Arthur

[El Gato]

Level of responsibility? Would he have retired if the team would definitely benefit his presence even at an advanced age? + not a leader. Different person to Ramos. So not sure why it's being presented as 'similar'.

Busquets is garbage across the board isn't he? You tell me how much of a liability he is. You watch more of him. Whenever I see him he's rinsed for pace like Marcelo except gets benched.. how often, as a result?

Yeah I wasn't saying top players don't get pissed off when dropped. More so that there's been no malice or unhealthy backlash. Not sure what you're pressing on?

What examples do you want for Suarez? Dude hasn't been benched in years and is a grade A cunt. Connect the dots. Compare that with Benzema who'd at most nod sadly instead of fighting. Entirely different situation, entirely different personalities.

 

[JamDav1982]

Level of responsibility? Would he have retired if the team would definitely benefit his presence even at an advanced age? + not a leader. Different person to Ramos. So not sure why it's being presented as 'similar'.

Busquets is garbage across the board isn't he? You tell me how much of a liability he is. You watch more of him.

Yeah I wasn't saying top players don't get pissed off when dropped. More so that there's been no malice or unhealthy backlash. Not sure what you're pressing on?

What examples do you want? Dude hasn't been benched in years and is a grade A cunt. Connect the dots. Compare that with Benzema who'd at most nod sadly instead of fighting. Entirely different situation, entirely different personalities.

Pique chose to retire from Spain. That has no bearing on anything on them at club level.


Busquets is well passed his best I agree but so to are likes of Modric/Marcelo and they are still playing as many games as anyone in their position when fit.

What 'unhealthy backlash' has there been from Barca players when rested?

Should be able to find so many examples of a grade A cunt acting in way which Benzema doesnt.

Both squads have old core that they are still to reliant on and are suffering from being too slow to move on from and both clubs are suffering for it.

 

[El Gato]

Marcelo has been benched for Reguilon by Solari and then for Mendy by Zidane without being reintroduced for most fixtures other than the latest Clasico where it was a big gamble driven by our terrible scoring form in Feb anyway. He's not a starter. He’s a vet Zidane is trying to make use of before he’s no longer of any use.

Modrić when fit starts half the amount of games he used to. Again a vet rather than a core player. We don't need him to win, in fact Zidane knows he can't trust him most times now because he's too old. We merely benefit from his mentality in the squad so we keep him fit. So not a starter either. Him and Marcelo are actively becoming more what Carvalho has been for us in late-Mourinho times. Utility vets. Should they choose to accept it.

Examples of Suarez being a cunt are aplenty. Shouting down Semedo and Dembele for something entirely trivial off the top of my head. Do we need to have an entire conversation about him? Or are we really not going to agree that the responses from him and Benzema to being benched are unlikely to be similar? Lol.

 

[JamDav1982]

Marcelo has been benched for Reguilon by Solari and then for Mendy by Zidane without being reintroduced for most fixtures other than the latest Clasico where it was a big gamble driven by our terrible scoring form in Feb anyway. He's not a starter.

Modrić when fit starts half the amount of games he used to. A vet rather than a core player. We don't need him to win, in fact Zidane knows he can't trust him most times now because he's too old. We merely benefit from his mentality in the squad so we keep him fit. So not a starter either.

Examples of Suarez being a cunt are aplenty. Shouting down Semedo and Dembele for something entirely trivial off the top of my head. Do we need to have an entire conversation about him? Or are we really not going to agree that the responses from him and Benzema to being benched are unlikely to be similar? Lol.

Marcelo has started higher % of games when available than Mendy has and has played 90 mins in last 4 La Liga games.

Zidane is starting to favor him over Mendy as Mendy is poor in final third it seems. Or some other reason.

Modric when fit has started 11 of last 15 La Liga games once past injuries and V City in CL. Playing less but not half the games. Zidane is still relying on him heavily. Still a starter for majority of games.

What is the point about Suarez 'being a cunt'? How does this make any difference to both him and Benzema both being past their best but both clubs still being too reliant on them?

