Frenkie de Jong

[khaled_a_d]

And just for the record people, I've some bad news for you:

-We don't have the financial power to overbid PSG or City, even in some cases other normal clubs like Juve/RM if they are hell bent on a certain player.

-We don't have the money from last transfer market, I don't know where is this myth came from. The board said before they are ready to borrow money from future transfer markets and they have done that in Cou/Dembele deals.
Coutinho cost 120+40M, Dembele 105M+42, Semedo 30+20 (5 for every 50 games) , Mina 12M, Deulofeu 12M, Marlon 5M, Paulinho 40M =324M +102M add ons. Let's say we pay just half of variables we are talking 375M
Income Neymar 222M , Mascherano and Tello: 10M = 223M
Difference is 152, take 60 from original transfer budget, we are talking 90M. That means last season we have borrowed the entire transfer budget of last summer and half of the next.
If the board is actually sticking to the 60M figure, we are tightening the belt next summer too

-So yeah, we fucked up with Coutinho & Dembele deals financially, and we are paying the price now. So enjoy Rabiot and realize beggars can't be choosers

 

[Alik]

And just for the record people, I've some bad news for you:

-We don't have the financial power to overbid PSG or City, even in some cases other normal clubs like Juve/RM if they are hell bent on a certain player.

-We don't have the money from last transfer market, I don't know where is this myth came from. The board said before they are ready to borrow money from future transfer markets and they have done that in Cou/Dembele deals.
Coutinho cost 120+40M, Dembele 105M+42, Semedo 30+20 (5 for every 50 games) , Mina 12M, Deulofeu 12M, Marlon 5M, Paulinho 40M =324M +102M add ons. Let's say we pay just half of variables we are talking 375M
Income Neymar 222M , Mascherano and Tello: 10M = 223M
Difference is 152, take 60 from original transfer budget, we are talking 90M. That means last season we have borrowed the entire transfer budget of last summer and half of the next.
If the board is actually sticking to the 60M figure, we are tightening the belt next summer too

-So yeah, we fucked up with Coutinho & Dembele deals financially, and we are paying the price now. So enjoy Rabiot and realize beggars can't be choosers

I've got some good news for you.

You forgot Paco (£22.7m), Digne (£20m) and most likely Gomes (£30-40m)

Plus future potential sales: Denis, Rafinha, maybe Malcom, maybe Rakitic(?)

 

[khaled_a_d]

I've got some good news for you.

You forgot Paco (£22.7m), Digne (£20m) and most likely Gomes (£30-40m)

Plus future potential sales: Denis, Rafinha, maybe Malcom, maybe Rakitic(?)

No, I didn't forgot them at all. All those deals happened last summer, whom many fans keep start calculations from.
Last summer we had balanced sales for sure, but people tend to forget the deals before it and keep thinking we have the money for expensive deals.
Talking about posts like this which has been pretty popular in the forum

http://www.barcaforum.com/showthrea...s-and-Rumors?p=1999432&viewfull=1#post1999432

 

[Alik]

No, I didn't forgot them at all. All those deals happened last summer, whom many fans keep start calculations from.
Last summer we had balanced sales for sure, but people tend to forget the deals before it and keep thinking we have the money for expensive deals.
Talking about posts like this which has been pretty popular in the forum

http://www.barcaforum.com/showthrea...s-and-Rumors?p=1999432&viewfull=1#post1999432

Okay, wait. Going by transfermkt figures:

2017/2018 - Arrivales (349,37) - Departures (232,50) = Balance (-116.87M). Balance (-118.87) + Budget(60M) = Negative 58.87M
2018/2019 - Arrivals (127,10M)- Departures (83M) = Balance (-44M.10). Balance + Budget (60M) = Positive 16.10M.

2017/2018 + 2018/2019 = -58.87M + 16.10M = -42.77M

These figures do not take into account the Paco sale, the probable Gomes sale.

