CL semis: Bayern - Barca 3-2 (3-5 agg.)

[DennyCrane]

Barca got Rakitic instead, the star player of spains biggest upcoming team and reigning EL champion. Madrid meanwhile went for Kroos, a player of a huge european competitor by offering him a higher paycheck. That isnt nice either.

So ? I don't know how often this has been repeated around these parts, yet people still don't seem able nor willing to grasp it: The issue with Bayern hasn't been buying players from the domestic league, but the deliberate and willful dismantling of competition, which Hoeneß at that time basically admitted himself of doing in an interview in connection to the Schlaudraff transfer.

The intent of these transfers was the actual issue and the unique feature, not the transfers themselves.

 

[Yannik]

1.) How do you know? Are you part of Barca's souting departement?
2.) "numerous English media have reported" - if the world would be like the english media would want it to be then every damn player is at United already, including Guardiola as their coach.
3.) fair enough, he's good but he hasnt yet lived up to that alleged price-tag.
4.) Why is this limited to only league rivals? Real and Bayerna re among the teams who will probably be in the semi-finals of the CL in at least 8 of the upcoming 10 seasons, if thats not a rival, then i dont know what it is. And Barca basically weakened a team that could have had the potential to play with the big boys in the future, even if they might not do that yet. Remember that Atletico was also once a "weaker" team, not seen as real danger for Barca and Madrid. Had other teams exploited their good players, BEFORE they became relevant and therefor preventing their rise to sucess then you would also say "they are not competition" today. Just a matter of perspective. But I really dont get why it is limited to "direct league rivals", theres not just the league.

So ? I don't know how often this has been repeated around these parts, yet people still don't seem able nor willing to grasp it: The issue with Bayern hasn't been buying players from the domestic league, but the deliberate and willful dismantling of competition, which Hoeneß at that time basically admitted himself of doing in an interview in connection to the Schlaudraff transfer.

The intent of these transfers was the actual issue and the unique feature, not the transfers themselves.

Schlaudraff came from Allemania Aachen. HIs transfer was indeed unnecessary and he wasnt really used, but you cant apply this to the Bayern-Dortmund saga since both, Götze and Lewy area ctually PLAYING as starters, therefor are an addition to the squad and actually needed. The intent here is definitely tos trengthen the squad. Bayern needed a striker because Mandzukic and Gomez were good but not Barca-Real-Bayern quality, so they went for a striker. And all of a sudden Lewy a worldclass striker, appears on the scene. He has CL experience, league top scorer, great with the ball, speaks german and most importanly he is for FREE. An opportunity noone would miss out.

 

[DennyCrane]

Schlaudraff came from Allemania Aachen. HIs transfer was indeed unnecessary and he wasnt really used, but you cant apply this to the Bayern-Dortmund saga since both, Götze and Lewy area ctually PLAYING as starters, therefor are an addition to the squad and actually needed.

I don't. Read my post again; the Schlaudraff transfer was the interview opportunity in Welt am Sonntag in 2007 - in which Hoeneß admitted of deliberately weakening competitors, including the past, and not Aachen. Btw., the Schlaudraff transfer was a maneuver to piss off Bremen more than anything else - who was coincidentally - a competitor at that time.

 

[Hummelsbauer]

Anyone who has watched a decent amount of Bayern knows that Neuer wasn't just a passenger. He faces an extremely high RATE of great chances due to the defensive style and saved Bayern a good number of times when the score was still close with wonderful saves despite not having much to do before. That's one of the marks of a great goal keepers. His top 10 saves of the season are top notch and I'm not sure there are goal keepers who have better.

 

[Yannik]

I don't. Read my post again; the Schlaudraff transfer was the interview opportunity in Welt am Sonntag in 2007 - in which Hoeneß admitted of deliberately weakening competitors, including the past, and not Aachen. Btw., the Schlaudraff transfer was a maneuver to piss off Bremen more than anything else - who was coincidentally - a competitor at that time.

yeah Hoeness can be a dick, we know that already.

 

[nnao]

I don't. Read my post again; the Schlaudraff transfer was the interview opportunity in Welt am Sonntag in 2007 - in which Hoeneß admitted of deliberately weakening competitors, including the past, and not Aachen. Btw., the Schlaudraff transfer was a maneuver to piss off Bremen more than anything else - who was coincidentally - a competitor at that time.

Competitors do stuff to piss each other off all the time. Don't think that Wolfsburg are trying to sign Kruse to make Gladbach like them more.

 

[DennyCrane]

yeah Hoeness can be a dick, we know that already.

