Frenkie de Jong

[Joan]

We tried to replace him with Willian, but unfortunately failed this summer.

 

[Arizona Scott]

This is the Rakitic thread ... check back a few pages and see if you can find ANYONE who rates or even wants him in the team
http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread.php/11662-4-Ivan-Rakiti%C4%87/page563


I'd guess you are in the minority fan worshipping Rakitic to be honest .

Oh I have seen the rakitic thread.

Not just him, but suarez and pique are the chronically underated players by the masses here. Just see how a removed person (newcomer, fan of psg) rates these guys.

I do have a problem of EVs overuse of him, but I also have a problem with his overuse of suarez, busi, pique, alba, vidal--because if any are burned out or injured the hit to the team come april when we really need them will be drastic. Even maybe messi should be conserved a little but this is even harder.

 

[BBZ8800]

everyone except you considers the 2009 and/or 2011 Barca teams to be in the top 5 club teams ever assembled.

Cool.

You didn't get my reply at all.

Regardless of whether I rate Barca 2009-2011 as the best team in the world or not, the point was:
We were winning everything back then, and the board estimated that there is no better players than our current guys, so the best option is to lock them with rich contracts and we'll try to rule the world for the next 10 years.
In 2011, Messi, Busi and Pique were 24, so it seemed that they will be winning CLs for the next 8-10 years easily.

If we wouldn't have won CLs in 2009 and 2011, younger guys like Busi and Pique would never get insane wages.
So, "broken" wage bill is a consequence of "too much" success, even though this sounds as a paradox.

I will pull an analogy.
If Dembele and Coutinho are earning 13M now.
Imagine if we'll win 2 CLs in a row now with those two as core players.
And now, PSG will offer 200M for each of them and wages 20M NET.
Then, to scare off Psg, and to keep those winning guys here, after two CLs, we will need to give them new contracts worth, let's say 20 or 22M NET.

Board and fans will think:
This was the only way to keep Cou and Dembele here.
We will keep them and we will keep winning for the next 5 years.

But then, if Dembele and Cou got 20M NET, other starters will also ask for better wages.
Guys like Roberto, Semedo, Mats, Lenglet, Umtiti, Arthur, Rabiot, all younger guys.
And then, in order to NOT to lose a team who won 2 CLs in a row, these guys will get higher wages, and will jump from 5M Net to 10, 13 or 15M Net per year.
Again, that was the only way to keep them here and to keep them happy.

But then, even squad players like Rafinha and whoever will be here, will also ask new wages, and a raise from 2-3M to 5M.
Fine, we'll do that also.

But then, you have another problem: we have just won 2 CLs, and Messi and Suarez are too old and are leaving.
And we are buying 2 new superstars.
And now, imagine that we are buying Sane, Mbappe, Firmino or Son.
And now, since they are coming to Barca, CL winner, and since Dembele and Coutinho already have wages 20-22M Net, and guys like Roberto have 10-12 (they also asked a raise after Cou and Dembouz)...
What do you think, will Firmino ask for only 10M Net (in that scenario) or will he ask THE SAME or even HIGHER wages than current superstars Dembele and Cou?
Imo, Firmino or new signings would ask 20-25M Net then.
And then, you have a new domino effect: if you gave 25M Net to Firmino to lure him here, now Dembele and Cou, our key players will ask 25M and not "only" 20M Net.
In order to not lose them and to keep them happy, the board will now give 25M Net to Firmino, Dembele, Cou.
But now, when they have 25M Net, other guys will ask for their raise also: Lenglet, Arthur, Semedo, Umtiti, Mats, Rabiot.
They will now ask 13-15 instead of only 10M etc.
And also, if you'll sign NEW players. Let's say a new CM. Since he knows that you gave 25M to Firmino, Dembele and Cou, a new CM will ask 15-20M Net from the start (the same as Rabiot today).

** This was a scenario?if we'll win 2 CLs in 2019 and 2020, how we would need to raise wages of all players in this domino effect.
Now, imagine if we won't win any CLs in the next 5 years.
That means that Dembele and Coutinho will stay on 13M Net.
They won't be able to ask for better wages.
If those two will stay at 13M Net, then Roberto, Mats and others won't be able to ask for better wages either.
And new signings like Firmino, won't be able to ask for 25M Net, but only 13-15M Net at max.

So, you see how winning a CL or two and not winning a CL can make a huge paradoxal consequences on our team long term.

 

[Jombi]

I mean just look at the wages of Dembele and Coutinho , that doesn't look like a team that will relax when it comes to wages after Messi retires.

Yeah, Coutinho earns as much as Busi and Pique, at the level below Messi, so the idea that our stars will somehow earn less in the future is not realistic at all.

 

[Alik]

Cool.

You didn't get my reply at all.

Regardless of whether I rate Barca 2009-2011 as the best team in the world or not, the point was:
We were winning everything back then, and the board estimated that there is no better players than our current guys, so the best option is to lock them with rich contracts and we'll try to rule the world for the next 10 years.
In 2011, Messi, Busi and Pique were 24, so it seemed that they will be winning CLs for the next 8-10 years easily.

If we wouldn't have won CLs in 2009 and 2011, younger guys like Busi and Pique would never get insane wages.
So, "broken" wage bill is a consequence of "too much" success, even though this sounds as a paradox.