Benzema has reacted in past to being subbed. He doesnt like it as Suarez doesnt. Would argue Suarez has been better in recent seasons as well even if both past their best.

Real looked old v Ajax last season and looked off it v City as Barca have against energetic teams in CL. Both have declined a lot in that regard.

 

[El Gato]

Makes sense he has slightly better stats, Mendy was new earlier on in the season and gradually displaced him when proven himself.
Marcelo was favoured lately because we were desperate for goals in that specific time period since the non-striker of ours hit his norm again. Doesn't make him a starter. Late Pirlo was more of a starter for Juventus lol.
Nor is Mendy 'poor', just much poorER than Marcelo. Which is why the latter is even in the club at this point.

Zidane is not relying on Modrić heavily. He's playing half the amount of time he did 1 and 2 seasons ago,even excluding injuries. If he started and played every one of the last 11 Liga games thatd put him at 75% of last season's 2700 minutes. Which he won't. He'll be closer to 60%. A starter is someone who is on the sheet without much deliberation. Someone like Casemiro who is actually being relied on heavily. Not Modrić. Modrić is as much a starter as Fede. So not a starter and not going to return to being one. Zidane isn't blind and sees the effect Fede has on the team. Until Feb we haven't lost a game with him starting. It'll only continue.

Not a surprise Suarez reacts OK since he's almost never subbed due to bad performance but for rest. Neither has Benzema. The latter has not been subbed for that reason by Zidane in years. Might have to go back as far as Clasico 2017 to see it. + Even in the title year he could count on a spot despite Morata performing better and he knew it + results were good so never kicked up a fuss. Nepotism all around. Very different.

Real looked fine at Ajax away. The Girona game did the domino effect. Looking old on a bad run is no surprise with this Real. When things flow well it's almost never observed. And bad runs aren't solely due to age here.

 

[BBZ8800]

I agree, but the point is to make moves as a club and not let veterans run things until they are 35. We did almost nothing, the board and almost all managers just stood around and did jack shit. We still have a core from 8-12 years ago.

So, it is normal for players to decline and lose motivation after more than a decade at the top (some of them). It's not normal for a club to just stand around and still think of these players as irreplaceable, even though they are clearly past it.

The reality is we have been embarassed in CL 3 years in a row due to not being fit and intense enough, and this board still acts as if what we need is more veterans.

It is easy to say that.

If you look at a history, all teams who won too many trophies, paid the price later on.
Galacticos won 3 CLs from 1998-2002 and then it was impossible to say: fuck off to those superstars.
And thanks to Galacticos, Barca returned to a scene with Laporta, Rijkaard, Ronnie, Etoo and young hungry players who didn't win any single trophy.
But look at that era: Galacticos had their hands tied with the old players.
And Barca was able to turn the page since we were the ultimate shit for 4-5 years.

Ac Milan. They were winning everything in 90s and early 00s.
And then they kept their oldies for too long and paid the price.

Man Utd under Ferguson.
Ferguson wasn't able to say fuck off to his legends like Giggs and Scholes and kept them for way too long.

Barca today: the same story.

Can anyone find a single similar story: where a team has won everything and where their board was able to turn the page easily, sell/sack all players and start with new gen of players?
You won't find it.
Why?
Because if you (the board) do that, you will be an ultimate asshole.
And you will send the message: you will be here until you are winning and as soon as you are not young anymore, we will get rid of you.

To some extent, Pep is doing that and this is why I consider him as an asshole.
He stays at a club only for 3-4-5 years.
He builds a team of a young, hungry players.
Then he wins everything and then he has 2 options:
1. stay and keep those players who will decline fast due to physical and mental exhaustion
2. or run away to a new club and repeat the same

So, I don't know why are people comparing our club with Liverpool or other clubs.
We are in a different situation.
We were never in the same situation in our history: to have so many (old) legends in a club.

The reality is we have been embarassed in CL 3 years in a row due to not being fit and intense enough, and this board still acts as if what we need is more veterans.

