Cesc Fàbregas

hellsangel1

New member
Just wanted to point out that the last time Barcelona lost against Real in August, Cesc didn't even play a single minute

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/football/spanish-supercopa/2012-2013/real-madrid-fc-barcelona-520982.html

We were playing with 10 men for much of that game with Marcelo and Ronaldo owning Adriano and countless defensive lapses at the back in the first half.

We actually looked more dangerous in the second half of that game and were able to impose our will playing with 10 men than we did for much of yesterday's game. We actually looked pretty dangerous in the second half and some poor finishing was what cost us in the end during that game. Real even while playing against 10 men were holding on in the end and looked jittery. That was a more heartening performance to see as a Barca fan because in the first half we looked like we were going to get embarassed but we overcame adversity to put up a fighting display while yesterday's game was more of a 'Madrid-style' game and even with all the injuries and suspensions weren't able to take advantage, I mean Madrid had Carvalho and Essien at the back and it's very disheartening to see Barca not being able to take advantage of that.
 
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Noldorin

Guest
You can't forget that Carvalho and Essien are both brutes, and kicked the crap out of our players. They both should have been on at least yellows by the end of the match.
 

Cule4life

The Culest
Against a good high pressing team like Madrid we must play Xavi and Iniesta in the midfield to maintain our possession game. Cesc is too sloppy and slow and just to accommodate him in the team we sacrifice possession and expose ourselves to counter attacks. If he has to play he should be played as a false 9 with Messi to the right and cutting in to avoid being crowded out. He can feed through balls to Messi and Villa. But i know Pedro won't be dropped. So we are stuck in the current formation and Villa is stuck on the bench, which is really sad as he could have toyed with Madrid's defense and not allowed Essien to be a beast. It won't be the worst idea in the world to bench Cesc for one game and change the formation to suit one's opponent. Sir Alex does this all the time.
 

hellsangel1

New member
People keep saying that we need to evolve and change. Yes, Barca needed to evolve and change against teams who were were parking the bus and giving us real trouble in penetration, Barca needed to initiate attacks quicker and be more direct however, Madrid do not park the bus. That is not how they play, we needed Pep's Barca in these games with sustained possession and build-up which would have taken the crowd out of the game and slowed the pace down but the fact that Barca were trying too many through-balls , too many of which ended in broken plays and which resulted in Madrid gaining confidence and launching their counter-attacks. People keep talking about Madrid's (almost second string) backline but they were also without Di Maria and Barca were lucky that Callejon was playing who is just more of a work-horse with little end product.

So often in the past we've seen Barca maintain and sustain possession with quick short one-touch passing to negate Madrid's pressing. This would allow the Barca midfielders to push further up the field and demoralize Madrid and sap their energy instead of trying this more direct style of football which gives Madrid more confidence because it allows them more opportunity to carry out what they are best at. We needed Iniesta to play further alongside Messi and use his skill in tight spaces to unlock the Madrid defense. This game particularly in the second half was more end-to-end and that's not how Barca play or impose their style.

I kind of feel like the same way I did when I said before the start of the season that I don't think Mascherano should start when we're playing against elite attackers or offensive teams. Cesc doesn't have the skill to provide quick passes in tight space under pressure and that's what will be required on more than a few occasions against Madrid. We needed somebody like Iniesta playing in his role that he used to play and not on the wings.....
 

dmode

New member
Barca needed to initiate attacks quicker and be more direct however, Madrid do not park the bus.

Cesc doesn't have the skill to provide quick passes in tight space under pressure and that's what will be required on more than a few occasions against Madrid. We needed somebody like Iniesta playing in his role that he used to play and not on the wings.....

I am a little bit confused. If Madrid doesn't park the bus, why would there be a need for quick passes in tight spaces. In fact, Madrid allows a lot of space to play with. That's why there were a number of open field opportunities and Cesc actually exploited quite well. Because of all the criticism on this thread, I went back and rewatched the game. Here are a couple of links to dailymotion if you want to watch it:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xx...yyyyyy-yyyyyyyyy-1-y-yyyy_sport?search_algo=2
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xx...yyy-2-y-yyyy_sport?search_algo=2#.UQo0nkpdfgA

It appeared to me that Cesc was the most effective offensive player for Barcelona in this game. I counted at least 4 key plays that he created:
1. Took the ball away from Carvalho's backpass, went around the keeper and passed to Xavi. Xavi had an open net to score, but found the only defender on the line (I believe this was an easier opportunity than Pedro's)
2. Scored the only goal
3. Nicely released Messi on what would have been a goal. But the linesman wrongly called offside
4. That dramatic pass to Pedro

This is not even including the couple of half chances he could have converted. There is no evidence to suggest that this formation will not work. Also, remember Real Madrid is a different team. They have Ronaldo. But Ozil is now also a different player. He leads Europe in assists provided. It would be tough to dominate RM going forward, but I believe this lineup can actually win consistently against RM.
 

hellsangel1

New member
There is a difference between a team parking the bus and constricting the middle. The two are not the same thing.

