Gnidrologist
Senior Member
The good ol' conversations are back, aye.
Frenkie de Jong
- Thread starter DonAK
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Blanco
Active member
Busquets is the best Barca midfielder in absolutely every season he has played for Barca. I have been repeating this for years and this season was the proof, Barca was half the team without him.
In 22/23 Rodri, the current candidate for Ballon Dor was playing CB for Spain, because no coach itw would think of replacing even 34 yo Busquets.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
No he absolutely was not...not even close.
FDJ was clear that Messi season and the title win.
This season is proof of what? Barca miss Busi?
Barca had Gavi, FDJ, Pedri, MATS, Balde all missing for spells. Lost Dembele yet finished what 3 points worse off than season before.
Also playing away from Nou Camp...which plays a part.
FDJ was far better than Busquets that title season v Real Madrid and one game he missed that season v them Busi was completely over run as Real had biggest win in decades away to Barca.
Same was claimed about Spain when folk pointed out how much Busi slowed them down..'wait till you see what its like when he is gone'.
Barca also win a European KO tie without Busi for first time in years and were on course v PSG before Araujos brainfart.
Playing Rodri at CB while Busquets looked off pace in WC was nothing but sheer stupidity and type of decision that seen them defeated and out to Morocco.
Busi leaves... and they win the Euros with Rodri one of top players.
Bizarre argument to use in favour of Busquets that one.
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Birdy
Senior Member
Yup, and for that reason also he cannot play any pivot position that requires quick release of the ball
Thing is: Can we ALL agree that if he fails to impress EVEN UNDER Flick, then he is a certified flop for Barca ??
(given ludicrous wages and his insistence to stay as well)
It is his very very last chance.
His contract runs until 26, I think he goes next summer already if he fails this season in a new system
companyofcules
Well-known member
We should sell FDJ to Real if we think Gavi is better.
They have the money, they lost a mid, they can pay a decent trasfer fee.
We should be hapy to give them such a dead weight.
This forum is big enough, I guess we can get this opinion heard with some bot type promotion.
Let's put our money where our mouth is.
They have the money, they lost a mid, they can pay a decent trasfer fee.
We should be hapy to give them such a dead weight.
This forum is big enough, I guess we can get this opinion heard with some bot type promotion.
Let's put our money where our mouth is.
companyofcules
Well-known member
Stop joking around, yes Busquets was very talented, he could get the ball, but that is only 60% percent of a midfielder job. The rest is to bully the area, to reach first at the ball, to bring body mass. You will not see any bodyguard having 1.6 m and 50 kg, can't run? jump. Combine him with Roberto and Alba, Pique and you get why FDJ was "anyways", I am here for a vacation, this club is a circus.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Youtubed 'Frenkie vs' and this is first game that came up from last season.
Not one he would have been held up for I bet.. but anyone watching this type of game and cant see how he is one of the quickest movers of the ball forward the majority of time doesnt have a clue.
The likes of Gavi on the ball is more similar to Puig was really.. passes it 'quickly' to first man sees open with very little range or creativity.
The difference between the two on ball in past couple seasons is stark.
The stats back it up also.
Not one he would have been held up for I bet.. but anyone watching this type of game and cant see how he is one of the quickest movers of the ball forward the majority of time doesnt have a clue.
The likes of Gavi on the ball is more similar to Puig was really.. passes it 'quickly' to first man sees open with very little range or creativity.
The difference between the two on ball in past couple seasons is stark.
The stats back it up also.
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Birdy
Senior Member
No ones argues that FDJ is not better on the ball than Gavi, but that's really irrelevant
Gavi's qualities are not on the ball, everybody knows that. It's his intensity in pressing, his aggression, his steals, his endless running. Aspects of the game where he is miles ahead of ghosty Frenkie
Meanwhile, Pedri and Gundo are 20 times better on the ball than Frenkie in all aspects of offensive game.
So FDJ is not the best offensive md we have, not the best defensive md we have.
And he is YET (after 5 whole seasons) to find a version of himself that warrants the hype, the transfer, the wages, and all that
This season is make or break for him. There won't be another chance
Gavi's qualities are not on the ball, everybody knows that. It's his intensity in pressing, his aggression, his steals, his endless running. Aspects of the game where he is miles ahead of ghosty Frenkie
Meanwhile, Pedri and Gundo are 20 times better on the ball than Frenkie in all aspects of offensive game.