I agree about more veterans.
But regarding Arthur, you have to take into the account that they know way more than us.
If they are willing to sell Arthur, there could be:
1. technical reasons=maybe they realized that he is limited in attack and their opinion is that he will never improve too much
2. physical reasons=he has a horrible stamina since always, he is quite slow, he is dead tired after 8 minutes, he has weight problems
3. off field problems=scooter, snowboarding, partying, Neymar. And it is quite possible that STDs were actually=STDs and the staff had enough of him.

So, in general, we don't need more oldies.
On the other hand, if the board would trade Arthur for Pjanic, then they know WAY MORE than the average Barcaforum fan who think that Arthur is our future.

 

[MTL_Barca]

You don't have to kick out anyone above 30 or something, it doesn't have to be the asshole way. There should be a middle way, but that would require a good coach and good transfers. Barca mostly failed in both categories for years.

With all the money spent and the amount of players signed we should at least see some kind of healthy competition, it's really not that crazy to expect that. It isn't disrespectful to have another decent striker, it also isn't disrespectful to expect veterans to run, train and perform.

It worked with Xavi, not because he was forced out by some asshole but because Rakitic simply took his spot. A fair coaching decision. And players shouldn't be immune to that kind of decision just because they aren't 34+ yet.

That's what should happen to Pique, Alba, Busi, Suarez etc. The biggest mistakes weren't necessarily made in the starting 11 or at least not only at the positions that are occupied by the seniors. The players that were signed just aren't good enough. There is no CB to possibly take Piques spot, there aren't 3 fitting and good midfielders that don't include one old turtle, there is no real alternative to Suarez etc and on top of it we still don't have a great LCB, LW or RB.

Now the question is if that is intentional to please the seniors or just incompetence. Probably a mix of both.

Just look at the last 3 years. Besides Frenkie and maybe Arthur there is basically not a single signing that looks actually promising to be an important part of the team these coming years. Lenglet and Semedo are alright, Vidal old, Griezmann doesn't really fit, Coutinho flopped, Firpo doesn't look very promising, Braithwaite was an expensive bandaid etc.

That money probably could've been spent way better on different players. Another coach could've also made the difference. We're at a point where there are simply too many old players now especially in midfield, so no matter what the concerns with Arthur may be that shouldn't be enough to where replacing him becomes a priority. Not with 32 year old Rakitic, soon to be 32 year old Busquets and 33 year old Vidal still around. And unless they all leave bringing in another 30 year old would be the icing on the cake for Bartos board.

 

[mc_lovin]

The whole Xavi-Rakitic situation was pretty much the blueprint for how to handle aging players.

I personally didnt mind Suarez as much as others here did the last few years, and think we are right on track with looking for a substitute now (there werent convincing options before).

Alba (though I dislike him) and Pique (whos has been very dependable) are the least of our problems. Getting an average defender like Lenglet was more problematic for our CL campaigns.

Busquets will be our biggest challange. We need to be cynical. And we already have the perfect replacement. But then again I am perfectly fine with him taking a lesser role next season - we cant replace them all perfectly as soon as they show weakness.


In short: our transfer policy fucked us more than our Seniors. We were not able to improve the team in any meaningful way in other positions apart form Suarez, Busquets, Alba, Pique and Messi. A better LW, CB, midfielder or fullback and Im pretty sure we would have gone past Liverpool/Roma.

 

[vuji_31]

Yeah... I don't want De Jong start thinking about exit, because he is not playing on position where is he best in the world.

People don't realize that would solve half of our problems , when teams are pressing us.

I hope so Busqets and our coach will be realistic , and realize that he is not first option for our CDM position.

 

[BBZ8800]

That money probably could've been spent way better on different players. Another coach could've also made the difference. We're at a point where there are simply too many old players now especially in midfield, so no matter what the concerns with Arthur may be that shouldn't be enough to where replacing him becomes a priority. Not with 32 year old Rakitic, soon to be 32 year old Busquets and 33 year old Vidal still around. And unless they all leave bringing in another 30 year old would be the icing on the cake for Bartos board.