So -42.77M + 21M (Paco) + 40M (Gomes) = Positive 18.23M

So we are in a positive balance. We have not borrowed from next season's transfer budget, we actually are contributing to it. This also assumes that the transfer budget is stagnant each is season, which is not likely true. Each year the budget grows.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Okay, wait. Going by transfermkt figures:

2017/2018 - Arrivales (349,37) - Departures (232,50) = Balance (-116.87M). Balance (-118.87) + Budget(60M) = Negative 58.87M
2018/2019 - Arrivals (127,10M)- Departures (83M) = Balance (-44M.10). Balance + Budget (60M) = Positive 16.10M.

2017/2018 + 2018/2019 = -58.87M + 16.10M = -42.77M

These figures do not take into account the Paco sale, the probable Gomes sale.

So -42.77M + 21M (Paco) + 40M (Gomes) = Positive 18.23M

So we are in a positive balance. We have not borrowed from next season's transfer budget, we actually are contributing to it. This also assumes that the transfer budget is stagnant each is season, which is not likely true. Each year the budget grows.

We don't have Gomes money yet, so even if you are doing calculations right we aren't starting it positively. Hell we didn't even get the Paulinho deal official yet (is it in the calculations btw)?
Transfermarket numbers are usually a bit rigid, especially when it comes to add-ons.

And even then,however you calculate it, point still stand the same, the board isn't going to start calculation from 2018 summer, we won't have 200M to put on MDL+FDJ+ other transfers.
Unless we decide to "borrow" from future transfers again, and then inevitably miss on another future start that will rise in next years etc.

 

[Riordon]

This deal will destroy the market. Now Lyon apparently wants 80m for Ndombele

 

[Alik]

We don't have Gomes money yet, so even if you are doing calculations right we aren't starting it positively. Hell we didn't even get the Paulinho deal official yet (is it in the calculations btw)?
Transfermarket numbers are usually a bit rigid, especially when it comes to add-ons.

And even then,however you calculate it, point still stand the same, the board isn't going to start calculation from 2018 summer, we won't have 200M to put on MDL+FDJ+ other transfers.
Unless we decide to "borrow" from future transfers again, and then inevitably miss on another future start that will rise in next years etc.

Yeah, the Paulinho deal is factored in (40M) in the transfermkt figures.
Regarding the add-ons yeah, Transfermkt figures are slightly more conservative than yours. So I could see the balance being closer to 0 than 18M. Although, I imagine the transfer budget should be much higher than 60M. 60M is peanuts these days.

Agreed. We have enough money to sign one of De Jong and De Light, but not both, without offloading another player like Rakitic or Malcom.

 

[Messi983]

This deal will destroy the market. Now Lyon apparently wants 80m for Ndombele

Market is destroyed since Neymar. 80M today is what 40-50M were 18 months ago. This is a new reality (whether we like that or not) and clubs have adapted. Hell, even we managed to sell Mina for 30M and Digne for 20M which wouldn't happen two years ago.

Unless we'll target players with buyout clauses (but those are obligatory only in La Liga and people here are generally against buying players from Primera) or expiring contracts we'll have to overpay for almost every player. We were mostly doing the same (though we did make some great deals like MATS, Umtiti, Raki,...) so far but now even known selling clubs like Lyon (who sold us Umtiti for his fair market price) are demanding double of their market value for players like Ndombele. Our good relationship with Lyon doesn't matter much here as well (though it's obviously better being on their good side) because Aulas is looking for the best financial interest for his club. If they won't get 80M from Barça they'll probably get them from another interested club. If they won't then they can decide to possibly lower the price or just keep the player who is still under contract for 4 more years (that's why negotiating power is clearly on Lyon's side). It's a win-win situation for them as long as Ndombele doesn't suffer a longterm injury that would probably reduce interest in him and consequently also his value.

That said, I think Lyon could eventually agree for a transfer fee around 60-70M in the summer but setting initial price on 80M is totally normal in todays market.

