Daniel Alves

Irish_Cules

New member
Fun fact:

Barca 70% possesion -> Alves 70% offensive, link-up duties.
Opponent 30% possesion -> Alves 30% defensive duties.

What you are saying is that you want Alves to be defending when we have the ball and that's so uncharacteristic for Barcelona. When we have the ball, we go forward, that's how we are. So, naturally, Alves goes forward too. As I said, that's 70% of the time against 99% of the teams out there. So, 70% of the time, Dani Alves is an attacking player.

We just don't take precautionary measures. We are a high-risk team, always operating with fine margins. People need to understand that and to accept the way we play the game.

You're completely ignoring the fact that we were at our best when we had a quite limited (attacking-wise) Abidal on the left and Alves on the right. If we had a more defensive minded right back then Jordi Alba would become our main attacking full back and a hugely effective one at that. Dani has been vital to this teams success and he is unique in what he offers us but his consistency is nowhere near what it used to be. I used to get frustrated sometimes when Abidal was attacking and showed that he is primarily a defender but the security that he provided us with in defence was undoubtedly worth it. Don't get me wrong, I understand completely that Dani provide us with some great attributes but the idea that having a slightly more solid right back and allowing Jordia Alba to attack more is not the Barcelona way is complete nonsense.
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Fun fact:

Barca 70% possesion -> Alves 70% offensive, link-up duties.
Opponent 30% possesion -> Alves 30% defensive duties.

What you are saying is that you want Alves to be defending when we have the ball and that's so uncharacteristic for Barcelona. When we have the ball, we go forward, that's how we are. So, naturally, Alves goes forward too. As I said, that's 70% of the time against 99% of the teams out there. So, 70% of the time, Dani Alves is an attacking player.

We just don't take precautionary measures. We are a high-risk team, always operating with fine margins. People need to understand that and to accept the way we play the game.

Obviously he should be allowed to attack but you're missing the point here. The main dip in Alves' play is that he simply doesn't do it intelligently anymore.
-His linkup and movement up the flank is very valuable for us and leads to a lot of possible chances.... until he starts spraying crosses for no reason that we're VERY unlikely to score given his inaccuracy and our players. We could very easily find a better path to goal with cutbacks, wall passes, etc. instead of hoofing it with almost no efficiency.

-Him being an extra option in attack to outnumber the opponent is great, until he keeps loitering up there even when the ball isn't on his flank instead of making well timed runs/movements forward.

-I admire the amount of effort he puts in attack.... but he has less than 1/2 that effort in defense. He needs to cover more ground and maintain a presence in defense rather than staying up there, jogging back, and then leaving Pique to drift wide and stretch our defense to be unbelievably open. Then Alves apologists say that "his teammates should've covered him more".

All of that, it's just a result of being a smarter player. He wouldn't lose any attacking potency (he'd actually shed some of his attacking uselessness) and he'd be less of a culprit in our defense even if he isn't the best defensive fullback. That was all great when he was in a disciplined tactical system under Pep, he'd have license to go forward but a disciplined duty/role to play as well as being covered by a 3 man backline with Abidal. Since then under Tito and now Tata, things are far less disciplined. He gets tactical instructions but he's much more of an individual than a supporting player of a unit, therefore bringing in a lot of raw bullshit as baggage to his usually amazing self.
 

Alarcón

New member
I think no one here wants Dani to abandon his attacking mentality but he shouldn't neglect his defensive duties either. He was caught out of position way too many times this season, he often doesn't bother to track back even if dangerous situations are emerging, he barely blocks crosses anymore and lately, his 1-on-1's have also been horrible. If you want to see how the full-back role at Barça is properly executed, look at Alba's last season or Alves from 08/09 to 10/11. The current Alves is no comparison to that and it would be foolish to assume that his defensive contribution is only suffering due to his role at Barça - it's suffering because of his negligence and his shortcomings.
 

mac10

New member
Obviously he should be allowed to attack but you're missing the point here. The main dip in Alves' play is that he simply doesn't do it intelligently anymore.
-His linkup and movement up the flank is very valuable for us and leads to a lot of possible chances.... until he starts spraying crosses for no reason that we're VERY unlikely to score given his inaccuracy and our players. We could very easily find a better path to goal with cutbacks, wall passes, etc. instead of hoofing it with almost no efficiency.