I will pull an analogy.
If Dembele and Coutinho are earning 13M now.
Imagine if we'll win 2 CLs in a row now with those two as core players.
And now, PSG will offer 200M for each of them and wages 20M NET.
Then, to scare off Psg, and to keep those winning guys here, after two CLs, we will need to give them new contracts worth, let's say 20 or 22M NET.

Board and fans will think:
This was the only way to keep Cou and Dembele here.
We will keep them and we will keep winning for the next 5 years.

But then, if Dembele and Cou got 20M NET, other starters will also ask for better wages.
Guys like Roberto, Semedo, Mats, Lenglet, Umtiti, Arthur, Rabiot, all younger guys.
And then, in order to NOT to lose a team who won 2 CLs in a row, these guys will get higher wages, and will jump from 5M Net to 10, 13 or 15M Net per year.
Again, that was the only way to keep them here and to keep them happy.

But then, even squad players like Rafinha and whoever will be here, will also ask new wages, and a raise from 2-3M to 5M.
Fine, we'll do that also.

But then, you have another problem: we have just won 2 CLs, and Messi and Suarez are too old and are leaving.
And we are buying 2 new superstars.
And now, imagine that we are buying Sane, Mbappe, Firmino or Son.
And now, since they are coming to Barca, CL winner, and since Dembele and Coutinho already have wages 20-22M Net, and guys like Roberto have 10-12 (they also asked a raise after Cou and Dembouz)...
What do you think, will Firmino ask for only 10M Net (in that scenario) or will he ask THE SAME or even HIGHER wages than current superstars Dembele and Cou?
Imo, Firmino or new signings would ask 20-25M Net then.
And then, you have a new domino effect: if you gave 25M Net to Firmino to lure him here, now Dembele and Cou, our key players will ask 25M and not "only" 20M Net.
In order to not lose them and to keep them happy, the board will now give 25M Net to Firmino, Dembele, Cou.
But now, when they have 25M Net, other guys will ask for their raise also: Lenglet, Arthur, Semedo, Umtiti, Mats, Rabiot.
They will now ask 13-15 instead of only 10M etc.
And also, if you'll sign NEW players. Let's say a new CM. Since he knows that you gave 25M to Firmino, Dembele and Cou, a new CM will ask 15-20M Net from the start (the same as Rabiot today).

** This was a scenario?if we'll win 2 CLs in 2019 and 2020, how we would need to raise wages of all players in this domino effect.
Now, imagine if we won't win any CLs in the next 5 years.
That means that Dembele and Coutinho will stay on 13M Net.
They won't be able to ask for better wages.
If those two will stay at 13M Net, then Roberto, Mats and others won't be able to ask for better wages either.
And new signings like Firmino, won't be able to ask for 25M Net, but only 13-15M Net at max.

So, you see how winning a CL or two and not winning a CL can make a huge paradoxal consequences on our team long term.

True. But Madrid handled it just fine while winning 4 CLs in the last 6.

 

[Devils]

[tw]1085498151027519489[/tw]

It's over.

-He thinks there is too much competition in midfield at Barca.
-Higher salary at Paris
-He thinks he will be a central player at Paris while not at Barca.

Catalan media is admitting he's gone and the verbal agreement with the player is terminated.

 

[Joan]

Barca fan!

 

[El Barcelona]

Good move on

 

[Zidane82]

[tw]1085498151027519489[/tw]

It's over.

-He thinks there is too much competition in midfield at Barca.
-Higher salary at Paris
-He thinks he will be a central player at Paris while not at Barca.

Catalan media is admitting he's gone and the verbal agreement with the player is terminated.

He's summed it up perfectly ..

Busqs is a given , he'll have seen how well Arthur has fitted in and will know that Rakitic plays every Barca game .. ..

 

[Leo_Messi]

I highly doubt that anything is decided yet and even if it is, albeit it would be a shame, at least if you ask me, there are other options out there and if the player prefers other projects, in particular the "QSG project", I am kind of happy that he will not be playing for the club.

Ndombele could be a great option as written about weeks ago. A magnificent player and talent too that adds more physicality, dynamism and power than De Jong. Given the close relations with Lyon and Aulas, I could very well see such a transfer materializing. If that won't work either, there are other options out there and new talents are emerging each season. Not the end of the world although I would have liked de Jong. That is if the recent rumors about him going to the QSG prison are genuine. If they are, it tells me a lot about his lack of ambition which is quite worrying for a supposedly generational talent.

 

[Devils]

Don't worry guys, in 2024 we will get De Jong on that free trasnfer.

:Rabiot:

let the countdown begin.

 

[BenRobbins]

I will never understand why he would chose PSG. If you don't fancy your chances at Barca or Real, Surely the next clubs you look at are Juventus and City.

I guess Money talks. When are they ever going to do something about this money they are spending

 

[Andresito]

Everything we're reading nowadays has already been reported at least once before.

Everyone should just stop reading all the 'news' regarding Frenkie until there's something official.

 

[Zidane82]

Everything we're reading nowadays has already been reported at least once before.

Everyone should just stop reading all the 'news' regarding Frenkie until there's something official.

Hope you're right I think De Jong could be an amazing player for us ..

 

[Leo_Messi]

well MD is in barto's pockets. they're probably making this BS up to save face. we will never know the true reason why he chose psg until he's asked that question. for now i'll presume our bid was terrible hence ajax will sell to psg

edit- he hasn't even joined yet so we'll see

MD has talked about de Jong being signed and the opposite 3-5 times already. There is no point making any conclusions before his future actually becomes known.