 

[Sorin]

And we should trust them for some reason? We have made offers past summer, right now we don't really need to make an offer if we know it is way below what PSG is offering.
You are overreacting here



So now Catalan media are reliable?



A no name kid who has as many clubs trying to sign him as FDJ. And there is no evidence he is the only one we are trying to get



QFTT



No, not to Ajax. And that is the reason they were never selling him last summer.
People act like Ajax management are fools or something, they know what you know about the market and a lot more. They are financially stable and can afford a little risk of refusing decent offers for hope of huge offers in the future.
They are tough negotiators, and have not won anything for 4 years which is a disaster.
Why would Overmars accept an offer of 40M that will look bad in a year and would decrease his chances on winning league? Do you think he wants to get fired or something?

I'm convinced now, either you are Bartomeu or Segura or you are on their payroll. A shill of you want. There's no other explanantion for you trying to justify absolutely every and I mean every decision this board makes, even bad ones. You could probably put a positive spin on the buyings of Arda and Vidal back in 2015.

After this post you come and justify our failings by blaming City and PSG having stupid money. Maybe it's true for PSG but City's largest transfer is fucking Mahrez for about 65m give or take. We shit that kind of money for breakfast and maybe if we didn't screw over again and again, throwing money on guys like Arda, Vidal, Gomes, Paco, Deulofeu, Denis we could have something left to buy players that fit us and can actually contribute. Or paying 20m a year for a squad player just because he ll come for free. Every 3m player earns 6 or 7 at Barcelona. That's also one of the reasons we cannot compete with City and PSG. De Bruyne is making 20m a year gross but we plan on making making Rabiot earn just as much ffs. Now compare their values and tell me City have screwed the market.

Don't reply because I already know your response. Every shill is the same.

 

[George_Costanza]

Some of you forgot that we already tried to sign De Jong last summer. We also spent a huge amount of money on Coutinho and Dembele. We can't keep spending like crazy forever. Sorry to be a pary braker but Rabiot for free or De Jong for 75 mil with similar salaries is no brainer at all. To be fair I would like to have both of them and De Ligt but paying 150 mil for 19y old De Ligt and 21 old De Jong is probably impossible for us at the moment.

Money for Dembele and Coutinho all came from Neymar's BO 220m. I don't think we tried that hard to be frank.

We have a sporting director who is biased toward French players hence going after an average player like Rabiot when the player has so many personal issues and pissed off his own club. We are in it for the revenge mostly.

I said it before we are choosing Rabiot over FDJ. You piss off PSG and they will go after your main target(s). Just like when we tried to sign Verratti who try to pull a trick on his own club, PSG answered by buying Neymar.

You can't outbid clubs like PSG backed by the Emir himself, but you can outsmart them which we didn't.

It's like Ali going against almighty George Foreman. Ali won't last two rounds if he went gung-ho for the KO. Ali played the best game of chess in the history of the ring and employed rope-a-dope tactics.

We are playing it more like Smokin Joe Frazier rather than Ali.

 

[BBZ8800]

Because you then have to pay through the nose for the same players one year later. That's what good scouters are being paid a butt load for. To spot this kind of players on the verge of blowing off, before everyone and their mothers comes in starts throwing this kind of money for them. I mean Callum Hudson Odoi is reported to go for between 33 and 40m euros at Bayern and the guy is even more unproven. Martial went for an initial fee of 45m euros rising to 70m when he had half a year of Ligue 1 games under his belt.

I mean, 40m for De Jong last summer seems like a good deal now right? The lack of foresight is the one thing that is crippling us, not other teams throwing money around.

Anyway, like I said, I wouldn't even be bothered with this situation if we had someone like N'Dombele lined up but I'm willing to bet my house on us singing Rabiot and calling it a day while still playing Busi and Raki 60 games/year.

It is easy to be smart in hindsight when a player turns good.

