Arthur

[mc_lovin]

Some people here have an incredibly hard time with something called context. We played a very slow game (maybe by design, maybe as a consequence of Leganes appraoch) with each midfielder having at least two, close players in front of them (just rewatch the game, or look for a compilation of Arthur on youtube). Add to that our by far worst attacking lineup in ages* and you get a "sterile" looking midfield. And yet, I was never in doubt that we would win yesterday. He did his part. Maybe a more specialised attacking midfielder could have done more, but not a CM.

*since Tatas infamous Iniesta-Fabregas-Messi frontline (or Neymar on the right). And guess what, even Xavi looked sterile back then.

 

[fergus90]

Some people here have an incredibly hard time with something called context. We played a very slow game (maybe by design, maybe as a consequence of Leganes appraoch) with each midfielder having at least two, close players in front of them (just rewatch the game, or look for a compilation of Arthur on youtube). Add to that our by far worst attacking lineup in ages* and you get a "sterile" looking midfield. And yet, I was never in doubt that we would lose points yesterday. He did his part. Maybe a more specialised attacking midfielder could have done more, but not a CM.

*since Tatas infamous Iniesta-Fabregas-Messi frontline (or Neymar on the right). And guess what, even Xavi looked sterile back then.

I think the early comparisons with Xavi have created an unrealistic benchmark for him to be held against. He has his good traits, whilst other areas are lacking. But as I stated above, for a guy who came from Gremio where 12 months prior he was unknown, has doubled his value and overall he has done well.
He definitely needs to be paired with an attacking midfielder, a midfield of Rakitic-Busquets-Arthur is always too slow to circulate the ball in my opinion.

 

[Gaudi]

Some people here have an incredibly hard time with something called context. We played a very slow game (maybe by design, maybe as a consequence of Leganes appraoch) with each midfielder having at least two, close players in front of them (just rewatch the game, or look for a compilation of Arthur on youtube). Add to that our by far worst attacking lineup in ages* and you get a "sterile" looking midfield. And yet, I was never in doubt that we would win yesterday. He did his part. Maybe a more specialised attacking midfielder could have done more, but not a CM.

*since Tatas infamous Iniesta-Fabregas-Messi frontline (or Neymar on the right). And guess what, even Xavi looked sterile back then.

There is no like anymore so I had to qoute to say I completely agree. This is something I'm saying for many years, in this "system" noone can look good. I would like that all those who think otherwise rewatch the game and pause it everytime someone has the ball. Than take entire minute and try to figure out best way to pass it, you'll find no space, no movement at all and no real solutions. And in the game you have seconds.

 

[mc_lovin]

He definitely needs to be paired with an attacking midfielder, a midfield of Rakitic-Busquets-Arthur is always too slow to circulate the ball in my opinion.

I dont think we need an attacking midfielder as long as we win games like yesterday. I would rather have Frenkie and Arthur as CMs vs pressing teams than the likes of Ruiz, Havertz and so on. 2CMs+1DM is the way to go in modern football.

We seriously have to fix our frontline though. Griezmann is the one net negative I take away from yesterday.

 

[serghei]

I dont think we need an attacking midfielder as long as we win games like yesterday. I would rather have Frenkie and Arthur as CMs vs pressing teams than the likes of Ruiz, Havertz and so on. 2CMs+1DM is the way to go in modern football.

We seriously have to fix our frontline though. Griezmann is the one net negative I take away from yesterday.

Good posts. Glad some still see this and understand this.

Forwards in generally need to run the channels, move a lot, wait for service from midfielders (while also doing he required work off the ball to get access to said teammates), and win duels in the last third of the pitch. But at Barcelona, they leave their positions constantly, fucking up the midfield's passing options, and have very poorly synchronized movements. They basically come down looking for the ball and asking ball to feet to run the play. There is no play-making coming from midfield because Messi and Suarez have taken over the chance creation task. I bet both have by far the most assists and key passes.

So, excuse me, it's kind of stupid to blame Arthur and De Jong because they don't play through balls, when the team has never gave them this role in the first place. For once.

How the hell can you expect these players to do that, when Messi 90% the time asks ball to feet vacating his advanced position and dropping almost near Busquets, and Suarez only makes runs when the ball is at Messi's feet?

Makes zero sense. Football does not work like that. We are playing through the Messi-Suarez bromance, with some contribution from Vidal, since he is a box to box midfielder with a good scoring rate.

There is no like anymore so I had to qoute to say I completely agree. This is something I'm saying for many years, in this "system" noone can look good. I would like that all those who think otherwise rewatch the game and pause it everytime someone has the ball. Than take entire minute and try to figure out best way to pass it, you'll find no space, no movement at all and no real solutions. And in the game you have seconds.

Defensive workhorses with end product look good. Every other profile would struggle.

 

[Gaudi]

For this type of system we need 6 top defensive and great tehnical players and 4 magicians. If we had a proper system we wouldn't need that of course.
That is why I want Ney, even though I don't rate him as a person, but without movement you need a player that can individually dribble past 3 players.

Or, we need a top coach and a better, modern system that actually has some dynamic.

 

[BBZ8800]

Some people here have an incredibly hard time with something called context. We played a very slow game (maybe by design, maybe as a consequence of Leganes appraoch) with each midfielder having at least two, close players in front of them (just rewatch the game, or look for a compilation of Arthur on youtube). Add to that our by far worst attacking lineup in ages* and you get a "sterile" looking midfield. And yet, I was never in doubt that we would win yesterday. He did his part. Maybe a more specialised attacking midfielder could have done more, but not a CM.

