Barça's Transfers and Rumors

[Barcafan 2304]

Because it's about the here and now? We could delve into the past and all them statistics and van persie will come out on top all the time. I don't think anyone is suggesting that when both at their best, van persie wasn't the better player but the game isn't played in the past or on stats. In the here and now, nolito is the man in form, has been playing regularly and offers more in the future than RVP.

 

[BBZ8800]

Because it's about the here and now? We could delve into the past and all them statistics and van persie will come out on top all the time. I don't think anyone is suggesting that when both at their best, van persie wasn't the better player but the game isn't played in the past or on stats. In the here and now, nolito is the man in form, has been playing regularly and offers more in the future than RVP.

Yes, but the board and some others look at it this way:
1. Persie:
= has proven that he can play at 100/100 world class level
-- he is not there anymore, but he was, plus, he can still play probably at 90/100 (just an example)

2. Nolito:
= he has NEVER played at 100/100 level
-- he is at 80-90-ish currently
-- can he play better? Maybe
-- can he improve? Who knows?
-- how will he perform in CL semifinals? Nobody knows

On the other hand, it is pretty easy to guess what you will get from VPersie in CL finals if someone from MSN will be injured.

Imo, it is somewhat similar to Mathieu/Verm against Bartra
-- Verm and Mathieu have proven over their career that they CAN play good on the highest level
-- maybe they are not there currently, but they HAVE BEEN and there are decent chances that they will be THAT good again

Then, you have guys like Bartra.
-- he has never been (yet) on the highest level
-- will he get there? Who knows?
-- when will he get there? Nobody knows
-- will he be good enough to play against Bayern in CL semis? 90% not

It is a battle between bunch of ifs and maybes versus a world class proven matchwinner who was on top for 10-ish years.
Nolito is the best player in Celta? Well, Halil is the best player in Sporting, if you get my point.
This is Barca.

Persie is a much safer option.
With much bigger chances that he will offer exactly what Barca needs in key matches.
Plus, the fee is 3M versus 18M. (I know, Persie will probably have slightly bigger wages...)

 

[Jägermeister]

Ok.
Some fans here are saying that Nolito is better/equal.

Nolito:
-- is 29 years old
-- he played 35 matches for Benfica, 17 for Granada and 80-ish for Celta

Van Persie:
-- 32 years old
-- played 200-ish matches for Arsenal
-- 86 for Man. Utd
-- and scored 144 goals for Man. Utd and Arsenal combined
-- also, he played 101 NT matches for Netherlands, scored 50 goals
-- he played on last 5 world cups and Euro's combined, also playing in a World cup final in 2010', being on of key players for Netherlands

Now, while Nolito is a good player:
1. he never played for any major team
2. his Champions league experience is zero
3. his NT experience compared with Van Persie's is zero
4. his general playing experience on the highest level is zero
5. his experience in winning trophies is zero

Nolito isn't exactly 23 years old so that he has 10-12 years infront of him where will get the experience on the highest level.
He is only 3 years younger than Van Persie, and Van Persie is a proven player with enormous advantage in experience (and a proven quality and being a match winner) on the highest level.

So, I don't get why the majority of our fans is so biased towards La Liga-midtable team-forward Nolito :/

But historic stats do not define how good a player is today.

 

[silvia]

Yes, but the board and some others look at it this way:
1. Persie:
= has proven that he can play at 100/100 world class level
-- he is not there anymore, but he was, plus, he can still play probably at 90/100 (just an example)

2. Nolito:
= he has NEVER played at 100/100 level
-- he is at 80-90-ish currently
-- can he play better? Maybe
-- can he improve? Who knows?
-- how will he perform in CL semifinals? Nobody knows

On the other hand, it is pretty easy to guess what you will get from VPersie in CL finals if someone from MSN will be injured.

Imo, it is somewhat similar to Mathieu/Verm against Bartra
-- Verm and Mathieu have proven over their career that they CAN play good on the highest level
-- maybe they are not there currently, but they HAVE BEEN and there are decent chances that they will be THAT good again

Then, you have guys like Bartra.
-- he has never been (yet) on the highest level
-- will he get there? Who knows?
-- when will he get there? Nobody knows
-- will he be good enough to play against Bayern in CL semis? 90% not

It is a battle between bunch of ifs and maybes versus a world class proven matchwinner who was on top for 10-ish years.
Nolito is the best player in Celta? Well, Halil is the best player in Sporting, if you get my point.
This is Barca.

