Claudio Bravo

[Flavia]

@God Serena i don't know if that might answer your question .. foot ball is not 1v1 sport .. only issue here is this .. the squad who plays the champions league is the exact one playing la liga minus the goalkeeping position .. so in this case we do have 1 " variable " which is the goalkeeper .. version 1 of the squad won its' competition version 2 no . that's how i see things you don't have to agree with it

Seriously? That's one of the worst reasoning I've ever read here, and I've read a lot. And all the more reason to switch roles, then. Give Bravo CL and cup, so we can win the cl again

Truth is, Bravo is still a better keeper.
Will be a hard call for Lucho.

This is not an absolute truth by any means. Bravo's been pretty inconsistent since January, and MAtS' been better. Bravo also got injured twice last season, he missed a lot of games for a gk. Which could be quite worrying, if the only sub was Masip, for instance.

 

[KingMessi]

You know, at this point just #AbandonThread

 

[Total-Football]

my reasoning was fine and i see nothing wrong with it .. i didn't want to dwell on technical stuff because everyone has an opinion .. the major problem i see with barca's defense is the vulnerabilty to aerial attacks .. you can dwell all you want on who plays with feet better , who has faster reaction , who is more consistent and the difference is very slim in those departments .. the major difference is : Bravo commands respect in the aerial balls , Stegen absolutely not .. that alone makes me side with Bravo . because like it or not , our height average is not big due to the type of players we have .. if you think aerial stuff is secondary just rewatch Madrid's most important goals , they all come from corners .. no one is going to beat Ronaldo , bale , ramos , pepe in the air except for an audacious keeper .

Seriously? That's one of the worst reasoning I've ever read here, and I've read a lot. And all the more reason to switch roles, then. Give Bravo CL and cup, so we can win the cl again

This is not an absolute truth by any means. Bravo's been pretty inconsistent since January, and MAtS' been better. Bravo also got injured twice last season, he missed a lot of games for a gk. Which could be quite worrying, if the only sub was Masip, for instance.

this is just basic logic .. 2 different results , one varibale .. it makes all the sense of the world . i rest my case too tho

this is just basic logic .. 2 different results , one varibale .. it makes all the sense of the world . i rest my case too tho

to give Bravo the CL means playing once in a while .. he'll become shaky .. Bravo for both important compétitions and stegen for copa .. if results don't work in our favor , here i agree , swap them next season

 

[KingMessi]

You've over simplified the scenario. And therein lies the flaw with your reasoning. It's not just 1 variable. There's also weather, form of the entire squad, form of the opposing squad, the decisions made by the players on the pitch, illnesses/injuries, pitch conditions, etc.

Granted the effect of some of these is minor to negligible but my point stands, it's not simply 1 variable.

A 5th grader could tell you that.

 

[Flavia]

my reasoning was fine and i see nothing wrong with it .. i didn't want to dwell on technical stuff because everyone has an opinion .. the major problem i see with barca's defense is the vulnerabilty to aerial attacks .. you can dwell all you want on who plays with feet better , who has faster reaction , who is more consistent and the difference is very slim in those departments .. the major difference is : Bravo commands respect in the aerial balls , Stegen absolutely not .. that alone makes me side with Bravo . because like it or not , our height average is not big due to the type of players we have .. if you think aerial stuff is secondary just rewatch Madrid's most important goals , they all come from corners .. no one is going to beat Ronaldo , bale , ramos , pepe in the air except for an audacious keeper .

Aerial balls and crosses are one of Bravo's weaknesses. He's not that secure when collecting crosses.

this is just basic logic .. 2 different results , one varibale .. it makes all the sense of the world . i rest my case too tho

There's absoutely no logic here. With Messi on the team Barça have won and lost CL matches. With Iniesta, or Xavi, Valdes, Puyol, Pique or any other important player. This is just pure nonsense, sorry.

to give Bravo the CL means playing once in a while .. he'll become shaky .. Bravo for both important compétitions and stegen for copa .. if results don't work in our favor , here i agree , swap them next season

Oh, really? So not playing regularly affects a player's performance, like it does with MAtS. Interesting. We still won the CL and the cdr in his 1st season anyway, and repeated the cdr this season with him. Funny, right?