*since Tatas infamous Iniesta-Fabregas-Messi frontline (or Neymar on the right). And guess what, even Xavi looked sterile back then.

Look at his career.
He plays the same all the time.

Some reply: he was awesome at Copa America.
Lol.

At Copa America, all teams plays some weird suicidial-kung fu football and all players run around like headless chickens (like Arturo Vidal).
So, basically, in South American NT matches, players are running at you like crazy, and the most important trait in that type of football is to avoid players (like in slalom in skiing or like in some 80s arcade game).
Of course that Arthur looks good in that type of a suicidal football.

But then, when you put him in Barca's team against parked buses, he is clueless.
No one is running at him.
There is no need for his press resistance.
And then he just dwells on a ball and recycles possession.

It is not a surprise that EV subbed him during a halftime lots of times last season when we needed a win.
Why?
Because he is useless when we face a parked bus.

The only matches where he thrives are crazy South Americam matches and matches against teams who press us and attack us.
And the famous CL match at Anfield.
Or when we lead 2:0 and we need to slow down and keep possession.

In those matches, Arthur would be awesome.
In matches at Camp Nou, at 0:0, even Alena and Puig, whom I don't rate at all are Maradonas compared to him.

And NO, it is not because no one moves.
It is because Arthur doesn't have that creative instinct.

Look at a little Riki Puig.
All of his actions are: take the ball, run forward, try to create something.
Why?
= because those are his natural instincts

Arthur's natural instincts are:
-- avoid a player
-- make a turn
-- dwell on a ball
-- make a sideway pass
-- say: calma, calma

 

[serghei]

For this type of system we need 6 top defensive and great tehnical players and 4 magicians. If we had a proper system we wouldn't need that of course.
That is why I want Ney, even though I don't rate him as a person, but without movement you need a player that can individually dribble past 3 players.

Or, we need a top coach and a better, modern system that actually has some dynamic.

Yea, pretty much the situation we find ourselves in. Just give the ball to the magicians upfront and then run like crazy and get it back when they lose it due to their attacking moves.

 

[mc_lovin]

Makes zero sense. Football does not work like that. We are playing through the Messi-Suarez bromance, with some contribution from Vidal, since he is a box to box midfielder with a good scoring rate.

Which is not an unreasonable approach as long as Suarez and Messi deliver us titles.

For this type of system we need 6 top defensive and great tehnical players and 4 magicians. If we had a proper system we wouldn't need that of course.
That is why I want Ney, even though I don't rate him as a person, but without movement you need a player that can individually dribble past 3 players.

Or, we need a top coach and a better, modern system that actually has some dynamic.

We would get stuck with Neymar when we could actually try to properly rebuild post Messi. No thnaks to that.


@BBZ: We fundamentally disagree with everything related to football. Makes the discussion redundant and useless (I swear I have seen the same post pretty much a hundred times). I wont change your opinion and you wont change mine.

 

[serghei]

Which is not an unreasonable approach as long as Suarez and Messi deliver us titles.

Yea, I have accepted this. If we can go out from CL without an embarrassment and win the La Liga title, it's very good. If not though, if we win nothing this season and the next, then it's time for tough calls, eventually meaning letting go of most legends including Messi.

Let them go at it as long as they can bring titles.

 

[JohnN]

In all honesty, Riqui looked better. Perhaps the timing or the subs had an impact too though.

 

[BusiTheKing]

Not great but without a doubt the best of the three mid starters last night. Busi neglecting his role as pivot too often and Rakitic simply not making any active runs except for those stupid ones down the line, which have never ever even once worked.

 

[Zebulun]

Look at his career.
He plays the same all the time.

Some reply: he was awesome at Copa America.
Lol.

At Copa America, all teams plays some weird suicidial-kung fu football and all players run around like headless chickens (like Arturo Vidal).
So, basically, in South American NT matches, players are running at you like crazy, and the most important trait in that type of football is to avoid players (like in slalom in skiing or like in some 80s arcade game).
Of course that Arthur looks good in that type of a suicidal football.

But then, when you put him in Barca's team against parked buses, he is clueless.
No one is running at him.
There is no need for his press resistance.
And then he just dwells on a ball and recycles possession.

It is not a surprise that EV subbed him during a halftime lots of times last season when we needed a win.
Why?
Because he is useless when we face a parked bus.

The only matches where he thrives are crazy South Americam matches and matches against teams who press us and attack us.
And the famous CL match at Anfield.
Or when we lead 2:0 and we need to slow down and keep possession.

In those matches, Arthur would be awesome.
In matches at Camp Nou, at 0:0, even Alena and Puig, whom I don't rate at all are Maradonas compared to him.

And NO, it is not because no one moves.
It is because Arthur doesn't have that creative instinct.

Look at a little Riki Puig.
All of his actions are: take the ball, run forward, try to create something.
Why?
= because those are his natural instincts

Arthur's natural instincts are:
-- avoid a player
-- make a turn
-- dwell on a ball
-- make a sideway pass
-- say: calma, calma

within the context of this current team, i'd say you're 100% right, he does seem one dimensional. but we dont know how he'd look in a rejuvenated team, one where the forwards make runs and the fullbacks arent inconsistent. right now he's basically a brand new headlight in an old car with an old battery.

 

[vuji_31]

I like Puig. I think he us lot more talented then Alena

 

[vegitot]

Puig is more like of an attacking midfielder compared to Arthur. He tends to run forward,dribble...which is attacking midfielder's trait. Right now we need that kind of player.