Ernesto Valverde - V1

[Cruyff-Total Football]

Man City’s game is far from one dimensional. They play in the spaces, play through the middle, play on the wings and half spaces, Silva and KdB have complete freedom depending on how the opposition are setting up. The thing is when teams play that kind of football at that level there is little else to do but setup a low block. A medium block would be torn to shreds too.

Further to the point. If Pep’s teams are one dimensional I wonder what this Barça team is...

I haven't watched Manchester city play. But if your statement of how they play is correct, then they are one dimensional. They rely on build up play. If you park the bus, they can't do anything else unless you make a mistake. I've read many times this season that Otamendi scored goal when they needed it most. Multi dimensional is how RM and Bayern play. Imagine parking the bus against RM. Asensio is so lethal in low cross and Marcelo is so lethal is aerial cross. Almost all their players are excellent in crossing as well as heading the ball. Even Cristiano who is horrendous in build up plays similar to Suarez, is excellent in crossing.

For example, review the Varane shot which Oblak saved yesterday. If he headed the ball from such a distance, it is difficult to generate power and it would be normal save for Oblak. What he did is that he headed the ball in front of him so that he can shoot the volley at first bounce. But Oblak was too excellent that he came forward and narrowed his angular range of shooting. Now think about our team. Only good header is Pique. Umtiti can't even score tap in from set pieces that for him luckily it deflected off the defender and he celebrated the own goal by implying the badge Even Suarez who's expected to be the target man can't do shit in set pieces. Same is for Busquets. Rakitic is decent though. In Pep's time, 2011, no one other than Pique who could shoot a decent ball from aerial cross. That's why Lucho's 2015 Barca was so lethal. Because, they counterattacked, which gives opponents no possibility to park the bus. That's why I always say current RM is the most efficient attacking team and Lucho's 2015 Barca is second during the last 10 years. We scrapped our way through the Chelsea game in 2009 and Messi had to dribble the entire team of RM in 2011. Ferguson was so stupid and arrogant that he tried to regain possession from the midfield of Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Busquets by benching their best midfielder Scholes.

 

[Joan]

Last season after 31 round:

Barca xGA 23,85
Atleti xGA 27,24

Did we have, in your opinion MessiCam, better defence than Atleti last season?

This season:

Barca xGA 26,40
Atleti xGA 29,73

What about this one? Was our defence better last season?

 

[Horatio]

Goalkeepers dude. It’s little wonder that we’ve conceded so few because MatS has been in God mode.

It's not just Mats, our defense is pretty solid. Teams have very few shots on target against us.

 

[Joan]

It's not just Mats, our defense is pretty solid. Teams have very few shots on target against us.

[MENTION=17987]LeeRomeno[/MENTION] had that great analysis somewhere. Don't know where it was. I remember he concluded we faced more shots but those were poorer ones and from distance.
Don't know if he's updated it.

I know you talk about shots on target but I can't recall that part.

 

[MessiCam]

Who do you think has the best defence in europe?

What is the criteria you use?

For me it’s a toss up between City and Bayern. All give away very little scoring opportunities and have solid keepers as well.

My criteria for a good defence is what happens before the potential situation becomes dangerous. How quickly the opposition are shut down and how quickly the ball is won back. But I’m romantic about this and have been for about 30 years. Barça do it differently under Valverde in that they prioritise defensive shape over counter pressing and converting it into an attacking opportunity high up.

I don’t consider teams that make a lot of blocks etc to be sound defensively because relying on bodies that far back means something has broken down further up.

[MENTION=17987]LeeRomeno[/MENTION] had that great analysis somewhere. Don't know where it was. I remember he concluded we faced more shots but those were poorer ones and from distance.
Don't know if he's updated it.

I know you talk about shots on target but I can't recall that part.

MaTS is facing and saving more shots from inside the area this year... Some 3 per game vs 2.7 last year. But yeah, shots from distance have been poorer this year in that less saves from distance needed to be made.

The problem is giving up more dangerous shots and MaTS having to make more saves from them.

 

[serghei]

Yeah, it was apparant with Inter's Mou and even RM in Liga,CDR and even in CL SF before the red card

Yea, they did, but they still failed to create chances. Inter didn't block us from creating chances. We create fewer, sure, a lot fewer than normally, but missed them. A more clinical player with those chances (other than Bojan), and the whole operation of Inter collapses. Pep did a huge mistake with Eto'o also that year.

Teams had that Barca on the ropes at times, especially top defensive teams (Mourinho basically), but we always created more chances in every game. It's just that we missed them.