If you ever made some gambling investing decisions.
Or if you have played any manager game, then you would see that selling Arthur isn't that crazy at all.

Here is why, this is just my estimation of numbers, but you'll get a point.
Rakitic:
currenty quality 4/10.
His future potential: zero, he will decline even more.
How much we can earn? Probably zero or 5-10m at max, but I doubt that we would earn anything on him in this age and with coronavirus situation.

Busi:
Current quality: 5/10
Future potential: zero, he is old and declining.
How much we can earn? Similar to Raki, probably nothing and he won't leave. Plus nobody needs his type of a player except Barca.

Vidal:
Current quality: 5/10
Future potential: 1/10. He can play probably slightly longer than Busi and Raki. But not too much.
How much can we earn? Similar to Busi and Raki, 5-10M at max.

Frenkie:
Current quality: 8/10
Future potential: 10/10
How much can we earn? Probably around 80-100M, but it is not worth to sell him since he is only class young midfielder which we have.

Arthur:
Current quality: 6/10
Future potential: 7/10
How much can we earn? 50-60M.

Do you see my point?
Frenkie is not for sale.
Other players who are old like Busi, Raki, Vidal are horrible, declining, under high wages and NO ONE will buy them.
The only option left for selling in midfield is: Arthur.
He is the only player on whom we can earn a lot.
And on the other hand, if the estimation of our staff is that Arthur is meh (which I agree) and that he can't improve too much due to his natural lack of creativity, poor physique, poor pace, horrible stamina, weight problems, tons of injuries and off field scandals.
It is not as if we have a world class potential in Arthur (that opinion exists only among romantic fans).
And then when you sum: we can earn a lot on him, he probably won't improve past his current level, he is injured all the time, off field problems.

He is similar to let's say Semedo.
Semedo is not bad, but not good either.
He is here for 2 years and probably won't improve anymore. It is what it is.
Since Semedo isn't any better than Roberto, it isn't THAT CRAZY to sell Semedo for let's say 50 millions and then:
1. invest that money in other positions
2. play some La Masia kid as a RB sub
3. or buy a new RB for the same amount and hope that he will be better than Semedo (which shouldn't be too hard)

Or Digne or Cillessen.
Not bad, not good enough.
Yet, you can earn a lot on those players and balance your books.

It worked with Xavi, not because he was forced out by some asshole but because Rakitic simply took his spot. A fair coaching decision. And players shouldn't be immune to that kind of decision just because they aren't 34+ yet.

Xavi was 34 and a half when we bought Rakitic.
No offense, but Xavi was quite horrible in Tata's season.

Iniesta also stayed till 34 and 2 Months.
And was also a huge liability in European matches in the last 2 seasons.

Busi and Raki are 32.
It is hard to say that we did an awesome thing with 34 years old Iniesta and 35 and a half Xavi (when he left) and that we are doing horribly wrong with these 32 years old.

 

[vuji_31]

BBZ it is not problem to sell Arthur and Semedo.

Problem is that it could be swap Arthur for Pjanic who is 30 years old, and Semedo with Todibo plus money for Lautaro.

I would say yes to sell them for 100mil both.

 

[MTL_Barca]

If you ever made some gambling investing decisions.
Or if you have played any manager game, then you would see that selling Arthur isn't that crazy at all.

Here is why, this is just my estimation of numbers, but you'll get a point.
Rakitic:
currenty quality 4/10.
His future potential: zero, he will decline even more.
How much we can earn? Probably zero or 5-10m at max, but I doubt that we would earn anything on him in this age and with coronavirus situation.

Busi:
Current quality: 5/10
Future potential: zero, he is old and declining.
How much we can earn? Similar to Raki, probably nothing and he won't leave. Plus nobody needs his type of a player except Barca.

Vidal:
Current quality: 5/10
Future potential: 1/10. He can play probably slightly longer than Busi and Raki. But not too much.
How much can we earn? Similar to Busi and Raki, 5-10M at max.

Frenkie:
Current quality: 8/10
Future potential: 10/10
How much can we earn? Probably around 80-100M, but it is not worth to sell him since he is only class young midfielder which we have.