So FDJ is not the best offensive md we have, not the best defensive md we have.
And he is YET (after 5 whole seasons) to find a version of himself that warrants the hype, the transfer, the wages, and all that
This season is make or break for him. There won't be another chance
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Fake news.
FDJ was third in the team for balls won back last season after Gavi and Cancelo.
Gavi was fouling twice as much and was dribbled past x3 as much.
Gavi careers about crashing into anything that moves and doesnt make him the defensive class player made out.]
FDJ covers ground far better than Gavi. Far more athletic.
FDJ is not just better on ball than Gavi... he is levels above.. Gavi is closer in his passing to likes of Puig than FDJ, Gundo and Pedri.
On the defensive side of it FDJ won the ball back more than Gavi the 'pressing machine' when won the league and by a good bit.. Gavi was still dribbled past more though..
FDJ is far and away the best defensive mid Barca have. Whether that is in a one or a two and he was levels better than likes of Gavi ever has been at CM when played there.
Reminder of Last Season where... 'FDJ cant pass ball forwards' vs 'Gavi the complete modern day midfielder' or some similar nonsense..
FDJ
Number of Passes: 1st
Progressive Passes: 1st
Passes into Final Third: 1st
Key Passes: 8th
Expected Assists: 4th
Through Balls: 2nd
Involvement in chances created: 4th
Involvement in moves resulting in a goal: 2nd
Range/Long Passes: 8th
Gavi
Number of Passes: 11th
Progressive Passes: 17th
Passes into Final Third: 13th
Key Passes: 11h
Expected Assists: 9th
Through Balls: 8th
Involvement in chances created: 10th
Involvement in moves resulting in a goal: 10th
Range/Long Passes: 15th
FDJ was third in the team for balls won back last season after Gavi and Cancelo.
Gavi was fouling twice as much and was dribbled past x3 as much.
Gavi careers about crashing into anything that moves and doesnt make him the defensive class player made out.]
FDJ covers ground far better than Gavi. Far more athletic.
FDJ is not just better on ball than Gavi... he is levels above.. Gavi is closer in his passing to likes of Puig than FDJ, Gundo and Pedri.
On the defensive side of it FDJ won the ball back more than Gavi the 'pressing machine' when won the league and by a good bit.. Gavi was still dribbled past more though..
FDJ is far and away the best defensive mid Barca have. Whether that is in a one or a two and he was levels better than likes of Gavi ever has been at CM when played there.
Reminder of Last Season where... 'FDJ cant pass ball forwards' vs 'Gavi the complete modern day midfielder' or some similar nonsense..
FDJ
Number of Passes: 1st
Progressive Passes: 1st
Passes into Final Third: 1st
Key Passes: 8th
Expected Assists: 4th
Through Balls: 2nd
Involvement in chances created: 4th
Involvement in moves resulting in a goal: 2nd
Range/Long Passes: 8th
Gavi
Number of Passes: 11th
Progressive Passes: 17th
Passes into Final Third: 13th
Key Passes: 11h
Expected Assists: 9th
Through Balls: 8th
Involvement in chances created: 10th
Involvement in moves resulting in a goal: 10th
Range/Long Passes: 15th
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
Have you seen the highlight reel of Frenkie's "defending" last season?Too lazy to search for it, but it's hilarious.
Gavi will be a legend of the club (if he recovers well), Frenkie, eh, not... the club would sell him in an instant if they could.
Been discussed.. same highlights reels seen for Rodri and Real fans saying he should not be balondor.
Seen similar for prime Busi let alone FDJ and others.
Can be made about any player.
Those videos show players dribbling past FDJ.. guess who got dribbled past x3 as much last season?
Gavster.
Wait until he comes back and still at that terrible level on the ball doing next to nothing and chasing anything that moves.. will soon be 'not same since injury'.
These stats are frankly embarrassing for any 'top midfielder'.
Gavi
Number of Passes: 11th
Progressive Passes: 17th
Passes into Final Third: 13th
Key Passes: 11h
Expected Assists: 9th
Through Balls: 8th
Involvement in chances created: 10th
Involvement in moves resulting in a goal: 10th
Range/Long Passes: 15th
jamrock
Senior Member
When one has to dig up a bunch of stats, to justify a stupid WC Player,Best CM in the world, Rolls royse player, all words used to describe de jong by his fans
Then that says it all doesn't it.
