things happen.
We need a Saul or Pogba to reinvigorate the midfield.
To be fair he did have a purple patch at the end of last season which was a key contribution. He was a passenger for a while before that though and most of this season. He's getting by on reputation and past glories. We needed him to step up in April and he wasn't in the games.
yahudi
New member
His link-up play is still second to none, except Busquets maybe. He is still more capable in dribbling his way out of tight situations than any other Barca midfielder. He has been steadily improving the balance between defense duties (important because Neymar is not very good at defending) and offensive actions, something that Arda or Rafinha have been struggling with.
The poor execution of well-thought passes might be down to the same mental fatigue that battered the whole team. If anything, it's a sign to manage the player's minutes better. Unfortunately, his replacements have not set the world alight, either.
Messi dropping deeper has been a thing since 2009, with a short break of being a full-blown 9 around 2013. The recent problems are more due to poor execution than to the basic idea.
I have a question for that. How come nobody was asking for Saul 2-3 months ago? Where were ya'll at?
The same people who called Xavi finished 2 years ago, who want Iniesta benched and Arda sold now, will be the first ones crying when Pogba's attempted Hollywood passes don't succeed. And I don't even mind Paul as a player.
You've essentially discredited every single centre-forward of the last two centuries right there. Well done.
Again, this is where using Messi as the measuring stick skews the view on Ronaldo. Where he lacks the genius of Messi on the ball, he makes up for in spades in off it. He's extremely hard to pin down when he's constantly on the move and has the tendancy to get into the right position at the right time. He's close to scoring 100 CL goals FFS and has scored pretty much against every team he's faced.
Your beef is with the way the public percieve him as a player (not a goalscorer), but you cannot knock someone who's records would be celebrated in any other era. Must be doing something right.
No, I was using that as a reference point for my argument. Ever since then he's been in a massive decline, and the odd good performance here and there doesn't change that. Of course a player with that kind of ability doesn't turn to shit overnight, look at Torres, he's had many ups and downs since his the beginning of his (big) decline in his final year at Liverpool, but even with those performances no one no longer thinks he's up there with the best centre-forwards in Europe. The magic will always remain there, but it's fleeting, and that's not what you want when your club is gunning for all trophies on offer. Not everyone can afford a luxury like MSN, when they're huffing and puffing you need others to step up. Iniesta doesn't (anymore).[/QUOTE]
Highlights how poor the backup is doesn't it? In any case, at 32 he should be in his peak years. Look at Pirlo. He moved to Juve at 32 and was still looked like like he was in his mid 20s. Problem for Iniesta is this started when he was about 28/29.
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