Champions League

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Bayern's history v top teams (not just big names, but teams considered elite in a respective year) in their modern, golden era:

2010: W v United, L v Inter
2011: L v Inter
2012: W v RM, L v Chelsea
2013: W v Juve, W v Barca, W v Dortmund
2014: L v Real
2015: L v Barca
2016: W v Juve, L v AM
2017: L v RM
2018: L v RM
2019: L v Pool
2020: W v Chelsea, W v Barca (I'd argue we were a clown team but fine, we can put it in there), W v PSG
2021: L v PSG

8 (9) wins, 10 losses. Decent record but they more often than not pump weak opponents and are about 50-50 or less vs. strong opponents.

Here's Barca by comparison in our golden era (06-15):

2006: W v Chelsea, W v Milan, W v Arsenal
2007: L v Pool
2008: L v Man United
2009: W v Chelsea, W v Man United
2010: L v Inter
2011: W v RM, W v Man United
2012: W v Milan, L v Chelsea
2013: W v PSG, L v Bayern
2014: W v City, L v AM
2015: W v City, W v PSG, W v Bayern, W v Juve

14 W, 6 L. This is why we won 4 CL in 9 years in our golden era, while Bayern won 2 CL (1 of them in COVID format) in 12 years so far.

Now, let's do RM:

2010: --- (L to Lyon, not sure whether to count as Lyon is a small team)
2011: L v Barca
2012: L v Bayern
2013: L v Dortmund
2014: W v Bayern, W v AM
2015: W v AM, L v Juve
2016: W v Man City, W v AM
2017: W v Bayern, W v AM, W v Juve
2018: W v PSG, W v Juve, W v Bayern, W v Pool

12 W, 4 (5) L...also 4 CL in 9 years

So, the Barca - Real model of superstar driven CL campaigns is superior to the Bayern approach from the standpoint of winning big trophies. Bayern just seem scary because they annihilate weak opposition and run up the score v big names who are weak in a given year (vs. Chelsea, vs. Barca etc.)

Just need to modernize it and plan effectively for the after effects which tend to be more severe with the egos of these superstars.

Stunning!

 

[KingLeo10]

Because this is interesting, I'm going to throw in Pool in there:

2018 - W v City, L v RM
2019 - W v Bayern, W v Barca
2020 - L v AM
2021 - L v RM

3 W, 3 L so far. Less data compared to Bayern but similar trajectory (big CL KO games are 50-50 for teams like Pool or Bayern with their golden era teams...while being 66-33 or more for teams like Barca or RM at their best).

 

[Temptation]

What the heck you talking about? Hopefully he is out vs Villarreal.. Rooting for Spanish team obviously.

Why are La Liga fans this insecure about their league that they want other Spanish teams to do well in Europe? Never understood this obsession with your league getting a one up on another country's league. Firstly, these one off games proves nothing.

In England, Italy, Germany and other countries fans don't want teams from the same league to do well anywhere.

I guess this is because Villareal are a very likeable club who aren't that big but still doing very well.

But don't tell me you're supporting Athletico vs City or Real vs Chelsea. 😂

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Why are La Liga fans this insecure about their league that they want other Spanish teams to do well in Europe? Never understood this obsession with your league getting a one up on another country's league. Firstly, it proves nothing.

In England, Italy, Germany and other countries fans don't want teams from the same league to do well anywhere.

I guess this is because Villareal are a very likeable club who aren't that big but still doing very well.

But don't tell me you're supporting Athletico vs City or Real vs Chelsea. 😂

Atletico and Real are different but it depends who they play. I am fine with Atletico beating Liverpool and Bayern for example. Happy actually. Real losing is always positive but if they take out Bayern or Liverpool, happy. I doubt they win it all.

Villarreal is like Barcas bro. Of course rooting for them to win it all.

Chelsea is whatever. City sympathy goes to Pep.

 

[Temptation]

Atletico and Real are different but it depends who they play. I am fine with Atletico beating Liverpool and Bayern for example. Happy actually. Real losing is always positive but if they take out Bayern or Liverpool, happy. I doubt they win it all.

Villarreal is like Barcas bro. Of course rooting for them to win it all.

Villareal is fine but.

Why on Earth would a Barca fan want Bayern or Liverpool to go out rather than their arch rivals Real?

There's a rivalry between Barca Liverpool and Bayern?? What am I missing here??

 

[Luftstalag14]

Why are La Liga fans this insecure about their league that they want other Spanish teams to do well in Europe? Never understood this obsession with your league getting a one up on another country's league. Firstly, these one off games proves nothing.

In England, Italy, Germany and other countries fans don't want teams from the same league to do well anywhere.

I guess this is because Villareal are a very likeable club who aren't that big but still doing very well.

But don't tell me you're supporting Athletico vs City or Real vs Chelsea. ��

I don't know about England or Italy, but many Bundesliga fans want their fellow Bundesliga clubs do well on the European stage, nothing wrong with it.

There is always the desire and talk of wanting the league to which their favorite club belongs to do well, very natural. Co-efficient and stuff.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Villareal is fine but.