Arthur:
Current quality: 6/10
Future potential: 7/10
How much can we earn? 50-60M.

Do you see my point?
Frenkie is not for sale.
Other players who are old like Busi, Raki, Vidal are horrible, declining, under high wages and NO ONE will buy them.
The only option left for selling in midfield is: Arthur.
He is the only player on whom we can earn a lot.
And on the other hand, if the estimation of our staff is that Arthur is meh (which I agree) and that he can't improve too much due to his natural lack of creativity, poor physique, poor pace, horrible stamina, weight problems, tons of injuries and off field scandals.
It is not as if we have a world class potential in Arthur (that opinion exists only among romantic fans).
And then when you sum: we can earn a lot on him, he probably won't improve past his current level, he is injured all the time, off field problems.

He is similar to let's say Semedo.
Semedo is not bad, but not good either.
He is here for 2 years and probably won't improve anymore. It is what it is.
Since Semedo isn't any better than Roberto, it isn't THAT CRAZY to sell Semedo for let's say 50 millions and then:
1. invest that money in other positions
2. play some La Masia kid as a RB sub
3. or buy a new RB for the same amount and hope that he will be better than Semedo (which shouldn't be too hard)

Or Digne or Cillessen.
Not bad, not good enough.
Yet, you can earn a lot on those players and balance your books.



Xavi was 34 and a half when we bought Rakitic.
No offense, but Xavi was quite horrible in Tata's season.

Iniesta also stayed till 34 and 2 Months.
And was also a huge liability in European matches in the last 2 seasons.

Busi and Raki are 32.
It is hard to say that we did an awesome thing with 34 years old Iniesta and 35 and a half Xavi (when he left) and that we are doing horribly wrong with these 32 years old.

I see your point, but i disagree. You focus too much on Arthur here, but i think it's more important to take all midfielders into consideration and especially how they would replace Arthur. I'm not 100% against the idea of selling/trading Arthur in general, i don't think he'll be a future Xavi or something but i'm against selling him given the current circumstances surrounding the midfield and the people responsible for bringing in new players.

First thing, we all agree the midfield needs to be reinforcement sooner than later right? 3 starting positions means there should be at least 4 fitting, good players available at all times. So aiming for 5 in total is probably better. If we stick to your numbers then that means Arthur is currently better than all of the midfielders besides Frenkie and he will continue to be for the coming years where the older players will further decline. So even if we can replace Arthur with someone better now (let's say currently 7 on the quality scale) then it still won't be enough. The midfield will still lack reinforcements, and will still be old. So we'll need at least 2 young quality midfielders at once, but here is the problem...is this realistic in any way? I don't think so. I mean we talk about the same people that are responsible for the current disaster midfield in the first place. That Pjanic is the rumored replacement and it wouldn't even surprise any Barca fan says enough there.

I have absolutely zero faith that selling Arthur would suddenly lead to reconstruction of the midfield, i don't even think they could find someone better. 50-60M for Arthur sounds nice but also optimistic, and even if they'd manage to get that they would just throw the money at PSG for Neymar or overpay for some other bum but i won't even dream about them actually somehow signing 2 good (better than Arthur) young midfielders. 0% chance. Won't happen. And if that doesn't happen then there is no point in selling Arthur.

Honestly i have so little faith in these people that i'm at a point where i kinda hope for no transfers at all

Edit: For the Xavi example yes he was old, but in general that's a way players can be phased out without outright forcing them to leave. The old players only have as much power as you give them. 32 year old lazy underperformers running the club from the dressing room isn't some kind of universal football law. Barca brought that on itself and it partly could've been prevented imo. Just 1 or 2 changes and our view on the veterans could be totally different. But instead the club wasted 400M on LWs.

 

[Messi983]

Alba (though I dislike him) and Pique (whos has been very dependable) are the least of our problems. Getting an average defender like Lenglet was more problematic for our CL campaigns.

