Claudio Bravo

[serghei]

Nice reply, you got me there.

I somewhat agree with you. Undermining Bravo's performances and reducing them to a consequence of playing for Barcelona is too much. But saying it doesn't have anything to do with it is just the same. Barcelona were pretty dominant last year, winning Copa and CL without Bravo.

Yep, I gree. I was refering to Bravo's role in La Liga. Which was consistent. Again, Valencia outplayed us in both games and we won mostly because Bravo was MotM in both games. Madrid at home is another example and all of these are key games.

 

[DonAK]

At club level, sure, Valdes is way superior. At NT level Bravo is superior. It's like that. I don't see how saying Valdes has not looked good with any team apart from Barcelona is not true. Warming the bench at Spain NT and United is looking good to you?

Casillas in his prime was the best GK in the World with Buffon. So yes, being the 2nd GK at Spain wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be when you got competition like that. At Man Utd the circumstances are entirely different. Long-term injury and coming back from that and then a falling out with the manager.

 

[serghei]

Casillas in his prime was the best GK in the World with Buffon. So yes, being the 2nd GK at Spain wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be when you got competition like that. At Man Utd the circumstances are entirely different. Long-term injuries then a falling out with the manager.

These are explanations what you say here, excuses for why Valdes looked bad. And are legit excuses of course. But they come to explain why something happened, not to deny the actual occurence of the fact. If I add the fact and you add the explanation/reasoning, we get a full phrase. Valdes looked bad at United because he had a falling out with the manager. Or Valdes looked bad at Spain NT because he was part of the same generation with Iker.

 

[DonAK]

These are explanations what you say here, excuses for why Valdes looked bad. And are legit excuses of course. But they come to explain why something happened, not to deny the actual occurence of the fact. If I add the fact and you add the explanation/reasoning, we get a full phrase. Valdes looked bad at United because he had a falling out with the manager. Or Valdes looked bad at Spain NT because he was part of the same generation with Iker.

Except Valdes didn't look bad at Spain. If Bravo in 2-3 seasons is benched either in Barca or Chile then it wouldn't be because he's bad, but because there's simply a better player in his position, unless he declines rapidly, but let's assume that doesn't happen.

Unless he actually is bad, which Valdes wasn't, not statistically nor in real action.

That doesn't even make any sense. I guess someone like Alexis was bad then because he was sold for Suarez or that Pedro was bad because Neymar started over him.

 

[zanela]

Bravo won the Copa America and was an important part of that Chile team. He was bettter than Ospina. Ospina and his team didn't even make the semis.

Until the Qtrs, Ospina had conceded once, Bravo thrice. Colombia went out in a shoot-out, with Ospina putting in a colossal performance to keep them in the game up until then. In the same round, CHL went through after a controversial sending off of Cavani, aftermath of which, the classy chilean captain was caught on camera mocking the incident. Too bad for Ospina, the tournament wasn't held in COL, eh?. Winning a collective effort doesn't equal to being better individually.

Ratio of 0.5 goals/game for SPA. How many games though? His presence at the World Cup and European Championship is non-existent. His international career is much worse than Bravo's, and I don't see why anyone would try to dispute that, because you simply can't.

Your initial assertion and I quote "Valdes didn't look great in any team outside Barcelona btw" as opposed to "having a less significant Intl career than Bravo". Hence why the mention of his ratio to refute the initial claim. Won't dispute the latter. But on an individual level, you can't question VV's ability, as you've no grounds to do so.

 

[serghei]

Your initial assertion and I quote "Valdes didn't look great in any team outside Barcelona btw" as opposed to "having a less significant Intl career than Bravo". Hence why the mention of his ratio to refute the initial claim. Won't dispute the latter. But on an individual level, you can't question VV's ability, as you've no grounds to do so.

I have already said that being an eternal sub, or even worse, watching the game from the stands on a regular basis, is looking bad to me. Feel free to disagree. There is nothing great about being a benchwarmer, no matter who the starting player is (Casillas wasn't spared of problems in the last few years as well, keep that in mind, he wasn't exactly prime Casillas). That was the initial claim and I've explained it. In his time at Spain and United Valdes' role was almost non-existent. It's like he never even played for those teams.

Bravo played the final and won the final with Chile. That's what people will remember and that's what it counts in the end. Bravo sealed the goal in the final with Arg. and won the title. Can Ospina rival with that? No. You seem to forget that the semifinal and especially the final are the creme de la creme of any Cup competition.

