Cristiano Ronaldo - v1

[Jägermeister]

Wow did you took it out of the context!
Superficial readers are stupid. Sorry for being rude.

Tbf there wasn't much context.
You are arguing by leaving out everything that does't suit your point of view. This is not how this works, though...

Denying that Ronaldo is a top tier footballer is laughable really.
(Never thought I'd ever defend Ronaldo )

 

[Bertus]

But scoring doesn't cover the entire part of football, while all actors pretty much do is acting. Of course Ronaldo is a fantastic player but it was merely to emphasise that he only excels in 1 area as opposed to players like Messi who are more complete.

Going to say it again, you don't need to take away Ronaldo's goals if you want to argue that messi is a more complete player.

It's very easy to belittle somebody if you take away his best quality. But it's a fallacy to do it. It doesn't work like that.

Also, remember that not all people are comparing players based on their best years. It's totally understandable if there are people that think Ronaldo is doing better for RM than Messi does at barcelona for quite some times now.

 

[dakt]

Tbf there wasn't much context.
You are arguing by leaving out everything that does't suit your point of view. This is not how this works, though...

Really? Where was I "leaving out everything that does't suit mine point of view". In fact, I was trying to get the story off the stats which are holly grail for most of you.

Denying that Ronaldo is a top tier footballer is laughable really.
(Never thought I'd ever defend Ronaldo )

I wasn't denying his "glory", but reducing the overall hype about him, especially when saying that he's up there with Messi.
Ronaldo is excellent footballer, but so is Robben.

 

[dakt]

It's very easy to belittle somebody if you take away his best quality. But it's a fallacy to do it. It doesn't work like that.

This is becoming very tedious, but it looks like you need special explanation.

"For fuck sake, take away fucking goals from Cristina what are you left with?
Ronaldo becomes an average, while all these players for who you say are less the Ronaldo, stay fucking amazing."


So what that means is when you take away his scoring sheet, you're left with average player with high self opinion. While when you take away scoring sheet from Messi, you're left with great dribbler and playmaker.
That was also my reaction to putting Ronaldo above Maradona who doesn't have no where near amount of goals as he does but never the less he's put by many as best ever.

 

[DonAK]

Even if you take out the goals from Cristiano he is a player most opposition defences would hate come up against. He is still very dangerous with his pace and movement. And while he is not really a playmaker or anywhere good as some others, he still do create chances for his team mates who more often that not, waste it(same in Messi's case lol).

He don't become average without the goals. He's still a very good player and even when he is shit in some matches, he creates danger with the ball. He got quite a decent assists tally as well.

So it's not like scoring is the only thing he does and is good at.

 

[Bertus]

This is becoming very tedious, but it looks like you need special explanation.

"For fuck sake, take away fucking goals from Cristina what are you left with?
Ronaldo becomes an average, while all these players for who you say are less the Ronaldo, stay fucking amazing."


So what that means is when you take away his scoring sheet, you're left with average player with high self opinion. While when you take away scoring sheet from Messi, you're left with great dribbler and playmaker.
That was also my reaction to putting Ronaldo above Maradona who doesn't have no where near amount of goals as he does but never the less he's put by many as best ever.

If that's your special explanation, you should not have bothered.

As said above, even without the goals it's not his only quality. But taking away the goals is a fallacy anyways, not that expect you to understand what a fallacy is.

As if Ronaldo was average. I think I read it all.

 

[Doobs]

This discussion will never get old.

Funniest part is that there is no debate

 

[DonAndres]

If that's your special explanation, you should not have bothered.

As said above, even without the goals it's not his only quality. But taking away the goals is a fallacy anyways, not that expect you to understand what a fallacy is.

As if Ronaldo was average. I think I read it all.

I fully agree with what you've said in the matter over the last few pages. If one is 'taking away goals' to make a point regarding Ronaldo we might as well 'take away passing' and call Xavi an average player. There is weight to the argument of being a complete player and having a more complex/important role in the team but dakt's pont is ridiculous.