Watching this game again, it's become even more apparent how ineffective he was in this game and his lack of control and technique under pressure. What is even more annoying is the amount of useless and wasteful forward runs he makes. Messi has the ball and he's being closed down by 3 or 4 people and what is he supposed to do ???provide a through pass amongst all those bodies????? Cesc needs to be more patient at times and help Messi out in those situations instead of running straight ahead. This is not the Premier League with it's kick-and-rush style of football, he needs to show more patience and composure and try to link up more with Messi.
 
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Youngie

Guest
Facts is Cesc created more chances for Barca in that game than anyone.
 

Vapor

New member
People keep saying that we need to evolve and change. Yes, Barca needed to evolve and change against teams who were were parking the bus and giving us real trouble in penetration, Barca needed to initiate attacks quicker and be more direct however, Madrid do not park the bus. That is not how they play, we needed Pep's Barca in these games with sustained possession and build-up which would have taken the crowd out of the game and slowed the pace down but the fact that Barca were trying too many through-balls , too many of which ended in broken plays and which resulted in Madrid gaining confidence and launching their counter-attacks. People keep talking about Madrid's (almost second string) backline but they were also without Di Maria and Barca were lucky that Callejon was playing who is just more of a work-horse with little end product.

So often in the past we've seen Barca maintain and sustain possession with quick short one-touch passing to negate Madrid's pressing. This would allow the Barca midfielders to push further up the field and demoralize Madrid and sap their energy instead of trying this more direct style of football which gives Madrid more confidence because it allows them more opportunity to carry out what they are best at. We needed Iniesta to play further alongside Messi and use his skill in tight spaces to unlock the Madrid defense. This game particularly in the second half was more end-to-end and that's not how Barca play or impose their style.

I kind of feel like the same way I did when I said before the start of the season that I don't think Mascherano should start when we're playing against elite attackers or offensive teams. Cesc doesn't have the skill to provide quick passes in tight space under pressure and that's what will be required on more than a few occasions against Madrid. We needed somebody like Iniesta playing in his role that he used to play and not on the wings.....
I still don't see the conflict between what you are saying and the line-up we are proposing.

Yes, we clearly need Iniesta and Xavi in the midfield. When we beat Madrid all those times, our possession game was off the hook, we beat them by absolutely dominating possession with untouchable tiki taka play by Xavi and Iniesta, and by having Iniesta hooking up with Messi who was more free due to the effectiveness of the tiki taka. There is no debate that against the high pressing teams like Madrid they are most effective.

However, instead of Pedro up front who MOSTLY provides good possession play and sometimes scoring opportunities, why not play our number one chance-creator as a false nine right in between our 2 best attacking players/goalscorers? Plus it's not like Cesc is that much worse than Pedro at tiki taka, he's really not at all. He's just not as good as Iniesta or Xavi. On top of that he can finish. But having our classic possession-midfield combined with the ultra-creative frontline of Cesc (our 2nd top assister) Villa and Messi (our two best SCORERS, who could FINISH the CHANCES Cesc creates) would be icing on the cake.

Let's be honest, Pedro is a great player, provides great stability in our tiki taka play and when he's on form he can finish chances PRODUCED by others. But he is nowhere near the chance-creating creativity of Cesc, who has been our most productive chance-creator this season besides Iniesta. If nothing else, we could start the game with Villa-Cesc-Messi to get some goals early and then Sub Cesc out for Pedro to control the game later with pure MVP Xaviniesta tiki taka.
 
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Mr Hulot

New member
Cesc cannot handle the fierce pressing of Madrid. He was the worst Barca player on the field the first half and then he beame our best, just because he had time with the ball...I hope Tito/Roura saw that and play Cesc as supersub in the remaining important games of the season..He will be perfect for that role!
 

jamrock

Senior Member
You are getting one thing wrong, we don't struggle to create chances without cesc, that was never the case and will never be, pedro is more important to maintain the balance of the team
 

Ketoth

New member
Cesc MOTM. Tremendous display. If he had stayed on Barcelona would've won it. What was Tito thinking taking him off?
 
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Youngie

Guest
You are getting one thing wrong, we don't struggle to create chances without cesc, that was never the case and will never be, pedro is more important to maintain the balance of the team

Just like Barca don't struggle to create chances without Xavi, Iniesta, Villa, Alves, Pedro & even Messi.
 

slvtn

Member
Facts is Cesc created more chances for Barca in that game than anyone.

This. I admit that I'm a little biased as Cesc is my favourite player along with Busi and Xavi, but he's also one of the underrated players and important for the team. If I got that right, he also scored the most goals after Messi last season, didn't he? He could/should have scored the second goal as well as he would have deserved it, but keep in mind that we also need players who score constantly. Villa could do so of course, but what will happen if Messi once is injured...
 

Vapor

New member
You are getting one thing wrong, we don't struggle to create chances without cesc, that was never the case and will never be, pedro is more important to maintain the balance of the team

Like I said I don't think we struggle with Pedro in the front line up, it's still a good line-up, but it fails to utilize one of our most creative attackers. Cesc adds an element that Pedro cannot bring, that is his playmaking/final pass ability. I'm not saying that we are weak with MVP up front, but when we have to sacrifice all that Cesc brings to the table for that it kind of sucks. At least rotating Pedro and Cesc in the frontline could be a viable option.
 

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