If only Lucho knew that repeating a treble was this easy... He just had to play Bravo. But he was probably just confused by winning CL the season before with MAtS, I bet.

 

[Icarium]

This is not an absolute truth by any means. Bravo's been pretty inconsistent since January, and MAtS' been better. Bravo also got injured twice last season, he missed a lot of games for a gk. Which could be quite worrying, if the only sub was Masip, for instance.

Bravo is better, if you compare over the last 2 years it is evidently clear. Lets just compare the 2016 anyway if that is what you want. He was not that inconsistent as you guys make it to be, he was "bad" only when the entire team was shitting itself and playing bad overall. Even Mats was not brilliant during that time, but for him it is just 2 matches so it might not have mad a big impact on the fans opinion. At any case when we were regaining form bravo did too up until the injury that is. But I am still pushing for Bravo because of Copa, if Mats and Bravo are on same level I would immediately bench Bravo it is a nobrainer. But they are not Bravo has more composure and command in the air. Before Donak swoops mentions his age old argument about giving consistent game time to gain them and shit like I am just replying to the argument that Bravo is not better than Mats.

At the end yes if Mats is demanding a resolution I would understand if Lucho went ahead and gave the starting role to him. He is talented and could be a great GK in the future for us. I can only hope the transition is easier and that it won't hurt us this season. We signed lot of players this season, we need to get every detail correct to win the treble again.

 

[KingMessi]

I think he's trolling us. He has to be. Nobody should realistically find this argument logical.

 

[Flavia]

Bravo is better, if you compare over the last 2 years it is evidently clear. Lets just compare the 2016 anyway if that is what you want. He was not that inconsistent as you guys make it to be, he was "bad" only when the entire team was shitting itself and playing bad overall. Even Mats was not brilliant during that time, but for him it is just 2 matches so it might not have mad a big impact on the fans opinion. At any case when we were regaining form bravo did too up until the injury that is. But I am still pushing for Bravo because of Copa, if Mats and Bravo are on same level I would immediately bench Bravo it is a nobrainer. But they are not Bravo has more composure and command in the air. Before Donak swoops mentions his age old argument about giving consistent game time to gain them and shit like I am just replying to the argument that Bravo is not better than Mats.

At the end yes if Mats is demanding a resolution I would understand if Lucho went ahead and gave the starting role to him. He is talented and could be a great GK in the future for us. I can only hope the transition is easier and that it won't hurt us this season. We signed lot of players this season, we need to get every detail correct to win the treble again.

I don't think Bravo is better. He's just more experienced, for obvious reasons. This is my personal opinion, but I don't want him to leave. Thing is, I'm thinking about the club, long term. On his debut season, playing occasionally, Barça won 2 titles with MAtS. One being the CL, where we played the most difficult draws ever. And we repeated the cdr with him. I don't know how switching roles, and giving MAtS the time he needs to become an even better gk will be a bad thing. It will be good for the club.

Bravo was very shaken during the copa 1st rounds. He made some terrible mistakes, that if it was MAtS who made them, a lot here would be crucifying him and saying he's "crap, sell, look at those stupid mistakes". And that came from a seasoned gk like Bravo. Losing the possible 9+ seasons MAtS can offer, for 2 of Bravo is way risky. Then we'd have to go in the market again, and a good fit could appear or not, and we could end up with a bad situation to deal with. Mats is not 21 or 22, he's 24. No one can keep asking him to wait around. He needs playing time now, and he's more than capable of doing it.

And again, Bravo's injury problems is somthing else that made me very concerned. he lost around 7 games last season. Remember when we had to play Pinto and lost cl and la liga? I really don't want to see that again.

And if the expectation is always the treble now... That's not something that will happen so frequently. It's really difficult to win one.

 

[Total-Football]

troling to think Bravo is a better option for the coming season ? as for Flavia what you said is bizzare .. if Bravo is weak in the air than words can't describe how incompetent stegen is in this area . i agree with what [MENTION=15846]Icarium[/MENTION] has said.. maybe he used soft words but that's how i see it

 

[Flavia]

troling to think Bravo is a better option for the coming season ? as for Flavia what you said is bizzare .. if Bravo is weak in the air than words can't describe how incompetent stegen is in this area . i agree with what @Icarium has said.. maybe he used soft words but that's how i see it

Trolling to say we lost CL because MAtS was played, that this was the variable that changed. Explain how the treble was won in 2015, then. And Bravo is not commanding in the air. That and the near post are his weakness.

