Clément Lenglet (loaned to Atletico)

[Messi983]

"Problem" as in "i would prefer to get a right footed class CB first". But Pique can't be challenged at this club anyway so it probably doesn't matter.

You have to take what's available on the market. If we wouldn't buy Lenglet now it's very possible he would go to a bigger club (and become unavailable for forseeable future) or renew his contract with Sevilla with a higher clause. Finding a good left footed CB is also much harder than right footer.


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"there will be no documentary"

 

[DonAndres]

de ligt hasn't done anything too special either... other than being 19 years old

IIRC De Ligt was very great in the Europa League final against United 2 seasons ago when he was like 17 or 18. Not that I have any problem with Lenglet but there is very good reason to want De Ligt too. His potential is very high.

 

[BBZ8800]

I don't get one thing.

Samper is 6 Months older than Lenglet.
Yet, a lot of people think that with Lenglet: his development is over. What we see now, it is what we will get till the rest of his career.
While with Samper, I guess that a lot of people here still think that we should give him a chance and that he could improve a lot.
So, how come that one 23 years old guy (Samper) can still improve and the other one (Lenglet) is on a verge of a retirement and almost past his peak?

Further, Arthur is 1 year younger than Lenglet.
With him, we can already read that he will need a season or two to adapt and then he will slowly show what he can do.
He has "tons of potential" and we will need to wait a few years to see his real "potential".
Ok, he is coming from Brazil, but still: how come that a 22 years old has tons of potential and years of development infront of him and a 23 years old guy (Lenglet) is a finished product?

I don't get it, why we don't see posts in this thread:
But he is young...
He can improve a lot...
He is a longterm solution, we can have him for 10 years...
He will need 2-3 years to adapt, and get familiar with our system etc.
He will be the next Puyol.

Are we turning into Arsene Wenger?
A player can't get any love anymore unless if he is 13 (lol), 18, 19, 20 or 21 years old?

I don't have any particular (good or bad) opinion about Lenglet, but I find it funny how much love are De Jong, De Light and Arthur getting, while Lenglet is "done with his developing" and nothing special.

 

[DonAndres]

Who ever said Lenglet was done developing? Commenting on the potential of one player doesn't detract from the other. De Ligt may have higher potential as he's a more renowned prospect and shows some flashes of truly special ability but Lenglet could become a good player in his own right and the case isn't clear for either player yet.

Samper is not worth a chance anymore, it's far too late for him. He should've gotten Gomes' spot a season or two ago but now it doesn't matter, as sad as it is given his commitment to Barca. I thought you would actually like De Jong He is 1.8m tall after all.

 

[Icarium]

Samper is a lost cause now. Will see how Arthur plays here. Might need two seasons because it is a different league and system. Samper has been playing with Barca system for some time. He is probably not good enough to make it anymore. Lenglet could be a decent signing but we still need to start Pique Umtiti at back. Pique form is very bad hope Mina or Lenglet can steal his place.

 

[Donatello]

Damn...Another french player.

Seems like segura and co are on their way to start "Project France"

 

[Catta]

Damn...Another french player.

Seems like segura and co are on their way to start "Project France"

Well it's miles better than "Project Brazil"

 

[BBZ8800]

Who ever said Lenglet was done developing? Commenting on the potential of one player doesn't detract from the other. De Ligt may have higher potential as he's a more renowned prospect and shows some flashes of truly special ability but Lenglet could become a good player in his own right and the case isn't clear for either player yet.

There were a few comments like: he is "already" 23... (Again, Samper is 23 and a half, Arthur is 22, Dembele is 21. It is not as if those guys are 15 years younger than a veteran Lenglet).
Also, in Dembele's thread, if he plays bad or average, we always hear: but he is young, he has so much potential, he will improve.
About Arthur, the same: he needs time, in a few seasons he could turn into a new Xavi.

While on this topic, I haven't seen any exaggerated overhyped comments like:
Lenglet could be the new Bartresi, sorry, Maldini, Baresi or Puyol in 5-10 years, once when he gets more experience and playing time in our system.

I am sad because Lenglet isn't getting any crazy, unrealistic hype
And in the same time, it is a nice phenomenom to analyze, how some players will get some unrealistice levels of hype, love and alibies for all their flaws, while others are welcomed with a lukewarm reception from the day 1 for some reason.
I have a feeling that even Mina received more hype when he was coming.

I thought you would actually like De Jong He is 1.8m tall after all.

Yeah, but he is like 13 years old currently, right?

Jokes aside, even if he will develop and mature perfectly, he won't be ready for some serious CL's football at least 3-4 more years, in THE BEST CASE SCENARIO.
He played 30-40 senior matches in his whole career, right?
Zero La Liga experience.
Zero Barca's experience.
Zero experience in a big club under pressure.
Zero NT experience.
Zero CL's experience.
Zero experience against Cr7, Atletico's thugs and cheaters etc.