It's Bayern policy, not a Hoeneß solo. And again, what does that have to do with the Rakitic transfer ?

 

[Yannik]

It's Bayern policy, not a Hoeneß solo. And again, what does that have to do with the Rakitic transfer ?

Read the whole conversation. The comment were i wrote aboout the Raktic transfer had a quote above it. The guy was claiming tin an earlier comment that Barca or Madrid would never buy from a competing team because they are desperately trying to keep competition intact as some sort of "Holy rule".. And I already explained to you why the Dortmund situation isnt comparable to this so-called "payern policy" that you explained on the example Schlaudraff.

 

[DennyCrane]

Read the whole conversation. The comment were i wrote aboout the Raktic transfer had a quote above it. The guy was claiming tin an earlier comment that Barca or Madrid would never buy from a competing team because they are desperately trying to keep competition intact as some sort of "Holy rule".. And I already explained to you why the Dortmund situation isnt comparable to this so-called "payern policy" that you explained on the example Schlaudraff.

Schlaudraff was not the example; it used this as a reference to an interview I referred to. Barca are no saints, but none of their representatives are on record of outlining how weakening competition is part of their transfer policy. That's all.

 

[Yannik]

Schlaudraff was not the example; it used this as a reference to an interview I referred to. Barca are no saints, but none of their representatives are on record of outlining how weakening competition is part of their transfer policy. That's all.

But the interview is saying "we signed Schlaudraff to piss off Werder" not "We sign players every now and then to piss off opponents." The interview is only talking about this specific case, not about any sort of ongoing policy. The fact that there has been a player once that has been signed under these circumstances isnt an automatic indication that every signing from now until forever is part of any sort of "competition-weakening"-pattern or policy.

 

[DennyCrane]

But the interview is saying "we signed Schlaudraff to piss off Werder" not "We sign players every now and then to piss off opponents." The interview is only talking about this specific case, not about any sort of policy. The fact that there has been a player once that has been signed under these circumstances isnt an automatic indication that every signing from now until forever is part of any sort of "competition-weakening"-pattern or policy.

You're right, my bad. I meant the interview from 2013 or something in Sportbild, when he basically admitted to weakening competition in the past. The one referred to here http://sportbild.bild.de/bundesliga...onkurrenz-durch-transfers-30115722.sport.html

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

Since you all mention the Schlaudraff transfer you seem to forget that this was a done deal during the winter break. At that time, people still though everything was gonna be okay with Grinsiklinsi. When people then realized that Klinsmann was an utter moron and absolut disgrace for any football manager, he not only was fired but Hoeneß and his gang realized they needed to rebuild the squad. That's when the big transfers Ribery, Toni etc. happened. But Altintop (IIRC) and Schlaudraff, who together cost something like 2.5M €, were no longer considered rotation players but essentially backup or rather no longer needed. Twas merely a matter of timing.

 

[Yannik]

You're right, my bad. I meant the interview from 2013 or something in Sportbild, when he basically admitted to weakening competition in the past. The one referred to here http://sportbild.bild.de/bundesliga...onkurrenz-durch-transfers-30115722.sport.html

ok well but this is just a slideshow of players who were signed from domestic clubs in a timespan of 25 years. Most involved clubs that are mentioned here were somewhere between 10th-18th place in the table. Every club does these. Hoeness did only say that Schlaudraff was part of that strategy. Effenberg, Van Buyten, Gustavo, Rau and all the other players here etc they are not meant by that.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Well, any newspaper headline will be similar. But even then, goal is the worst.

Just checked L'equipe's website and their headline is different:
"Face à Messi, il faut montrer qui est le patron " loosely translates to "When facing Messi, it's necessary to show who's boss".

The fundamental difference between that and "I'll show Messi who's boss" should be obvious here.

Likewise saying, "It's necessary to outscore and play better than Barca to win" != "We will outscore Barca and play better than them."
You don't exactly need a genius to tell you that playing with confidence and authority is important in a big game like this.

Still sounds provocative to me. Either way saying stuff like showing him who the boss is etc. is really not necessary and I expected Neuer to be above that. But given how he mocked at Ronaldo etc. before, I guess I am not really surprised.

 

[Luftstalag14]

How? Because he should believe that it's necessary to be submissive and meek when you're facing off in the biggest match of the season? Obviously, both teams will be looking to show authority and be dominant (not necessarily with possession) during the 180-210 mins. That's pretty much a no-brainer.

It is clearly different if you say "we will give our 100% to play our biggest game of the season to beat Barca" than stuff like "show Messi who the boss is".