It is not only about blocking Messi.
It is because we played a one dimensional possession style football, like Pep.

One dimensional, possession style based teams with funky defenses are not the way to go in 2018'.
Nor in the future, of course.

Yea, I agree with this mostly. It's very hard, close to impossible to create a team like the one in 2011, operating at such an amazing level of technicality that physicality wasn't as needed. We needed several all time great players other than Messi.

However, we don't need many workhorses. 1 or 2 stronger players (1CB and 1CM) is all it takes to build a more fierce team. And also, its possible for hard working physical players to be good enough technically. For example, Casemiro's technique is pretty underrated. Yaya was pretty technical and strong. Keita wasn't half bad technically.

I don’t consider teams that make a lot of blocks etc to be sound defensively because relying on bodies that far back means something has broken down further up.

This is a rather controversial bit.

 

[JamDav1982]

For me it’s a toss up between City and Bayern. All give away very little scoring opportunities and have solid keepers as well.

My criteria for a good defence is what happens before the potential situation becomes dangerous. How quickly the opposition are shut down and how quickly the ball is won back. But I’m romantic about this and have been for about 30 years. Barça do it differently under Valverde in that they prioritise defensive shape over counter pressing and converting it into an attacking opportunity high up.

I don’t consider teams that make a lot of blocks etc to be sound defensively because relying on bodies that far back means something has broken down further up.

Why City and Bayern?

No stats involved just opinion?

Against the second and third placed teams in EPL City have conceded 11 goals in 5 games and that includes a game they faced ten men for most part.

 

[Stoichkov1]

For me it’s a toss up between City and Bayern. All give away very little scoring opportunities and have solid keepers as well.

My criteria for a good defence is what happens before the potential situation becomes dangerous. How quickly the opposition are shut down and how quickly the ball is won back. But I’m romantic about this and have been for about 30 years. Barça do it differently under Valverde in that they prioritise defensive shape over counter pressing and converting it into an attacking opportunity high up.

I don’t consider teams that make a lot of blocks etc to be sound defensively because relying on bodies that far back means something has broken down further up.

In 2013-14, 2014-15 2015-16 and 2016-17 Bayern had one of the lowest xGA and they conceded 5 goals in 2 matches against Real, 5 in 2 matches against Barca 2 in 2 matches against Atletico and 6 in 2 matches against Real.

 

[Joan]

Nonsense. Barce does counterpress as soon as they lose the ball, that's been really good this season. Not all the time as we are now more comfortable than before behind the ball.

Just an example:

Barca counter-pressing before just before the first goal. Tons of examples like this one.

e: or this one, deep in their half:


Again, tons of examples like this one.

 

[JamDav1982]

MaTS is facing and saving more shots from inside the area this year... Some 3 per game vs 2.7 last year. But yeah, shots from distance have been poorer this year in that less saves from distance needed to be made.

The problem is giving up more dangerous shots and MaTS having to make more saves from them.

That doesnt mean the defence was stronger last year.

It is more about quality of chances and giving keeper a chance to save them.

 

[Stoichkov1]

Nonsense. Barce does counterpress as soon as they lose the ball, that's been really good this season. Not all the time as we are now more comfortable than before behind the ball.

Just an example:
View attachment 7771
Barca counter-pressing before just before the first goal. Tons of examples like this one.

To be fair we pressed like that becuase 1)We needed to score 2)We were facing Roma.

Against Real at the Bernabeu for example we didn't press at all, we had 8 players behind the ball with Messi and Suarez upfront.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Shitty best defensive side in Europe 7 goals in two matches against a potent attack . They will get wrecked if they face Rm a team against our defenders like Verma and Pique defended like a wall

 

[JamDav1982]

Where are the Ter Stegen saves per game from?

 

[Cruyff-Total Football]

MaTS is facing and saving more shots from inside the area this year... Some 3 per game vs 2.7 last year. But yeah, shots from distance have been poorer this year in that less saves from distance needed to be made.

The problem is giving up more dangerous shots and MaTS having to make more saves from them.

You might be surprised to realize that of all the teams in CL right now, Juventus, City and RM has the most horrendous defense. In my opinion Juventus has the worst defense. It's not about defenders. It's about organizations and the defenders ability to predict the tactic of opponent. That's why I always say Pique is the best defender in the world even if Umtiti has millions of last second tackles.

 

[JamDav1982]

Who scored and squaka both seem to have Mats making less saves, facing less shots and facing less shots inside area. In comparison to last season.