So, in short, no matter whom we'll buy, Rakitic will probably again be the most played Barca's midfield for 2-3 more years.
Thiago has his flaws and will be injured for 9 Months per season.
De Jong will play a serious football from 2022-2023-2024.
Arthur, in the best case, might start to play some serious football in 2 years.
Alena is 4-5 years away from some serious football also.

Short term, these kids are offering absolutely nothing, imo.

In that sense, now we are buying Lenglet, who is "already" 23.
Players aged 23-26 are the best bet longeterm.
They are ready to play right away and they can still improve, at least these younger guys.

 

[Jombi]

I don't get one thing.

Samper is 6 Months older than Lenglet.
Yet, a lot of people think that with Lenglet: his development is over. What we see now, it is what we will get till the rest of his career.
While with Samper, I guess that a lot of people here still think that we should give him a chance and that he could improve a lot.
So, how come that one 23 years old guy (Samper) can still improve and the other one (Lenglet) is on a verge of a retirement and almost past his peak?

Further, Arthur is 1 year younger than Lenglet.
With him, we can already read that he will need a season or two to adapt and then he will slowly show what he can do.
He has "tons of potential" and we will need to wait a few years to see his real "potential".
Ok, he is coming from Brazil, but still: how come that a 22 years old has tons of potential and years of development infront of him and a 23 years old guy (Lenglet) is a finished product?

I don't get it, why we don't see posts in this thread:
But he is young...
He can improve a lot...
He is a longterm solution, we can have him for 10 years...
He will need 2-3 years to adapt, and get familiar with our system etc.
He will be the next Puyol.

Are we turning into Arsene Wenger?
A player can't get any love anymore unless if he is 13 (lol), 18, 19, 20 or 21 years old?

I don't have any particular (good or bad) opinion about Lenglet, but I find it funny how much love are De Jong, De Light and Arthur getting, while Lenglet is "done with his developing" and nothing special.

You just complained about how much love 23 year old Samper and 22 year old Arthur are getting...And Leon Goretzka of course who is also 23. Then you complain that only people who are 18-21 gets love? Make up your mind.

I think you are wrong, hardly anyone thinks Samper is good enough and Arthur is given the benefit of the doubt as he's yet to play in Europe.

 

[Jombi]

There were a few comments like: he is "already" 23... (Again, Samper is 23 and a half, Arthur is 22, Dembele is 21. It is not as if those guys are 15 years younger than a veteran Lenglet).
Also, in Dembele's thread, if he plays bad or average, we always hear: but he is young, he has so much potential, he will improve.
About Arthur, the same: he needs time, in a few seasons he could turn into a new Xavi.

While on this topic, I haven't seen any exaggerated overhyped comments like:
Lenglet could be the new Bartresi, sorry, Maldini, Baresi or Puyol in 5-10 years, once when he gets more experience and playing time in our system.

I am sad because Lenglet isn't getting any crazy, unrealistic hype
And in the same time, it is a nice phenomenom to analyze, how some players will get some unrealistice levels of hype, love and alibies for all their flaws, while others are welcomed with a lukewarm reception from the day 1 for some reason.
I have a feeling that even Mina received more hype when he was coming.



Yeah, but he is like 13 years old currently, right?

Jokes aside, even if he will develop and mature perfectly, he won't be ready for some serious CL's football at least 3-4 more years, in THE BEST CASE SCENARIO.
He played 30-40 senior matches in his whole career, right?
Zero La Liga experience.
Zero Barca's experience.
Zero experience in a big club under pressure.
Zero NT experience.
Zero CL's experience.
Zero experience against Cr7, Atletico's thugs and cheaters etc.

So, in short, no matter whom we'll buy, Rakitic will probably again be the most played Barca's midfield for 2-3 more years.
Thiago has his flaws and will be injured for 9 Months per season.
De Jong will play a serious football from 2022-2023-2024.
Arthur, in the best case, might start to play some serious football in 2 years.
Alena is 4-5 years away from some serious football also.

Short term, these kids are offering absolutely nothing, imo.

In that sense, now we are buying Lenglet, who is "already" 23.
Players aged 23-26 are the best bet longeterm.
They are ready to play right away and they can still improve, at least these younger guys.

De Jong is 21 now and the best case for you is that he will be ready to play for us when he is 25? Where do you come up with this? What exactly is it in the way he plays, his quality that makes you so convinced he is that terrible? He would be the same age as Umtiti if he joins next season, which is likely and Umtiti became an instant starter. You complained endlessly about Leon Goretzka not being a good cheap option, claiming he was so inexperienced and young, yet he is 23, tall and strong and has played 5 seasons in the Bundesliga and will join Bayern. What is the logic behind this?