We did what you suggested with Malcom. Bought a player for a cheap before he "exploded".
Today we don't know whether he don't play because:
1. EV is stupid
2. or because Malcom in an utter shit and we made a mistake with buying semi-proven potentials for quite a lot of money

Or, Real Madrid did what you suggest with Vinicius.
A world class move.

It is easy to be smart in hindsight and say: we should have bought him 1-2 years ago.
On every Frenkie who could have been bought earlier, you will get 5 or 10 players like Malcom or Vinicius.

As always, try to name a few players who are cheap today, and whom should we buy today.
And let's see how will they develop in 2-3 years.

You'll always see how poor a success rate is with these players.

Btw. Ajax knew that they have 2 gems and they didn't want to sell for cheap even in the last summer.
They are not idiots.
They waited, gambled and waited for their prices to explode, like they did.
Even if we'll offer 75, as others said, Psg will offer 100.
What then?

Nobody could have bought Frenkie or De Light EVER for 25M.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Some bs and personal attacks after failing to actually respond

City biggest deals were 75M (in Euros), that is true. But other than our deals that was done by Neymar money we are paying the same amount of range in our deals.
And I am not sure how I am defending board when I actually call them for money paid in 2017?
And City pays more than us in many deals, their spending power is a fact, same for PSG who holds the 2 record signing in history of football.

And all of that doesn't change the fact that Ajax aren't stupid, and they know the market better than you and me, and the whole hypothesis that we lost on FDJ last summer because we didn't offer 40M is simply false and has zero basis.

 

[Luftstalag14]

And just for the record people, I've some bad news for you:

-We don't have the financial power to overbid PSG or City, even in some cases other normal clubs like Juve/RM if they are hell bent on a certain player.

-We don't have the money from last transfer market, I don't know where is this myth came from. The board said before they are ready to borrow money from future transfer markets and they have done that in Cou/Dembele deals.
Coutinho cost 120+40M, Dembele 105M+42, Semedo 30+20 (5 for every 50 games) , Mina 12M, Deulofeu 12M, Marlon 5M, Paulinho 40M =324M +102M add ons. Let's say we pay just half of variables we are talking 375M
Income Neymar 222M , Mascherano and Tello: 10M = 223M
Difference is 152, take 60 from original transfer budget, we are talking 90M. That means last season we have borrowed the entire transfer budget of last summer and half of the next.
If the board is actually sticking to the 60M figure, we are tightening the belt next summer too

-So yeah, we fucked up with Coutinho & Dembele deals financially, and we are paying the price now. So enjoy Rabiot and realize beggars can't be choosers

So essentially what you are saying is that we have no money left whatsoever to compete with any of the elite clubs and we'd better settle with our fate of signing second and third tier players from now on? OK, perhaps we will soon have to face the new reality that we are EL bound. And when Messi leaves the whole thing will collapse.

 

[Devils]

1) We don't know what the budget or the breakdown of the budget is for transfers this year. It's safe to assume we want to purchase a striker, a CB and may possibly need to purchase a LB and GK (incase Jasper leaves). If you are upset because Barca don't want to outbid PSG and sign this shiny new toy for 90m or so and then address the other areas in need accumulating transfer costs into the 150-200m or more, then it's a hopeless cause.

2) Speaking of budgeting, no European club not backed by oil money (United, Madrid, Bayern, Liverpool etc...) spend that much money on players every year. Maybe once in awhile, but definitely not every year. Barcelona already did last year (while making some good selling too) and surely aren't going to do it again this year.

3) The negative insults against Abidal are pathetic. Under Abidal we signed we've only Arthur, Lenglet, Vidal and Malcolm. When you consider the cost and sporting value of these signings, they have mostly been nothing short of excellent business.

 

[Gnidrologist]

So, this is semi official now? Great. We've relieved our worst enemy of their stinkin' refuse player and allow them to snatch one of the future's best mids, who was ready to lay in front of us like a horny fiancee already in wedding dress.
Such a pain to think of alternative history of Barca if those retards never took over the management in 2010.:/