Over the past few weeks and months I've noticed dakt has amped up the praise of Messi as GOAT, impeccable, and looking for any moment to shit on Ronaldo without provocation. It's one thing to have the belief that Messi is better but the way he does it is to completely undermine/disregard any and every factor that could put Ronaldo's performance above Messi's. It's essentially saying "he isn't better than Messi because he isn't Messi and doesn't do what Messi does". It's as insecure as it gets.

 

[Morten]

I lost count of how many times Ronaldo has set up Benzema etc. this season, only for them to mess it up. He isnt the best creator in the world, but by no means is he a bad one.

 

[Bertus]

I fully agree with what you've said in the matter over the last few pages. If one is 'taking away goals' to make a point regarding Ronaldo we might as well 'take away passing' and call Xavi an average player. There is weight to the argument of being a complete player and having a more complex/important role in the team but dakt's pont is ridiculous.

Over the past few weeks and months I've noticed dakt has amped up the praise of Messi as GOAT, impeccable, and looking for any moment to shit on Ronaldo without provocation. It's one thing to have the belief that Messi is better but the way he does it is to completely undermine/disregard any and every factor that could put Ronaldo's performance above Messi's. It's essentially saying "he isn't better than Messi because he isn't Messi and doesn't do what Messi does". It's as insecure as it gets.

He supresses evidences at will among other fallacies like observational selections. Yet I'm sure he feels he's an expert in debate.

I'm not a teenager anymore, but I wish other people would have learned about those common fallacies at school like when I was a teenager/student.

 

[Antimadridista1]

But scoring doesn't cover the entire part of football, while all actors pretty much do is acting. Of course Ronaldo is a fantastic player but it was merely to emphasise that he only excels in 1 area as opposed to players like Messi who are more complete.

+1 .
Désolé Bertus, mais il a raison

 

[dakt]

I fully agree with what you've said in the matter over the last few pages. If one is 'taking away goals' to make a point regarding Ronaldo we might as well 'take away passing' and call Xavi an average player. There is weight to the argument of being a complete player and having a more complex/important role in the team but dakt's pont is ridiculous.

Well established "fact" is that Ronaldo is better then Messi because he's more versatile. I will always dispute that. I watch Ronaldo quite a lot and I don't see that extra quality that can place him on the same level with Messi, Maradona, Pele.
The thing with Xavi is that no one is pushing him to the GOAT throne. If someone wants that extra level then he should be profound in more then just one segment. If goal count is enough to claim the GOAT throne, then Maradona is overrated.

Over the past few weeks and months I've noticed dakt has amped up the praise of Messi as GOAT, impeccable, and looking for any moment to shit on Ronaldo without provocation. It's one thing to have the belief that Messi is better but the way he does it is to completely undermine/disregard any and every factor that could put Ronaldo's performance above Messi's. It's essentially saying "he isn't better than Messi because he isn't Messi and doesn't do what Messi does". It's as insecure as it gets.

It's not past few weeks or months, but a lot longer on and off these boards and will continue since putting that diving diva beside Leo is equal to underrating Leo.
Ronaldo is great striker. Period.

 

[valk]

I have nothing against people who say that Messi is better than Ronaldo. I'm a Madrid fan and I know that. But when I see people saying that he is so much better and that Ronaldo is an average player I . He is better and will always be, but not that much better.

btw, if you want to look objective, cut the stuff like "diving diva" or "cristina"

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Can we agree that my post is the best and that we should drop this discussion forever and ever.:beer2:

 

[NotInHere]

I semi agree with dakt, I wouldn't necessarily call him average if you took away his goal ability, because you never know kind of abilities he would have had if he wasn't a goliador, he might have gotten better in other areas such as dribbling or 1 vs 1 with his strong work ethic. You can't really call someone of Ronaldos caliber average if his goal form wouldn't be what its now though, he would still command a lot of respect based on the strong work ethic he has when his on the pitch.

But if you took his scoring instinct away he would be less special seeing that his not the worlds best at either dribbling, 1 vs 1, or as a creator. But his goal instinct right now is the best right now no doubt, and sadly goals are what people look for the most in Football, anyone in here that plays some type of Football, doesn't have to be professional, would tell you that scoring goals is not easy at all.