Champions League 23/24

[Birdy]

Someone else might disagree and say: that's not a definition of being plastic but being smart and living in the real world.

On the other hand, what Barca is doing with sticking to some romantic principles (which obviously aren't working too well) might be called as being young and naive.

One team is winning for 30 years.
The other team (or a fanbase) is trying to find 1000s of excuses why their loses are hollier and better than the wins from the other club.

No man!

1) There a thing called philosophy of playing in general, for instance attacking possession football.
2) There is another thing called tactical plan or outset, like playing 4-3-3, playing with wingers or with interiors.
The difference between them is that the former is a set of PRINCIPLES, while the latter is a way of APPLYING those principles on the pitch.

There is a bad part in romanticizing, and that comes down to conflating 2 with 1.
For instance, saying I want to always play 4-3-3 is such a case (Xavi or Laporta to Koeman anyone?), and is a terible misjudgment of 2 and 1. That is what has plagued Barca, not that we have 1.
Being flexible with 2 is a must given that 1 is always adopted to the state of the art in football. Pep has changed so much 2 in his career, never 1 for instance. Same with Klopp. Other examples as well

Having non-negotiable principles is what keep apart plastic from non-plastic fanbase. A fanbase with no non-negotiables who changes according to how the wind flows is the very definition of plastic.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Poor Dortmund but the fans i saw in Dortmund didnt look sad, i think they expected already a loss....

 

[fergus90]

First 50 minutes Dortmund were the better team but in the end Real ran out deserved winners. Dortmund ran out of ideas and belief.

Second half once Vinicius and Rodrygo were 1v1 with the Dortmund fullbacks more often, the game changed.

 

[Horatio]

@Temptation welcome back

 

[Temptation]

@Temptation welcome back

Yo. Why did you skip the final?

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

If Fermin would play for Dortmund he would have scored 2 goals

 

[Horatio]

Yo. Why did you skip the final?

Was hiking along waterfalls near Caracas. Didn’t take into account time difference lol.

 

[Temptation]

Was hiking along waterfalls near Caracas. Didn’t take into account time difference lol.

Sounds nice. Had fun?

 

[cracken]

I am not young.
I have been watching ball since 1994 WC. Everything happened afterwards I have watched, and after 97 or 98 I have very clear memories of everything,
and I remember Madrid sacking TWICE title winning manager Capello (1997 and 2007) because of the football he played. And Madrid fans waiving white hankerchiefs for him TWICE because of his football.

"Real president Ramon Calderon told Marca newspaper: 'We've laid the foundations, but we need to find a more enthusiastic way of playing'."
"I began to realise that the plan of Capello did not fit in with what the fans of Madrid expected."
"the good results aren't enough"
"We want to return to the spectacle that excites the Madridista members.""
Source 1, 2

(other historical examples as well, for instance Antic)

No accident that all that changed with Mourinho. Barca's best team in history was the best excuse Mou needed to assert to their fanbase the different philosophy he wanted.
Yes, they are ABSOLUTELY PLASTIC, because they were so easy to change mindset.
Madrid since Mou have the same philosophy as Juventus, which was always winning no matter how
The definition of being plastic

It's weird that you're trying to impose your ideals into another fanbase. Madrid doesn't have a specific style but they play attractive football most of the season and only close shop when they need to get a result against a stacked team, usually in a second leg away from home. Just contrast the first and second legs against Man City this year, one was the former while the second was a perfect example of the latter. No reasonable fanbase is expecting their team to live and die by a "philosophy".

Capello's football was significantly less appealing than Ancelotti's and the results weren't even comparable. Ancelotti won the long-awaited Decima in his first season whereas Capello eked out a league title on goal difference against a lackluster Barcelona and got embarrassed in the round of 16 vs a trash Bayern Munich. Ancleotti would have met the same fate if that's what he served in his first season.

 

[BJJ]

This was the first CL final I missed in 31 years! I just couldn't be bothered to wake up and watch them win yet again.
This competition is almost like a showcase for Real ti strut their stuff. It doesn't help that when they're in trouble the refs bail them out or their players manage to find an extra gear.
They have won triple the CL we have. And we're supposed to be their greatest rivals 😆.
In the next five years they will probably win another two or three, at the bare minimum one.