Persie is a much safer option.
With much bigger chances that he will offer exactly what Barca needs in key matches.
Plus, the fee is 3M versus 18M. (I know, Persie will probably have slightly bigger wages...)

Nolito is x200% safer option. VP is not even a bench material for barca while Nolito is good to bench current Neymar though Nolito already knows the situation and willing to take a bench
plus if VP injured he will blow the whole season like Verminator
I thought the rumour and your opinion was a joke. and Halil and Nolito... how can you compare them???
Now i know the board is really dumb... i rather give that minute to Munir than MLS level VP

 

[Barcafan 2304]

And again you can write the big long posts and produce stats but the argument remains the same. It's about the here and now and van persie has been poor for a while. Yes, he was a very good player at his peak but he hasn't been at his peak for quite some time and it's very questionable if he can get back to the kind of form he produced in his pomp. Stats can come thick and fast and that's all well and good but it is about what's happening in the here and now

 

[BBZ8800]

But historic stats do not define how good a player is today.

They don't show how good a player is today, but they do show what the player is capable to do.
With Nolito, you can't know whether he is a 1-2 Season wonder, or a guy who plays well only in midtable teams when the whole team is built around him.
With Persie, you know what you are getting when he plays in the world class teams.

An analogy and a question for you:
-- imagine a year 2021:
-- Messi is 34
-- and he is way past his prime
-- and now, our board has some new MSN-ish trio, like Neymar-and two random new superstars for 100 Millions
-- now, imagine that a 34 years old Messi is at 70% of his best form
-- and then, our board needs to decide whether they will buy some Nolito (from the future) from Celta
= or, they can keep the 34 years old Messi as our 4th option?

Imagine that Nolito from the future (still 29 years old) is a hot, in-form Spanish player, but without any experience on the highest level.
While Messi is Messi. Not as good as on his prime, but he can ALWAYS decide ANY match in a second with his enormous skills and experience in 100s of similar key CL matches.

So, you see, I would always rather take a 34 years old Messi, or a 32 years old VPersie over any random 28-29 years old player from a midtable team.
(I mean, imagine: CL semis against Real Madrid in 2020/21 season, aggregate 2:2 (we are losing on away goals) in the 2nd match, Nou Camp, 70th minute. Would you rather have some "the next" Nolito entering the field, or a 34 years old Messi, who can decide ANY match in just one second, while Nolito would have his debut in key CL matches and nobody knows how he would play and how good he is against the strongest opponents.)

Ok, everyone has their own opinion, but imo, 32 years old VPersie isn't such a bad solution.
I think that the majority is pissed because in general our fans are biased towards younger player, we would always love to see young and fresh players with good potential.
But then, we have already bought a lot of oldies in the last 2-3 Seasons and our team in general is getting older.
So, imo, this is not "only" about Van Persie, but more like an accumulated reaction towards constant buying of older players lately...

Nolito is x200% safer option. VP is not even a bench material for barca while Nolito is good to bench current Neymar though Nolito already knows the situation and willing to take a bench

A few Months ago, Neymar was the 3rd best player in the world, and the only guy ever (bar Messi) who scored 40-50 goals in one season.
And now, Nolito can bench him?

Wait, then Nolito is also close to being the 3rd best player in the world?
Huh...

 

[Barcafan 2304]

Fair enough bbz like you say, each to their own opinion. We will see what happens in january

 

[Cule4life]

But historic stats do not define how good a player is today.

You just countered every bbz argument ever

 

[Flavia]

Can't really compare Van Persie to Messi, c'mon. Van Persie is a shadow of his former self, going downhill fast. He's struggling at Fenerbahçe, while Nolito is having a 2nd great season, playing well also for Spain.