-Him being an extra option in attack to outnumber the opponent is great, until he keeps loitering up there even when the ball isn't on his flank instead of making well timed runs/movements forward.

-I admire the amount of effort he puts in attack.... but he has less than 1/2 that effort in defense. He needs to cover more ground and maintain a presence in defense rather than staying up there, jogging back, and then leaving Pique to drift wide and stretch our defense to be unbelievably open. Then Alves apologists say that "his teammates should've covered him more".

All of that, it's just a result of being a smarter player. He wouldn't lose any attacking potency (he'd actually shed some of his attacking uselessness) and he'd be less of a culprit in our defense even if he isn't the best defensive fullback. That was all great when he was in a disciplined tactical system under Pep, he'd have license to go forward but a disciplined duty/role to play as well as being covered by a 3 man backline with Abidal. Since then under Tito and now Tata, things are far less disciplined. He gets tactical instructions but he's much more of an individual than a supporting player of a unit, therefore bringing in a lot of raw bullshit as baggage to his usually amazing self.

:yes:
 

Cule4life

The Culest
Finally some sense in this thread.

One reason I wouldn't mind Alves leaving is that just like many alves apologists here, he himself believes in his hype and is clinging to past glories. Doesn't work hard anymore. Moreover he blames the fans rather than introspect. His attitude stinks and there is nobody to call him out for it.

Tata? He himself is under pressure and always tries to please the big names

The board-the less said about them the better

I don't hate the player. Heck I loved him from 2008-12. But i think he is the past the point of return and needs to be moved on. The team needs to be refreshed to bring that hunger and motivation back
 
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serghei

Senior Member
Obviously he should be allowed to attack but you're missing the point here. The main dip in Alves' play is that he simply doesn't do it intelligently anymore.

Really? 2 goals scored against City, 0 goals conceded on his flank. That looks like inteligent attacking to me.
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Really? 2 goals scored against City, 0 goals conceded on his flank. That looks like inteligent attacking to me.

Come on mate you should know how superficial of an analysis that is. You practically ignored 90% of my post.

Looking at goal stats of two games isn't gonna justify his entire playing style, there's no in depth look at his play if you do it like that. I could just as easily say that Song has only lost one game with Barcelona, must be a great DM then right? Barca was in total control vs. City, there was no NEED for Alves to play intelligently as he pretty much had attacking license the entire two legs. Even then I concede he had good games in those legs as he focused more on linkup than he did on crossing.

You could bring up good games from Alves but you're really not disproving my point. What I'm saying is that despite whatever good play he brings, there's a shit-ton of baggage along with that. He has intuitive quality when it comes to linking up on the flank which is what made him the best RB in the world before but his overall positional intelligence and decision making has been poor and been the culprit for a lot of bad plays/moments. Now in a less disciplined system, he's much more of an individual and does whatever he feels like.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Obviously he should be allowed to attack but you're missing the point here. The main dip in Alves' play is that he simply doesn't do it intelligently anymore.
-His linkup and movement up the flank is very valuable for us and leads to a lot of possible chances.... until he starts spraying crosses for no reason that we're VERY unlikely to score given his inaccuracy and our players. We could very easily find a better path to goal with cutbacks, wall passes, etc. instead of hoofing it with almost no efficiency.

-Him being an extra option in attack to outnumber the opponent is great, until he keeps loitering up there even when the ball isn't on his flank instead of making well timed runs/movements forward.

-I admire the amount of effort he puts in attack.... but he has less than 1/2 that effort in defense. He needs to cover more ground and maintain a presence in defense rather than staying up there, jogging back, and then leaving Pique to drift wide and stretch our defense to be unbelievably open. Then Alves apologists say that "his teammates should've covered him more".

All of that, it's just a result of being a smarter player. He wouldn't lose any attacking potency (he'd actually shed some of his attacking uselessness) and he'd be less of a culprit in our defense even if he isn't the best defensive fullback. That was all great when he was in a disciplined tactical system under Pep, he'd have license to go forward but a disciplined duty/role to play as well as being covered by a 3 man backline with Abidal. Since then under Tito and now Tata, things are far less disciplined. He gets tactical instructions but he's much more of an individual than a supporting player of a unit, therefore bringing in a lot of raw bullshit as baggage to his usually amazing self.