 

[ebieymjunior]

The problem I see is that Lenglet is a perfectly capable backup but "nothing-too-special" left footed CB (as in not-Umtiti-contender-special) with some future potential, while Cuenca (in Barca B) is also a perfectly capable backup left footed CB with future potential and we already have him for FREE! And we have Vermaelen whose also good when fit (in the extreme situation if neither him nor Umtiti are available, we can still use Cuenca: that's what the reserves should be for).

Why not buy de Ligt, who's a perfectly capable backup "quite-special" right footed CB with future potential who would eventually take over from Pique as a starter in a few years at most?
If we should buy players, we shouldn't buy backups, especially not "for the future" backups, cause let's face it, Umtiti is keeping that left sided CB spot.

Lenglet is not bad, but just not necessary, just like Gomes, Vidal, Digne, etc. They shouldn't keep making the same mistake...

 

[xXKonan]

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Says Sevilla want us to pay the clause as they rejected two of our offers. Negotiations continue.

 

[KingMessi]

#SeQueda

 

[BBZ8800]

De Jong is 21 now and the best case for you is that he will be ready to play for us when he is 25? Where do you come up with this? What exactly is it in the way he plays, his quality that makes you so convinced he is that terrible? He would be the same age as Umtiti if he joins next season, which is likely and Umtiti became an instant starter. You complained endlessly about Leon Goretzka not being a good cheap option, claiming he was so inexperienced and young, yet he is 23, tall and strong and has played 5 seasons in the Bundesliga and will join Bayern. What is the logic behind this?

It is not about De Jong's footballing skills.
It is about experience.

Foreign players who come to Barca, usually need to already be world class proven players, or they need a few seasons here to adjust and develop, or, they need 3-4-5 good seasons in smaller leagues before coming to Barca.
Umtiti played 5 years in French league 1.
Neymar is a rare example who made it here, but even he played a lot in Brasil and won their Champions league, right, as a key player?
When you buy a player like Quaresma, Halilovic, Semedo and similar, who had 1-2 senior seasons, then you usually get players who are either frauds or will need a few seasons to reach Barca's level.

Frenkie played 37 (!!), lol, senior matches for Ajax and you are expecting him to be ready soon for Barca's level and for CL quarters against Atletico and Bayern?

I know that you guys don't like stats and that you say that each player is unique, but there are some worrying stats regarding young foreign players coming to Barca.
Similar players since 2000':
Fabio Rochemback 19, Brazil: stayed 2 seasons, fail
Saviola, 19, Argentina: stayed 3 seasons, fail
Geovani Deiberson, 21, Brazil: stayed 2 seasons, fail
Christanval, 22, France: stayed 2 seasons, fail
Quaresma, 18, Portugal: stayed 1 season, fail
Caceres, 21, Uruguay: stayed 1 season, fail
Henrique, 21, Brazil: -, fail
Keirrison, 20, Brazil: -, fail
Chyngryksiy, 22, Ukraine: stayed 1 season, fail
Halilovic, Croatia
Digne, 22, France
Gomes, 22, Portugal

Alexis, 22, Chile: stayed 3 season, average success
Dembele, 20 ?? Not known yet
Semedo, 23 ?? Not known yet
Mina, 23 ?? Not known yet

Success:
Ronaldinho, 23, Brazil
Etoo, 23 (but probably 25 or 26)
Neymar, 21, Brazil
Mats, 22, Germany: starter at the age 24
Umtiti, 22, France

21 transfer since 2000'.
Succes:
Ronaldinho 23:
-- world cup winner
-- 3 years in Brasil
-- 2 years in Europe (Psg), 5 years of senior football + lots of NT matches

Etoo:
-- we don't know his age
-- played 5 full La liga season for Mallorca before coming to Barca
-- lots of NT matches also

Neymar:
-- 4 full season at Santos
-- won Copa Libertadores, being the best player there
-- had 30-40 NT matches on his shoulders already

Umititi:
-- 5 years for Lyon before coming to Barca

Mats:
-- 3 full season at Monchengladbach
-- and started to be a starter in his 6th senior season (3rd season at Barca)
-- started to play awesome in his 7th senior season

Now, let's go back to Frenkie:
He played 26 league matches in his senior career.
0 NT matches (right?)

Now, I know that each player is unique, but as you see, some things are repeating ALL THE TIME.
There is always a rare case like Gabriel Jesus who plays well from the day 1, but probably 90-99% of other players will struggle for years or fail.

Now, can you explain to me, how a young kid from a foreign country, coming to a new club, with zero La Liga/CL/big club experience will be able to play on a world class level, before, let's say 2021/22 season?
And even THAT is a best case scenario (if he will fit and develop min ALL other areas, which rarely happens).

Arthur and De Jong sound like good pairing Cm for a level of Ajax or Benfica.
in 3-4 years, MAYBE (a huge maybe) they will be able to be starters for a big club.

There are so many other things needed for a player to succeed at Barca than simple: he has technique and nice passes/dribbles.

 

[KingMessi]

Not everyone follows the same pattern of career development though.