Why on Earth would a Barca fan want Bayern or Liverpool to go out rather than their arch rivals Real?

There's a rivalry between Barca Liverpool and Bayern?? What am I missing here??

Yes Madrid is our arch rival but many of us (not all) can't stand Bayern and Liverpool at varying degrees and for various reasons.

I myself vehemently detest Bayern, Liverpool perhaps a tad bit less despicable but not that much less, it would be great to get both of them crashing out.

Madrid already has what, 13, 14 CL trophies so getting one more doesn't hurt that much.

 

[Temptation]

Yes Madrid is our arch rival but many of us (not all) can't stand Bayern and Liverpool at varying degrees and for various reasons.

I myself vehemently detest Bayern, Liverpool perhaps a tad bit less despicable but not that much less, it would be great to get both of them crashing out.

Madrid already has what, 13, 14 CL trophies so getting one more doesn't hurt that much.

Whoa! Kinda surprised.

Is the Bayern and Liverpool hatred due to the 8-2 annihilation and the "Corner taken quickly..Origi" thing?? Or does it stem from somewhere else??

I dislike Barca as much as the next guy but when you guys play United I want you guys to humiliate them. Was rooting for Barca in the 2 CL finals against United.

 

[KingLeo10]

Whoa! Kinda surprised.

Is the Bayern and Liverpool hatred due to the 8-2 annihilation and the "Corner taken quickly..Origi" thing?? Or does it stem from somewhere else??

I dislike Barca as much as the next guy but when you guys play United I want you guys to humiliate them. Was rooting for Barca in the 2 CL finals against United.

This troll feigning "ignorance" and "help me understand" just so he can continue mentioning those ties

Luft (and others) have repeatedly explained in the post above. But you either completely ignored it to make the "point"/troll you wanted to anyway or are incapable of reading comprehension

 

[Temptation]

and yet your obsession and fascination with that supposed "troll" never stops. Sad life.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Whoa! Kinda surprised.

Is the Bayern and Liverpool hatred due to the 8-2 annihilation and the "Corner taken quickly..Origi" thing?? Or does it stem from somewhere else??

I dislike Barca as much as the next guy but when you guys play United I want you guys to humiliate them. Was rooting for Barca in the 2 CL finals against United.

Of course it is all personal, each person is different from another. I can't speak for anybody else except myself, for me the enormous dislike of Bayern (I wouldn't call it hatred) did not stem from the 8-2, from much, much earlier and not necessarily had to do with Barca at all. I was a big Schweinsteiger fanboy but never a Bayern fan.

Liverpool is a different story for me. Didn't care for them that much, didn't consider them a formidable side (despite Owen, Gerrard and Suarez etc.) and still don't follow them that much other than perhaps checking the league standing etc. (I generally don't follow the EPL, quite indifferent to that league and all the teams in it). The dislike of Liverpool did stem from our CL humiliation, how many Liverpool fans trolled us and especially how some Liverpool fans behaved in Barcelona (the "Mr. Miyagi incident"). Honestly, because you guys have what, 6 CL trophies and we have 5, I naturally don't want Liverpool to get another one. Very tribal yes, but very natural reaction.

 

[Temptation]

Of course it is all personal, each person is different from another. I can't speak for anybody else except myself, for me the enormous dislike of Bayern (I wouldn't call it hatred) did not stem from the 8-2, from much, much earlier and not necessarily had to do with Barca at all. I was a big Schweinsteiger fanboy but never a Bayern fan.

Liverpool is a different story for me. Didn't care for them that much, didn't consider them a formidable side (despite Owen, Gerrard and Suarez etc.) and still don't follow them that much other than perhaps checking the league standing etc. (I generally don't follow the EPL, quite indifferent to that league and all the teams in it). The dislike of Liverpool did stem from our CL humiliation, how many Liverpool fans trolled us and especially how some Liverpool fans behaved in Barcelona (the "Mr. Miyagi incident"). Honestly, because you guys have what, 6 CL trophies and we have 5, I naturally don't want Liverpool to get another one. Very tribal yes, but very natural reaction.

Fair enough. You're not alone on the Liverpool thing. Everyone hates us Liverpool fans(and the club).

Barcelona have 5 UCLs as compared to the 6 Liverpool and Bayern have. It's all very close and you wouldn't want either to extend the lead. Makes sense.

And yes, Football fans are indeed very tribal. Old school and romantic. That's the charm of it. Personally not that tribal myself.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Villareal is fine but.

Why on Earth would a Barca fan want Bayern or Liverpool to go out rather than their arch rivals Real?

There's a rivalry between Barca Liverpool and Bayern?? What am I missing here??

Just personal taste. Revenge is strong in me. I hope we destroy both those teams in the future.

Bayern especially. No mercy.

 

[Blackened]

Hope Villarreal and Atleti advance.

 

[Nucky]

Just personal taste. Revenge is strong in me. I hope we destroy both those teams in the future.

Bayern especially. No mercy.

Well we got our first revenge against Bayern in 2015 for that 7-0 on agg in 2013..