1. His movement is not restricted to moving back and forth in the right flank. He also comes in the middle. So, to talk about Dani Alves as just a RB means to talk about Messi as just a striker. They both have many facets to their game. Just like Messi - who sometimes plays as a classic 9, sometimes as an attacking midfielder and sometimes as a winger - Alves occupies positions that are associated with a defender, a wingman or even a playmaker.

2. To use Dani as just a RB who goes up only when it's 100% safe, means to own a Ferrari and drive it with no more than 100 km/h because you're afraid of accidents. In that case, sell the Ferrari and buy a Fiat. The Fiat is eco-friendly, safe and cheap. It's all about risks and rewards. Dani Alves takes risks, but they usually pay off and they transform in rewards. At. Madrid away, 1-1, Dani Alves assisted Neymar for the goal that brought us the first title this season. Real Madrid, 2-1, Dani Alves shut down Ronaldo and then embarassed him by putting the ball through his legs. City, both legs, he showed Zabaleta how a real world class player plays and made the ITV commentators praise him almost every time he touched the ball.

3. Dani Alves does not limit himself to just executing well-timed runs, because he is also involved in the build-up part of our game. He is one of those players who can make a difference with a moment of inspiration and who can provide great passing. Again, something no other RB except Lahm can do.

4. We have many players that do what they shouldn't be doing in their positions. That's why the media called Barca the greatest team ever. Because we don't play it safe and we do what others don't dare to do. Busquets should not try fancy dribbles in dangerous positions, but he does. Why? 'Cause he can. With Alves it's the same.


I think Alves is the best or second best RB in the world right now. We payed around 35 million euros for him in 2008. You don't pay that much money for a player that plays like a regular RB. You can find OK RBs for 15-20m. They'll play good football, but they won't ever manage to produce the magic Alves has produced over the years for Barcelona. Or some of the brilliant stuff HE STILL PRODUCES.
 
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Ursegor

World Champion
Against Espanyol he looked like someone told him he's going to be sold at the end of the season so he doesn't even care anymore. Some of those wayward passes into Espanyol's strikers were nightmarish. And then you have Pedro charging all the way back and making a last ditch tackle in our own box with Alves nowhere to be seen.

I think he's at a point now where he's won absolutely everything with Barca multiple times so he's just enjoying life a bit with a very lax attitude. Unfortunately Montoya still can't outperform him and there aren't many options to replace him with in the transfer market. I honestly don't have a clue what to do with him at the end of the season.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Against Espanyol he looked like someone told him he's going to be sold at the end of the season so he doesn't even care anymore. Some of those wayward passes into Espanyol's strikers were nightmarish. And then you have Pedro charging all the way back and making a last ditch tackle in our own box with Alves nowhere to be seen.

He was poor. Only played like FIVE key passes, including the one that brought us a pen. He made a brilliant pass for Messi with the exterior of his right foot, and he put the ball perfectly on Neymar's leg for what should have been a clear goal. He also made two crosses. One that landed on Neymar's head and one that landed on Messi's head. He was virtually involved in all 4 great scoring chances we had in the first half of the game. And he was poor.

Jesus, man. If that is poor, than I have nothing more to say.
 
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Gohan

Super Saiyan
1. His movement is not restricted to moving back and forth in the right flank. He also comes in the middle. So, to talk about Dani Alves as just a RB means to talk about Messi as just a striker. They both have many facets to their game. Just like Messi - who sometimes plays as a classic 9, sometimes as an attacking midfielder and sometimes as a winger - Alves occupies positions that are associated with a defender, a wingman or even a playmaker.

2. To use Dani as just a RB who goes up only when it's 100% safe, means to own a Ferrari and drive it with no more than 100 km/h because you're afraid of accidents. In that case, sell the Ferrari and buy a Fiat. The Fiat is eco-friendly, safe and cheap. It's all about risks and rewards. Dani Alves takes risks, but they usually pay off and they transform in rewards. At. Madrid away, 1-1, Dani Alves assisted Neymar for the goal that brought us the first title this season. Real Madrid, 2-1, Dani Alves shut down Ronaldo and then embarassed him by putting the ball through his legs. City, both legs, he showed Zabaleta how a real world class player plays and made the ITV commentators praise him almost every time he touched the ball.