I think Lenglet is a good CB but the problem I see is he's not a perfect partner for Pique because they are both too slow. I bet he would look a lot better alongside a faster CB (the same for Pique). So from this standpoint maybe it would be better to bring a different type of defender but remember he was primarily bought as a backup to Umtiti before we know Umtiti's career will be ruined (which the club can't be blamed for). Umtiti was 24 at that point and signed a new contract the same summer so we didn't look for his longterm replacement or maybe we would brought someone else.

So while some of our transfers turned out bad I think we also had a bad luck in recent years. If Umtiti would stay healthy nobody would complain about Lenglet's signing because he would do his job when needed (he's good enough to be a 3rd CB). Pique, Todibo, a healthy Umtiti and Lenglet would be a pretty good CB rotation.

The same for Dembele. Did we overpay for him? Surely. But if he would stay healthy for the last three seasons a lot of things could be different. Not just because of his potential positive impact on the field but him staying healthy could affect some of our other transfer decisions as well. Yeah, Coutinho would probably still be signed and failed but would we still buy Griezmann last year and now try to buy Lautaro? I doubt. We probably also wouldn't buy Malcom and could use those 40m on improving another position. Now there is obviously possible Dembele would flop even without injuries but in that case we would have much better chances to sell him for a solid money if we'd decide to do that.

Busquets will be our biggest challange. We need to be cynical. And we already have the perfect replacement. But then again I am perfectly fine with him taking a lesser role next season - we cant replace them all perfectly as soon as they show weakness.

You're fine but he's not, that's a problem. He'll stay a starter no matter what. First, because he's one of the amigos and second, because we now have a coach who has publicly announced his "love" for Busi before he got here. There is no way Setien will bench Busi even if we'll have better options.

In short: our transfer policy fucked us more than our Seniors. We were not able to improve the team in any meaningful way in other positions apart form Suarez, Busquets, Alba, Pique and Messi. A better LW, CB, midfielder or fullback and Im pretty sure we would have gone past Liverpool/Roma.

As I've said in another thread a few days ago I believe our biggest mistakes over the last 2-3 years were renewing contracts of the likes of Busi and Alba. Suarez's contract was last extended in December 2016 when he was still a part of arguably the best attack in football history so I won't include him here.

I think our signings (besides the most important 100m signings not panning out for different reasons) in last 4-5 years were not really as bad as people complain about. The likes of Paco and Digne were very solid backups (so exactly what we bought them for and then later sold for a solid money) but they decided to move on because they knew they would never get ahead of our seniors even if they would overperformed them. And two years later the same can still be said about any potential new signing at CB, LB, DM and ST positions. And here lies our biggest problem that has set us years back and still will in future until these players are not gone.

Of course hindsight is always 20/20 but I think in retrospective it would be the better if in 2017 when Neymar left we would commit to a rebuild by also selling some of the aging players instead of renewing their contracts. We've had money to bring 4-5 younger players and improve overall quality (or at least depth) of the team. But then again, bringing a 20 yo Dembele as a potential future star and 25 yo Coutinho who should've entered his prime years could also be considered as a rebuild while trying to stay competitive. From a financial standpoint I also understand the club's decision to bring these two players instead of 4-5 lesser known cheaper players (and odds at least one of them would turn out to be a longterm starter would improve drastically). We've lost a lost of money with one of our stars gone and we tried to replace him. They've just choosed the wrong players but at that time both Dembele and Coutinho's signings seemed reasonable. Yes, overpaid but they could still be looked at as potential Neymar and Iniesta's replacement. What we couldn't know is that Dembele will become injury prone (he didn't have any previous injury concerns; it's not like a Vermaelen signing in the past who Zubi decided to buy against the doctors advice and it was totally our responsibility when he obviously stayed injured for most of his time here as well) and as I've said above a lot of our other decisions could be different if he'd stay healthy.

Another thing to consider is I think after Neymar has left Messi seriously consider leaving as well. So if we'd decide to do a rebuild and sell some of the older players at that point it's very possible he'd be gone as well. And because Bartomeu didn't want to go into the history as the president who has let Messi go he promised him to keep his friends around naively believing they can return to the old glory. Which we eventually did. And with that move the club gave the players ultimate power and led us to a situation we're currently in and will be for a few more years until their contracts expires.