 

[Icarium]

Bravo was not great just after te injury for obvious reasons. But later in the Copa he was spectacular. Injury could have happened to anyone. Exactly the reason why we can't sell either of them.

 

[Flavia]

Bravo was not great just after te injury for obvious reasons. But later in the Copa he was spectacular. Injury could have happened to anyone. Exactly the reason why we can't sell either of them.

That's exactly why switching roles is the way to go. I'm sure Bravo wants to play CL. And MAtS won't accept only cdr, this much is obvious. Trusting a gk to develop usually pays off. See ddg, oblak, curtosis.

 

[Total-Football]

Trolling to say we lost CL because MAtS was played, that this was the variable that changed. Explain how the treble was won in 2015, then. And Bravo is not commanding in the air. That and the near post are his weakness.

we sound like broken records .. we also won la liga in 2015 alright .. i dont say stegen is the reason we were knocked out ( althought his performances were not perfect at all ) .. i'm saying bravo was not a part of the loosing team he won very competition he was a part of .. to take him out like that is not something i would want , and frankly , i doubt lucho would play stegen in la liga. you say ter is better you gave your arguments i have read them .

happy night everybody it's 5 am here

 

[KingMessi]

we sound like broken records .. we also won la liga in 2015 alright .. i dont say stegen is the reason we were knocked out ( althought his performances were not perfect at all ) .. i'm saying bravo was not a part of the loosing team he won very competition he was a part of .. to take him out like that is not something i would want , and frankly , i doubt lucho would play stegen in la liga. you say ter is better you gave your arguments i have read them .

happy night everybody it's 5 am here

Technically, Bravo played the Supercup second leg IIRC. We lost that.

 

[God Serena]

derp derp

I want to go to bed but this argument is actually keeping me from sleeping. It seems you're genuinely not trolling, either. Roughly fifteen different sentences have been typed into this space right here but I realized one by one that every single one of them would probably have the mods in my messages.

The Champions League is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COMPETITION to La Liga. One drop in form is enough to make you wipe out and lose. If Bravo conceded 3 goals without a single save in the CL like he did in La Liga we'd have been eliminated. La Liga is a hundred times more forgiving to lackluster performances, which is why we were able to win La Liga even in spite of our keeper shitting the bed in January and never washing his sheets. During the period where we lost to Atleti in the CL the entire team lost focus and lacked the drive to pull out a win. During that same period we dropped numerous points in La Liga as well, but the difference is La Liga isn't a knockout tournament. Like honestly this argument is so absurd that it's hard to comprehend how you wouldn't be trolling.

The "Same exact players" argument was used towards Mats when he had to step in the *first* time Bravo got injured and the defense was in a shambles, with people arguing that those same players won the league with Bravo in goal, and yet the very moment Bravo returned from injury he proceeded to concede goals at the exact same rate. This may also hurt for you to acknowledge, but during Bravo's *second* injury at the end of the season, Mats stepped in and did a much better job than he had done in all of 2016. A job that needed to be done, as without those final few wins we would not have won the league. With Bravo missing so much action due to injury, the notion that he single handedly won La Liga for us between the sticks just isn't true. In fact, I would argue that we'd have possibly been in a better position if Mats had been starting for most of 2016.

The fact that you need to go back to 2015 or earlier to say that Bravo is the better keeper is proof that he's not. Somehow the "33 is young for a keeper, he can perform like this until he's 37+" argument has vanished into thin air and has been replaced with "Mats just needs to be patient!". No. You don't take what is arguably your best keeper who can be here for another decade and tell him to be "patient", especially after performing at a world class level for 2 years while doing exactly that, for the sake of keeping a 33 year old keeper who has failed to perform for the entire second half of a season.

I could go on but you probably don't see my point, and chances are you never will. I honestly think people like you don't give a crap about the club, you just care about Bravo. That's the only logical way to explain someone using ass-backward logic like "Bravo won La Liga and Mats didn't win the CL, so now Bravo should play CL and La Liga" to try and prefer a keeper who will perform for 2 years maximum over a keeper who can perform for the next decade.