Cesc Fàbregas

[Stric]

I'm amazed at how every idea of putting Cesc on the pitch is viewed almost as if it was an act of charity for Cesc, and not a way of improving the team.

 

[hellsangel1]

You know, I agree with that. Our possession game was indeed much weaker than it has been in times past. And indeed that makes it much harder for us to calmly create chances in their third and come up with some brilliant chances.

Is that the fault of Cesc? I'm not so sure... not sure it can be all chalked up that. But having Iniesta + Xavi together in the midfield could certainly help for sure. Iniesta IS undoubtedly much better at the tight-space possession game/tiki taka movement.

Villa------Cesc-----Messi
Iniesta - Busquets - Xavi

Could be lethal. I wish the coaches were more adventurous and would try some of these line ups out one day.

It wasn't all Cesc's fault but he was definitely part or it , the fact of the matter is that when you are constantly below par against your biggest rival than tough questions need to be asked. In the past whenever we have won against Madrid, we have been able to dominate in terms of possession and tempo of the game whereas this game was more of a 'madrid-style' game than a Barca style game with slow build up and quick 1-2's in Madrid's half whereas in this game we were trying more throughballs and had to play more 'direct' than what we normally do instead of slowing the game down and completely taking the crowd out of the game.

The problem with playing Cesc is that Iniesta gets pushed out on the wings and in these games we need his legendary link-up play with Messi. Iniesta and Messi are brilliant with their quick one-touch passing in narrow spaces that could unlock the Madrid defense, rather than making way too many aimless forward runs and throughballs.

The other problem is also the lack of pace that Cesc has, Messi would not have allowed Varane to come back and make up that last-ditch challenge and we saw that against Malaga as well, Cesc's lack of speed (in particular dribbling speed) is allowing defenders to close him down.

Against lesser sides, who don't have the pace or the energy to close down space effectively like Madrid, I don't have a problem with Cesc starting but in Clasico's I think he's a little too much of a risk and liability

 

[Vapor]

The solution would be extremely easy tbf.

Villa Cesc Messi
Iniesta Xavi
Busquets​

Cesc will constantly press their centrebacks and not jog around and "conserve energy" like Messi and clog the middle. We will have our best 2 finishers on the left and right who will be constantly fed with Cesc's throughballs and over the top balls which will push Madrid back and disrupt their high pressing out of fear that Messi or Villa might exploit the space at the back. Iniesta will stay in central midfield where he belongs.

This would be the best possible "big game" lineup. Messi in the middle is not cutting it anymore against Madrid. His last few goals were freekicks, penalties and a massive Pepe fuckup. Why do the same thing over and over again if it clearly isn't working?

EXACTLY.

Our current tactic is getting stale and it's GLARINGLY obvious. The reason we did so well with Pep is because Pep was not afraid to take chances and try new things, change em up.

Cesc in the upper-midfield feeding balls and playing attacking interplay with Villa and Messi is just a dream come true. Messi would no longer be crowded out alone in the midfield like he always is nowadays, he can make those diagonal runs from the left he loves and he would be far more unpredictable.

If he Messi is getting shut down up front on the right, he can always drop back and change places with Cesc, assuming the false 9 role in the center and playmaking/providing passes for Fabregas and Villa putting themselves in brilliant scoring positions. And they rotate. It's dynamic, different, and STRONG.
And on top of that it is backed by undoubtedly our best tiki taka/possession midfield... our ultimate stability holy trinity of XavIniestaSquets.

 

[hellsangel1]

It's not sidelining Messi. If anything, it's pushing him closer towards the goal, which is something that's arguably been missing this season. And he did play on the right wing once or twice lately and proved to be even deadlier coming in from the flank. Besides, the entire thing is not about accommodating Cesc, it's about strengthening our attack?!

And I consider that the logic of pushing Messi on the wings will somehow strengthen our attack to be completely mind-boggling.

 

[Stric]

Vapor and Ursegor explained very well why it would strengthen the attack. Feel free to look at their explanations as I agree with them completely. I've been writing a lot of the same lately so I don't want to keep repeating myself.