Of course things could also go a different way if the club would be better prepared and wouldn't made panic signings but things are much more complex than just to put all the blame on Bartomeu&Co. They are far from perfect and made a lot of poor decisions but there are also some things they're not fully responsible for (like Neymar backstabbing us and Umtiti and Dembele's injuries) that just didn't go the right way but drastically changed our recent history and brought us to this current situation.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

BBZ it is not problem to sell Arthur and Semedo.

Problem is that it could be swap Arthur for Pjanic who is 30 years old, and Semedo with Todibo plus money for Lautaro.

I would say yes to sell them for 100mil both.

Exactly. It's horrible idea. Sell every player with some value.

 

[serghei]

It is easy to say that.

If you look at a history, all teams who won too many trophies, paid the price later on.
Galacticos won 3 CLs from 1998-2002 and then it was impossible to say: fuck off to those superstars.
And thanks to Galacticos, Barca returned to a scene with Laporta, Rijkaard, Ronnie, Etoo and young hungry players who didn't win any single trophy.
But look at that era: Galacticos had their hands tied with the old players.
And Barca was able to turn the page since we were the ultimate shit for 4-5 years.

Ac Milan. They were winning everything in 90s and early 00s.
And then they kept their oldies for too long and paid the price.

Man Utd under Ferguson.
Ferguson wasn't able to say fuck off to his legends like Giggs and Scholes and kept them for way too long.

Barca today: the same story.

Can anyone find a single similar story: where a team has won everything and where their board was able to turn the page easily, sell/sack all players and start with new gen of players?
You won't find it.
Why?
Because if you (the board) do that, you will be an ultimate asshole.
And you will send the message: you will be here until you are winning and as soon as you are not young anymore, we will get rid of you.

To some extent, Pep is doing that and this is why I consider him as an asshole.
He stays at a club only for 3-4-5 years.
He builds a team of a young, hungry players.
Then he wins everything and then he has 2 options:
1. stay and keep those players who will decline fast due to physical and mental exhaustion
2. or run away to a new club and repeat the same

So, I don't know why are people comparing our club with Liverpool or other clubs.
We are in a different situation.
We were never in the same situation in our history: to have so many (old) legends in a club.



I agree about more veterans.
But regarding Arthur, you have to take into the account that they know way more than us.
If they are willing to sell Arthur, there could be:
1. technical reasons=maybe they realized that he is limited in attack and their opinion is that he will never improve too much
2. physical reasons=he has a horrible stamina since always, he is quite slow, he is dead tired after 8 minutes, he has weight problems
3. off field problems=scooter, snowboarding, partying, Neymar. And it is quite possible that STDs were actually=STDs and the staff had enough of him.

So, in general, we don't need more oldies.
On the other hand, if the board would trade Arthur for Pjanic, then they know WAY MORE than the average Barcaforum fan who think that Arthur is our future.

I agree man, I said in another comment after that one which you quoted, that it's not easy to do it, but in our case, 3 years have already passed since we've been exposed in CL. 0-7 vs PSG and Juventus happened in early 2017. We're now in 2020 and things are even worse. So it's time we move in the right direction. It will take another 2 to fully integrate new pieces. 5 years is enough to change a cycle if you know what you are doing.

As other have said, Arthur can be traded. I don't agree, because he has more potential and is already better than almost everyone we can realistically sign of his age. But if anyone pays 70m or so, I guess you can take that money and buy another top young midfielder. But if you trade him for Pjanic, it's a possibility that they know more about Arthur than us, but it's even a bigger possibility they are incompetent. It's not because they trade Arthur, but because they will do it for Rakitic's twin brother.

I would say yes to sell them for 100mil both.

Normally yes, but these clowns will invest that 100m. in some stupid deal. 100m in the hands of incompetent clowns is nothing these days. This is not 2005-2008 anymore.

@DonAK was right, considering who are doing the transfers, best case scenario is sell and buy no one.