3. Dani Alves does not limit himself to just executing well-timed runs, because he is also involved in the build-up part of our game. He is one of those players who can make a difference with a moment of inspiration and who can provide great passing. Again, something no other RB except Lahm can do.

4. We have many players that do what they shouldn't be doing in their positions. That's why the media called Barca the greatest team ever. Because we don't play it safe and we do what others don't dare to do. Busquets should not try fancy dribbles in dangerous positions, but he does. Why? 'Cause he can. With Alves it's the same.


I think Alves is the best or second best RB in the world right now. We payed around 35 million euros for him in 2008. You don't pay that much money for a player that plays like a regular RB. You can find OK RBs for 15-20m. They'll play good football, but they won't ever manage to produce the magic Alves has produced over the years for Barcelona. Or some of the brilliant stuff HE STILL PRODUCES.

The ferrari part is perfect, good post.
 

Cule4life

The Culest
He was poor. Only played like FIVE key passes, including the one that brought us a pen. He made a brilliant pass for Messi with the exterior of his right foot, and he put the ball perfectly on Neymar's leg for what should have been a clear goal. He also made two crosses. One that landed on Neymar's head and one that landed on Messi's head. He was virtually involved in all 4 great scoring chances we had in the first half of the game. And he was poor.

Jesus, man. If that is poor, than I have nothing more to say.

Alves is that you? The root of our defensive problems is that everybody loves to attack. Nobody likes to do the "dirty work" of defending. When even our defenders push forward its little surprise that we have frequent 3vs2 and 4vs2 counter situations.

You sound like a broken record by defending Alves by saying he had good build up play when nobody is even saying that he didn't. You conveniently ignore and have nothing to say about his shoddy defensive performance for the past couple years. Not to say his attitude of blaming the fans.

You sound like Xavi when we lose who ignores our weaknesses by saying "we had more possession". Yeah Alves doesnt defend, jogs back, doesnt even try to stop crosses "but he had good build up play"
 
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serghei

Senior Member
Alves is that you? The root of our defensive problems is that everybody loves to attack. Nobody likes to do the "dirty work" of defending. When even our defenders push forward its little surprise that we have frequent 3vs2 and 4vs2 counter situations.

You sound like a broken record by defending Alves by saying he had good build up play when nobody is even saying that he didn't. You conveniently ignore and have nothing to say about his shoddy defensive performance for the past couple years. Not to say his attitude of blaming the fans.

You sound like Xavi when we lose who ignores our weaknesses by saying "we had more possession". Yeah Alves doesnt defend, jogs back, doesnt even try to stop crosses "but he had good build up play"

Of course I have something to say about his mistakes. He made up for those and then some with his brilliant passing in the Espanyol game. If Messi and Neymar would have scored from those clear chances that Alves created with his passing, the match would have been over after the first 20 min. of the game.
 

Ursegor

World Champion
He was poor. Only played like FIVE key passes, including the one that brought us a pen. He made a brilliant pass for Messi with the exterior of his right foot, and he put the ball perfectly on Neymar's leg for what should have been a clear goal. He also made two crosses. One that landed on Neymar's head and one that landed on Messi's head. He was virtually involved in all 4 great scoring chances we had in the first half of the game. And he was poor.

Jesus, man. If that is poor, than I have nothing more to say.

Entire defense (Pique, Mascherano, Alba, Busquets) is back. Alves is missing completely.

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Guess who is trailing 5 meters behind his marker again who misses a gaping net?

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Couple of good crosses doesn't change that he was wank defensively.

If this is how Barca's rightback is supposed to play then Cuadrado is actually a very nice idea as his attacking impetus is far better than Alves'es right now and defensively he will be equally good at jogging back and trailing his markers.

I'm not even his biggest critic. Maybe some will remember how I defended him at the beginning of the season. But when he is wank then I'll call him wank.
 

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