When the chips are down, he fails the eye test, time and time again.
If we are in a high pressure situation, the last Midfielder the Barca fans want to see de jong, the first is probably Gavi, that's the difference, no about of stats can make up for or change that
But he has one final season, the sixth one to finally come good, but no matter what happens, he'll always have that season when Messi was here and that came in Napoli
Then that says it all doesn't it.
When the chips are down, he fails the eye test, time and time again.
If we are in a high pressure situation, the last Midfielder the Barca fans want to see de jong, the first is probably Gavi, that's the difference, no about of stats can make up for or change that
But he has one final season, the sixth one to finally come good, but no matter what happens, he'll always have that season when Messi was here and that came in Napoli
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Haha 'dig up a bunch of stats'.
Can tell dont like the evidence of how much better one is than the other on the ball.
'When the chips are down'.. he has had far more big moments to win games than Gavi from deeper and more involved with winning goals.
Was levels above Gavi in games v Real under Xavi.
Same shite that got claimed about Spain and how much they would miss him.
Barca won every game bar 1 that league title season that Gavu didnt start.. their win % actually went up when he didnt.
League title win season.. down to 10 men v Osasuna who produces pass of season to win it in dying minutes? Not Gavi. Just one example.
Who was best player on park by far when Barca win the league v Real 2-1 to all but seal it? FDJ
FDJ has been levels above Gavi 'when chips are down'
Gavi fucking gets made out to be world class for half a decent game v Real then vanishing and being poor in their goals.
Levels.
Gavi is beyond average on the ball and not the defensive powerhouse some like to make out.
Where are these 'Gavi when the chips are down' moments?
This is another mythical claim that cant be backed up by evidence or moments... quite the calling card for the Gavi fan boys.
Can tell dont like the evidence of how much better one is than the other on the ball.
'When the chips are down'.. he has had far more big moments to win games than Gavi from deeper and more involved with winning goals.
Was levels above Gavi in games v Real under Xavi.
Same shite that got claimed about Spain and how much they would miss him.
Barca won every game bar 1 that league title season that Gavu didnt start.. their win % actually went up when he didnt.
League title win season.. down to 10 men v Osasuna who produces pass of season to win it in dying minutes? Not Gavi. Just one example.
Who was best player on park by far when Barca win the league v Real 2-1 to all but seal it? FDJ
FDJ has been levels above Gavi 'when chips are down'
Gavi fucking gets made out to be world class for half a decent game v Real then vanishing and being poor in their goals.
Levels.
Gavi is beyond average on the ball and not the defensive powerhouse some like to make out.
Where are these 'Gavi when the chips are down' moments?
This is another mythical claim that cant be backed up by evidence or moments... quite the calling card for the Gavi fan boys.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Name the Player.. Name the Game...Clues in the stats who it isnt.
1st Completed most passes - 79
Pass Accuracy - 91% - highest of any Barca midfielder.
2nd most progressive passes on pitch of any midfielder.
1st progressive passing yds on pitch of any midfielder.. more than Kroos and Modric combined.
2nd most passes into the final third
2nd for expected assists.
1st chances created at 5 - more than double anyone else on the pitch.
1st for balls won back with 5 tackles/interceptions.
1st equal for dribbles made
2nd for yds carried forward.
Bet he wishes he was more like the 'complete' midfielder Gavi!
Said for many times now... know those who are paid a lot of money to analze players and what they think of FDJ/Gavi.
Will die on the hill with them rather than folk who try to ignore the stats staring them in face and just repeat about how complete Gavi is and his 'balls'!
1st Completed most passes - 79
Pass Accuracy - 91% - highest of any Barca midfielder.
2nd most progressive passes on pitch of any midfielder.
1st progressive passing yds on pitch of any midfielder.. more than Kroos and Modric combined.
2nd most passes into the final third
2nd for expected assists.
1st chances created at 5 - more than double anyone else on the pitch.
1st for balls won back with 5 tackles/interceptions.
1st equal for dribbles made
2nd for yds carried forward.
Bet he wishes he was more like the 'complete' midfielder Gavi!
Said for many times now... know those who are paid a lot of money to analze players and what they think of FDJ/Gavi.
Will die on the hill with them rather than folk who try to ignore the stats staring them in face and just repeat about how complete Gavi is and his 'balls'!
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