 

[hellsangel1]

EXACTLY.

Our current tactic is getting stale and it's GLARINGLY obvious. The reason we did so well with Pep is because Pep was not afraid to take chances and try new things, change em up.

Cesc in the upper-midfield feeding balls and playing attacking interplay with Villa and Messi is just a dream come true. Messi would no longer be crowded out alone in the midfield like he always is nowadays, he can make those diagonal runs from the left he loves and he would be far more unpredictable.

If he Messi is getting shut down up front on the right, he can always drop back and change places with Cesc, assuming the false 9 role in the center and playmaking/providing passes for Fabregas and Villa putting themselves in brilliant scoring positions. And they rotate. It's dynamic, different, and STRONG.
And on top of that it is backed by undoubtedly our best tiki taka/possession midfield... our ultimate stability holy trinity of XaviniestaSquets.

Fabregas doesn't have the pace or dribbling speed to play as a false 9 against elite defenders like Varane, Pepe etc. and he's not that clinical of a finisher either which is a big problem as he sometimes gets in Messi's way.

The reason why Messi is having to pick balls from deep is because our midfield isn't able to control possession and tempo of the game like they used to

 

[Flavia]

It could be at least tried once. But I can't see pedro being dropped right now.

 

[hellsangel1]

Fabregas is doing fine but the only problem is that if we play him, we are more vulnerable to counterattacks because of the more direct approach. He's more useful against Madrid when they are tired and we are playing confidently in both attack and defense.

I agree which is why I believe that Cesc should mainly come off the bench in the second half in Clasicos

 

[footyfan]

Just play MVP up front and XIB behind them. Villa is not that bad lol. Once he is sold though, I think we will settle with the current line-up. btw a Villa-Cesc-Messi front 3 is similar to Alexis-Cesc-Messi that we had last year. Alexis in front of Messi (who plays slightly to the right) and Cesc roaming through the centre and left

 

[Stric]

It could be at least tried once. But I can't see pedro being dropped right now.

I can't see Villa being tried in a big game now, honestly... but the same principle could be applied to any right footed finisher. I can even see Pedro-Cesc-Messi in the same system, Pedro has been known to kick ass on the left wing, as well.

 

[Vapor]

Fabregas doesn't have the pace or dribbling speed to play as a false 9 against elite defenders like Varane, Pepe etc. and he's not that clinical of a finisher either which is a big problem as he sometimes gets in Messi's way.

The reason why Messi is having to pick balls from deep is because our midfield isn't able to control possession and tempo of the game like they used to

Which is why I agree we need to have Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets running the midfield. But I personally feel that Fabregas' contribution is more potent and dangerous than Pedro's, and that he is a more valuable asset to have on the field. Yes we need Xaviniesta in midfield to greatly improve our possession game but I think we would be WELL served having Cesc and Villa along with Messi on the attacking front.

And I consider that the logic of pushing Messi on the wings will somehow strengthen our attack to be completely mind-boggling.

We won't know until we try.

It's really not that insane when you think about it... and considering how fluid Barca plays with the total football system, Messi would not be "pushed to the wing" throughout the game, he'd be rotating between the wing, the center forward, and the false 9/AM position. It wouldn't be that much different at all I think.

 

[Youngie]

[YOUTUBE]yhxW5cmFb7E[/youtube]

Yes but it's not like he matches were "easy". Madrid has improved (especially last season).

 

[hellsangel1]

He proved that by scoring Barca's only goal and arguably being our best attacking player, with most chances, several shots at goal, best positioning, great passing, incredible effort, fantastic off-the-ball runs? Sure.

'great passing'..... are you serious???? the amount of balls he lost under pressure particularly in the first half were numerous. This post, clearly shows your ridiculous bias.

 

[Youngie]

I don't get it. Barca are breaking all records with Cesc in the team (and in midfield). What's the problem?

 

[Youngie]

'great passing'..... are you serious???? the amount of balls he lost under pressure particularly in the first half were numerous. This post, clearly shows your ridiculous bias.

Like about 3.

How many "balls" did Messi lose in the game? More than Fab.