Ernesto Valverde - V1

[Devils]

Ernesto 'Refuse to Lose' Valverde

Bossman just doesn't know how to lose a game. About to beat the record for number of undefeated games in La Liga history.

:wow:

 

[serghei]

That is on Pep not adapting to protect that defence a bit more then.

At Bayern he had some of the best defenders in the world and still got pumped by Barca and Real.

He had a better defence at Barca but also teams have evolved since 2011.

That Barca team changed football. Teams copied it and became more wise about how to counter it and all against poorer versions of it.

You know what? I don't believe teams figured out that Barca. I think that Barca declined in 2012, and from then it was never replicated. You put 2011 Barca right now and it blows every team away. It was that good.

Only the best defensive display in the history of the CL stopped that team from being 3 time in a row double (CL - La Liga) winners.

Pep doesn't have a team as good as that one. So, of course the chances he'll end up short are a lot bigger. That being said, he stil ripped the PL apart this season, running away with the title in winter.

 

[MessiCam]

Didn't we try to do this last season? Didn't end well.

Busquets and Rakitić, who form our midfield when the double pivot is used, are slow, but intelligent and technical and will keep control of the game if given enough space.
Similar systems are usually supported by an endurable player able to run which we don't have. In order to stay relevant, we let our pivots operate deeper so we are not as prone to counters as we used to be. It's not the case only when we are down and must attack.

This approach affects our attacking output. The midfield should carry the ball forward but since Rakitić and Busquets don't go too high (usually) it's all up to Messi and Iniesta (not counting the FBs who do it often). That's why most of our attacks go through him. That's a solid plan. But I'd also like us to be more versatile going forward.

I'd like to say that when Roberto is employed as a RM Raki and Busq are partly freed of their duties and can advance forward. For instance, Rakitić ran the show vs. Roma.

It appears that we are not strong defensively when we truly are but will never defend like Atletico does, different teams, different strategies.

e: wanna note that I'm not saying that duo is playing too deep and that they often go forward, but this is what I think the original plan is, if everything is right

You know what you just described??? Valverde's Bilbao team to a Tee. Also, Rakitic has the technical ability of giraffe...

The double pivot hasn't really helped in terms of facing counters and lately we're overwhelmed in midfield which results in Valverde having to bring on a extra CM to regain control.

What would you say if I told you that the xGA at the same point last season (31 rounds) was better than this season?

That is on Pep not adapting to protect that defence a bit more then.

At Bayern he had some of the best defenders in the world and still got pumped by Barca and Real.

He had a better defence at Barca but also teams have evolved since 2011.

That Barca team changed football. Teams copied it and became more wise about how to counter it and all against poorer versions of it.

Pep’s issues are more midfield related than defence related because for all their attacking prowess they have little in terms of control. He’s set his team up with 2 8’s because he just doesn’t have a player to set tempo. At Bayern he tried to paper over it by having either Vidal or Thiago assist the pivot but it was at best a band aide solution. Eventually he had to do the inevitable and resort to a double pivot of Vidal and Thiago.

 

[JamDav1982]

You know what? I don't believe teams figured out that Barca. I think that Barca declined in 2012, and from then it was never replicated. You put 2011 Barca right now and it blows every team away. It was that good.

Only the best defensive display in the history of the CL stopped that team from being 3 time in a row double (CL - La Liga) winners.

Pep doesn't have a team as good as that one. So, of course the chances he'll end up short are a lot bigger. That being said, he stil ripped the PL apart this season, running away with the title in winter.

Without a doubt teams copied Barca and became more wise as to how to counter the tactics.

It always happens in football. Constantly evolving.

The very fact Pep tried to change tactics in 2012 shows he knew it.

That doesnt mean that teams will definitely stop them or Pep can never win playing this way again but it is more difficult, he has poorer players and teams a are generally stronger and more wise to it.

Pep’s issues are more midfield related than defence related because for all their attacking prowess they have little in terms of control. He’s set his team up with 2 8’s because he just doesn’t have a player to set tempo. At Bayern he tried to paper over it by having either Vidal or Thiago assist the pivot but it was at best a band aide solution. Eventually he had to do the inevitable and resort to a double pivot of Vidal and Thiago.

It is both.

His midfields are being found to be too easy to counter and leaving a poorer defence exposed and that is all on Pep as it is when they win.

High risk game which has been getting exposed at top level of CL but I dont think he cant win that way.

 

[Horatio]

I think teams did have Barca figured out. Didn't they start to sit more deep as to not give Barca any space for tiki taka?