 

[BBZ8800]

Can't really compare Van Persie to Messi, c'mon. Van Persie is a shadow of his former self, going downhill fast. He's struggling at Fenerbahçe, while Nolito is having a 2nd great season, playing well also for Spain.

This is why I offered a 34 years old Messi, to make it more fair.
32 years old Messi is too good for any player in the world.

From how I remember our past, Larsson was way past his prime when he came here.
But he delivered exactly what we needed:
-- helped in 2 La Liga titles RIGHT AWAY and especially in our 2006' CL title when his experience, maturity and calmness turned the final into our win with his 2 assists (when all younger players, mostly failed in that match...)

Henry was waaaaay past his prime (I was personally mad when we bought him, because he was a shadow of his former self, in my opinion, plus we paid like what, 30-ish M for an old Henry).
But in the end, he still helped, and if our team wasn't in such a mess in Rijkaard's 2 final years, he would win even more major trophies with us.

I want to say, similar examples when we bought older world class attackers, weren't too different.
Ok, maybe Larsson or Henry weren't as "bad" as VPersie today, but both of them were far from their prime when they came here...

 

[hulinat]

An analogy and a question for you:
-- imagine a year 2021:
-- Messi is 34
-- and he is way past his prime
-- and now, our board has some new MSN-ish trio, like Neymar-and two random new superstars for 100 Millions
-- now, imagine that a 34 years old Messi is at 70% of his best form
-- and then, our board needs to decide whether they will buy some Nolito (from the future) from Celta
= or, they can keep the 34 years old Messi as our 4th option?
.

What makes you think Messi wouldn't be a starter for us in when he's 34? Xavi and Puyol were starters for Barca when they were 34 and Messi is so versatile that he can play in pretty much every position in midfield or attack.

 

[Flavia]

This is why I offered a 34 years old Messi, to make it more fair.
32 years old Messi is too good for any player in the world.

From how I remember our past, Larsson was way past his prime when he came here.
But he delivered exactly what we needed:
-- helped in 2 La Liga titles RIGHT AWAY and especially in our 2006' CL title when his experience, maturity and calmness turned the final into our win with his 2 assists (when all younger players, mostly failed in that match...)

Henry was waaaaay past his prime (I was personally mad when we bought him, because he was a shadow of his former self, in my opinion, plus we paid like what, 30-ish M for an old Henry).
But in the end, he still helped, and if our team wasn't in such a mess in Rijkaard's 2 final years, he would win even more major trophies with us.

I want to say, similar examples when we bought older world class attackers, weren't too different.
Ok, maybe Larsson or Henry weren't as "bad" as VPersie today, but both of them were far from their prime when they came here...

A 44 year-old Messi could maybe be more fair. 34 to 32 isn't. And the problem is not being far from their prime. Henry and Larsson were still very good players. Henry's 1st season for Barça was very good, he was still starter material. Van Persie is in his 2nd bad season in a row, and he is also injury prone. I can't see any upside in signing him.

 

[khaled_a_d]

They don't show how good a player is today, but they do show what the player is capable to do.

Was ,not is .huge huge difference
What RVP was capable of doing doesn't matter now ,because his leg can't do it anymore . not just because of his age but also due to a decline shown on the pitch .
I would take Maldini when he was 38 over Oleguer at 23-28 for example .I would take 37-38 years old Luka Toni or Klose or Drogba over 34 years old Raul for example .because those players aged better despite Raul probably was better in his prime but he declined massively even in his late 20's .
Nolito is late bloomer ,and right now there is no comparison between him and RVP to even make an argument about . in addition he knows both the club and the coach
RVP is only good choice due to financial situation .he would cost 3M while Nolito would cost 18 . the 15M difference could actually help us get another younger player in summer
For 3M RVP is a good eal

 

[Flavia]

Van Persie would be a 3m deadweight, just sitting on the bench and collecting his checks. And another big wage to add to the team. Really not worth it.

 

[Ghostmaster]

RVP is only good choice due to financial situation .he would cost 3M while Nolito would cost 18 . the 15M difference could actually help us get another younger player in summer
For 3M RVP is a good eal

Yup, you pay 18M for Nolito and he goes straight on bench and when was the last time we actually paid 18M+ for bench warmer?