 

[zanela]

I didn't say Bravo had a better career. I said he is a top 5 keeper in the world at the moment. And zanela went on to imply this is only about him playing at Barcelona, when it's not. Bravo's great performances last season happened most times he played, whether it was for Barcelona or for Chile.

Nah, I wasn't implying that. You need to re-read my post again. I also gave one other highly rated keeper's example. I was only putting it out there for posters to ruminate over other factors' role and its influence.
No one's denying Bravo's Motm games last season. But, there are keepers from lesser sides with Motm performances, but they'd rarely be in the race for the zamora.
My point of contention was if Bravo deserve world accolades, and homage after one season (where he didn't even feature in the Europe's most elite and top draw comp), were we, Barca fans. a li'l stingy in our appreciation of VV?

 

[serghei]

My point of contention was if Bravo deserve world accolades, and homage after one season (where he didn't even feature in the Europe's most elite and top draw comp), were we, Barca fans. a li'l stingy in our appreciation of VV?

Valdes was respected by both the club and it's fans. At least that's how I remember it. He decided to leave and we moved on with Bravo. I'd say on the contrary, Bravo shows that maybe Valdes' importance was over-estimated by many. We're not missing him one bit. And I don't think Bravo is a worse keeper than Valdes myself.

 

[zanela]

Valdes was respected by both the club and it's fans. At least that's how I remember it. He decided to leave and we moved on with Bravo. I'd say on the contrary, Bravo shows that maybe Valdes' importance was over-estimated by many. We're not missing him one bit. And I don't think Bravo is a worse keeper than Valdes myself.

Nah, even in his glory days, there were many critics (including myself ), he was always questioned, and his past errors always brought up. I don't think he was ever given his proper dues. Bravo joined at his peak. His past season (at 31) is comparable to VV's 2013-14 (at 31) which was way superior.
The reason it may look like VV's not missed is we've already seen both his highs and lows, most preferring to remember only the latter. Bravo's had a perfect start by virtue of already being a seasoned keeper. He's had a great season, no doubt. But a keeper's greatness is measured by longevity, consistency, and strength of character. And Bravo has still more miles to go, on the Barca road. How would he react to drop in form, an injury, losing his place, or a managerial change that may or may not work in his favour. Only time will tell. For now it's too early to confer legend status, and world homage.

Regardless, he may win the FIFA GK of the year which should satiate some of his ardent supporters for a while.

 

[Chainsaw]

Neuer and Curtosis, yes. But I don't rate de Gea ahead of Bravo.

I do not intend to question Bravo qualities but due to our possession based play style Barca GKs usually do not receive serious threats coming at them, specially against weaker sides. That play a part in many Zamora awards going to Barca GKs in the past seasons.

While on the other hand, each time I watched Manchester United De Gea had to save their asses on several occasions by some world class saves, even against weaker sides.

I do not consider Bravo better than any of Neuer, Courtois, De Gea and Buffon but he's among the top 10 GKs in the world right now. I'm not sure he could do as much saves as De Gea did for Manchester United if he was playing for them.

 

[Topolino]

Bravo did make quite a few world class saves During last season. I do think that Bravo would've done a similar job at Utd. But it's really hard to compare goalkeepers. De Gea was uniteds main man tho I must admit.

 

[God Serena]

No way does Bravo do as well as De Gea at United. I remember Bravo in his Sociedad days and it was a total horror show. He's improved tenfold since signing for Barca, but I'd be more inclined to suggest it's because of the team he's on, which ironically is the reason Sergei seems to be attributing to Valdes's success in our goal to put down his accomplishments.

 

[Kerrybai]

The Bravo vs Ter Stegen fan boy dance off has gotten out of hand.

 

[serghei]

which ironically is the reason Sergei seems to be attributing to Valdes's success in our goal to put down his accomplishments.

You got that all wrong. I've said Valdes' career at Barcelona is much better than Bravo's actually, but that Bravo's performances with Chile are better than whatever Valdes did outside Barcelona. Which is true, and beyond denial.

Basically, saying Bravo looks great mostly because of Barca is not true, considering he's just won Copa America with Chile.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

Valdès made the highs higher and the lows more frequent

Sure, his last season was great and all, but lasted only 3 months and missed out on 90% of crucial games. These three months were best in the world material and also the best of his career, I think. It's a stretch to think he could've sustained this crazy form.

Bravo is definitely one of the current best goalkeepers.