 

[Birdy]

It's weird that you're trying to impose your ideals into another fanbase. Madrid doesn't have a specific style but they play attractive football most of the season and only close shop when they need to get a result against a stacked team, usually in a second leg away from home. Just contrast the first and second legs against Man City this year, one was the former while the second was a perfect example of the latter. No reasonable fanbase is expecting their team to live and die by a "philosophy".

Capello's football was significantly less appealing than Ancelotti's and the results weren't even comparable. Ancelotti won the long-awaited Decima in his first season whereas Capello eked out a league title on goal difference against a lackluster Barcelona and got embarrassed in the round of 16 vs a trash Bayern Munich. Ancleotti would have met the same fate if that's what he served in his first season.

I am not imposing anything on anyone.
I gave you historical examples of how and WHEN mentality of Madrid fanbase changed.
I gave you REAL QUOTES that contradict what you write. Go READ
If you choose to ignore that, it is your problem

It is probably you, who are too young, and have watched Madrid only after 2009, and believe such stuff.

 

[cracken]

I am not imposing anything on anyone.
I gave you historical examples of how and WHEN mentality of Madrid fanbase changed.
I gave you REAL QUOTES that contradict what you write. Go READ
If you choose to ignore that, it is your problem

It is probably you, who are too young, and have watched Madrid only after 2009, and believe such stuff.

But you are. You pretty much unilaterally decided that Ancelotti's style is unappealing and that the fanbase somehow "changed" or were conditioned to put up with it when In reality, millions of fans enjoy the football their team plays and are completely fine with 2 or 3 PTB matches in the champions league. Most fans in the world would be. Nothing has changed really. You didn't give anything other than subjective opinions.

Ancelotti's football > Capello's football
Ancelotti's results > Capello's results

One plays football that the fans enjoy AND delivered the biggest trophy of them all, multiple times now. The other played terrible football AND failed in Europe. This comparison that you seem to think is a smoking gun argument only makes sense to you and you only.

 

[Don Juan Laporta Estruch]

I want to live in a world where a Barca player should have got sent off in the first half like Vinicius should have for his dive ( which is a clear second yellow ) and it is just glossed over as if nothing at all happened.

Not to mention the scandalous ending against Bayern, or the absolute robbery against Leipzig, where again Vini should have seen red for a throat grab.

Had Barca won the UCL with such scandals, they would be talking about it for the next 20 years. Hell, 1 game 15 years ago against Chelsea is bad enough to taint Barca for eternity. That also, after a 1st leg in the Camp Nou where Barca were equally robbed.

But instead the footballing world has planted it's face firmly between the butcheeks of Madrid tonight, not least on a Barca forum that knows full well the way Madrid wins.

What a time to be alive !

 

[Birdy]

But you are. You pretty much unilaterally decided that Ancelotti's style is unappealing and that the fanbase somehow "changed" or were conditioned to put up with it when In reality, millions of fans enjoy the football their team plays and are completely fine with 2 or 3 PTB matches in the champions league. Most fans in the world would be. Nothing has changed really. You didn't give anything other than subjective opinions.

Ancelotti's football > Capello's football
Ancelotti's results > Capello's results

One plays football that the fans enjoy AND delivered the biggest trophy of them all, multiple times now. The other played terrible football AND failed in Europe. This comparison that you seem to think is a smoking gun argument only makes sense to you and you only.

You miss the point
The point was not what Ancelotti's style is, let alone direct comparison with Capello
The point was Madrid's fanbase mentality
The same fanbase that was happy with Mou's style also in 2010-13

 

[companyofcules]

I think you might have something there but they were not dominant in winning, even if some may argue that the results were good enough, again I think their goal then was to emulate the dream team. Real had over the years some problems in recreating the Franco era. But they play okish most of the gsmes but what stands out for their base is the Wikipedia record. Now they don't need to stress themselves too much with style since the media and internet base already took the bite and unified the two generations to create the narative that they are the biggest club.If we had 14 cups too. And that success impacts even our base to go silverware merchandise. For me is not really that important if the team plays good and has the most earnings to buy the best players. I will gladly prefer Real having another 20 catenaccios style UCL if we play Endrick or Mbappe. But again we f up financially too and mainly for two reasons plastic fans waiting FCB to win and pushing Bartomeu to do stupid stuff, the idea that stars are found in media newspapers since plastics are atracted by barrn stats not potential.
Imagine if we said we don't care let's transfer for the future. I think FCB will be a force today.