 

[Joan]

What would you say if I told you that the xGA at the same point last season (31 rounds) was better than this season?

Are you saying we defended better last season?

Rakitić is technically solid player.

 

[Stoichkov1]

You know what you just described??? Valverde's Bilbao team to a Tee. Also, Rakitic has the technical ability of giraffe...

The double pivot hasn't really helped in terms of facing counters and lately we're overwhelmed in midfield which results in Valverde having to bring on a extra CM to regain control.

What would you say if I told you that the xGA at the same point last season (31 rounds) was better than this season?

xGA is a crap stat.

Atletico is one of the best defensive teams in Europe and they have a xGA higher than Barca.

Or Napoli who has a xGA of 18 and Juve of 23.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I think teams did have Barca figured out. Didn't they start to sit more deep as to not give Barca any space for tiki taka?

Yeah, it was apparant with Inter's Mou and even RM in Liga,CDR and even in CL SF before the red card

 

[BBZ8800]

Where were you when Atletico beat us two times because they blocked Messi and we couldn't create anything without him on Calderon. Scored a grand total of 0 goals in 2 decisive games vs Atletico away. It has happened before, so of course that the more you depend on Messi the weaker you are when he is blocked.

It is not only about blocking Messi.
It is because we played a one dimensional possession style football, like Pep.

One dimensional, possession style based teams with funky defenses are not the way to go in 2018'.
Nor in the future, of course.

You know what? I don't believe teams figured out that Barca. I think that Barca declined in 2012, and from then it was never replicated. You put 2011 Barca right now and it blows every team away. It was that good.

Only the best defensive display in the history of the CL stopped that team from being 3 time in a row double (CL - La Liga) winners.

Pep doesn't have a team as good as that one. So, of course the chances he'll end up short are a lot bigger. That being said, he stil ripped the PL apart this season, running away with the title in winter.

There are only 2 options:
1. Either teams figured out Barca, Pep and TikiTaka after 2011
2. Or teams haven't figured out Barca, BUT Barca and Pep can't win CLs anymore because our teams are not as good as Pep's Barca in terms of quality

Either way, that means that we can't win a CL with that style anymore, because:
1. If teams have figured us out, we are in problems
2. We won't have Xavi-Iniesta ever again

The end for Pep's style either way.

 

[MessiCam]

xGA is a crap stat.

Atletico is one of the best defensive teams in Europe and they have a xGA higher than Barca.

Or Napoli who has a xGA of 18 and Juve of 23.

Goalkeepers dude. It’s little wonder that we’ve conceded so few because MatS has been in God mode.

Anyway, I like that you’ve just dismissed the xG off the bat. Probably because it doesn’t suit your agenda... But it shows you’re not interested in having a debate about this.

And Napoli having a lower xGA than Juventus is hardly surprising. They see significantly more of the ball than any other team in Serie A.

It is not only about blocking Messi.
It is because we played a one dimensional possession style football, like Pep.

One dimensional, possession style based teams with funky defenses are not the way to go in 2018'.
Nor in the future, of course.

Man City’s game is far from one dimensional. They play in the spaces, play through the middle, play on the wings and half spaces, Silva and KdB have complete freedom depending on how the opposition are setting up. The thing is when teams play that kind of football at that level there is little else to do but setup a low block. A medium block would be torn to shreds too.

Further to the point. If Pep’s teams are one dimensional I wonder what this Barça team is...

 

[Stoichkov1]

Goalkeepers dude. It’s little wonder that we’ve conceded so few because MatS has been in God mode.

Anyway, I like that you’ve just dismissed the xG off the bat. Probably because it doesn’t suit your agenda... But it shows you’re not interested in having a debate about this.

And Napoli having a lower xGA than Juventus is hardly surprising. They see significantly more of the ball than any other team in Serie A.

So for you Napoli has a better defence than Juve?

 

[JamDav1982]

Pep is not flexible tactically it is in some ways his teams biggest strength and biggest weakness.

They will try to dominate the ball in every game and other teams come into the game knowing the way they will play.

The CL winning teams and teams going deepest since Peps time at Barca have been the teams that can play with ball and can play on the break. Even Peps Barca when allowed space were the best team in the world on the break.

 

[MessiCam]

So for you Napoli has a better defence than Juve?

Yes and No. They concede less clear cut chances but let in more goals.

 

[Stoichkov1]

Yes and No. They concede less clear cut chances but let in more goals.

Yes or no?

 

[JamDav1982]

Yes and No. They concede less clear cut chances but let in more goals.

Who do you think has the best defence in europe?

What is the criteria you use?