Ernesto Valverde - V1

[serghei]

No it isnt relevant.

You are arguing that Bayern, City and Real have been better going forward this season than Barca have.

Barca have Messi and terrible argument to try and use Barcas biggest strength against them.

Where were you when Atletico beat us two times because they blocked Messi and we couldn't create anything without him on Calderon. Scored a grand total of 0 goals in 2 decisive games vs Atletico away. It has happened before, so of course that the more you depend on Messi the weaker you are when he is blocked.

 

[JamDav1982]

Where were you when Atletico beat us two times because they blocked Messi and we couldn't create anything without him on Calderon. Scored a grand total of 0 goals in 2 decisive games vs Atletico away.

I was watching the game and Messi along with rest of team was poor. Bad form at wrong time of season against a side far more than just Messi had excelled against in other games.

Messi plays for Barca and is part of the attack this season. Barca have scored more, created more and played stronger sides than Bayern and Messi is part of that.

 

[serghei]

I was watching the game and Messi along with rest of team was poor. Bad form at wrong time of season against a side far more than just Messi had excelled against in other games.

Messi plays for Barca and is part of the attack this season. Barca have scored more, created more and played stronger sides than Bayern and Messi is part of that.

But Messi being poor is affecting the team 4 times more than other attacking player being poor. Which is the whole point. If Messi is not up for it in the semis, we're done.

 

[JamDav1982]

But Messi being poor is affecting the team 4 times more than other attacking player being poor. Which is the whole point. If Messi is not up for it in the semis, we're done.

No it didnt '4 times'.

The whole team was poor and Barca beat Atletico in other games with Messi not being the best player.

Every team will be affected by their top player being off form anyway.

Point remains Messi is part of Barca attack and that is all to be considered.

Again.....what have Bayern done this season to be rated above Barca going forward?

 

[LeeRomeno]

Nothing under Pep was ever boring. It didn't always worked out because of bad luck mostly, but boring? Never. This is 3 times more boring.

Oh it was, at times it was unbearable to watch, even more to neutrals. Never shooting unless you can walk the ball into net and endless passing to each other in midfield if we faced parked bus.
For me best Barcelona ever was under Luchos treble season. Fast, attacking, entertaining and such a variety of goals.
Current season reminds me alot of Peps Barca, we just have worse midfield, so passing is not as neat and fast and Valverde is more pragmatic and is totally okey in taking foot off gaspedal after leading with couple of goals. (or then he is not, but squad is, if you listen to after match comments from coach)

 

[serghei]

No it didnt '4 times'.

The whole team was poor and Barca beat Atletico in other games with Messi not being the best player.

Every team will be affected by their top player being off form anyway.

Point remains Messi is part of Barca attack and that is all to be considered.

Again.....what have Bayern done this season to be rated above Barca going forward?

You expect stats? There aren't any. I just think they are a better team than us. Plus side, I'll have massive respect for Valverde if his Barca will kick out a team like Bayern in the CL semis. Which should happen, if you think we're better than them.

 

[JamDav1982]

You expect stats? There aren't any. I just think they are a better team than us. Plus side, I'll have massive respect for Valverde if his Barca will kick out a team like Bayern in the CL semis. Which should happen, if you think we're better than them.

But you use stats to show City are better then use criteria to discount Barca such as 'tested in CL'.

With a fit Messi on form as he has been this season are Barca a worse attacking side than Bayern, City and Real to this point?

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Steady on. I am applying the rules Seghi has set.

Messi was influential under Rijkaard though. Was best player as Barca put out Chelsea. Probably toughest team.

But wasn't the talisman . I know he was excellent against Chelsea . But it was Dinho who knocked out Milan and probably Larsen was our best player in the final unlike 2011 and 2009 when Messi was part of everything we created

 

[JamDav1982]

But wasn't the talisman . I know he was excellent against Chelsea . But it was Dinho who knocked out Milan and probably Larsen was our best player in the final unlike 2011 and 2009 when Messi was part of everything we created

Never said he was talisman.

You said he had was not unfluential. He was.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Barca under Pep wasn't the most entertaining Barca . It may be the best club side of the century . But Lucho's treble winning side was breath taking and entertaining .

Never said he was talisman.

You said he had was not unfluential. He was.

Like 2009 and 2011 ? . He didn't even played Sf and Final , man

 

[serghei]

But you use stats to show City are better then use criteria to discount Barca such as 'tested in CL'.

With a fit Messi on form as he has been this season are Barca a worse attacking side than Bayern, City and Real?

I also watch City regularly and their offensive game is more impressive than Barca's.

It's not enough to play as he's done this season to beat Madrid in CL. Probably not Bayern either. He needs to play even better. More like how he did last year in the 3-2 clasico. If he plays like he did vs Chelsea away, we're most likely out.

 

[JamDav1982]

Like 2009 and 2011 ? . He didn't even played Sf and Final , man

You said Rijkaard won it without any influence from Messi. Not true.

Can try and add anything you want after that but that was what comment was in response to.

I also watch City regularly and their offensive game is more impressive than Barca's.

It's not enough to play as he's done this season to beat Madrid in CL. Probably not Bayern either. He needs to play even better. More like how he did last year in the 3-2 clasico. If he plays like he did vs Chelsea away, we're most likely out.

So why do you think Barca will go through v Bayern but now say so far the one player who 90% of attacks go through has not been at level to beat them?

Again will ask have Barca to this point been a poorer attacking side than City, Real and Bayern?

No hypotheticals about Messi needed. Just output of attacking sides to far and if so based on what?

 

[serghei]

So why do you think Barca will go through v Bayern but now say so far the one player who 90% of attacks go through has not been at level to beat them?

I doubt Barca will go through vs Bayern or Madrid without Messi playing one of the best games of his career. I think this is a pretty clear statement. I even gave a type of relatively recent performance (Bernabeu 3-2 win) that would qualify as an amazing performance that would maybe be enough to beat two teams who I believe play better football than us.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Chelsea away won't happen in Bernabue . Madrid doesn't defend like that . There will be lot of chances for us with probably Kovacic running behind Messi all the time

You said Rijkaard won it without any influence from Messi. Not true.

Can try and add anything you want after that but that was what comment was in response to.

without him being influential means like the way he contributed in 2009 and 2011 . Yeah i know i didn't conveyed it better . I do have language issues . Anyway i didn't meant that he wasn't influential at all

I doubt Barca will go through vs Bayern or Madrid without Messi playing one of the best games of his career. I think this is a pretty clear statement.

Come on man give it a break . This logic . Without Messi being influential how many Cl tie did we won in the past except QSG comeback ?

 

[serghei]

You just said a few posts ago you think Barca would go through.

Now Messi has to play all time great game...

Where? Must have written something wrong.