Frenkie de Jong

[mc_lovin]

So now FdJ failing in Koemans 4231 is on Busquets?

Koeman's 4231 failing was on the setup being shit more than anything.

Anyway, the argument we tried Frenkie in every position is a bit moot when we played Busquets in 99% of all games. They both need to be the deepest midfielder, so much is clear.

One thing is painfully obvious though, right now we would be better off if we sold Frenkie and got a worldclass CB.

 

[Raketa10]

As Far as I can understand some people's logic here is that FDJ stinks and we should sell him so we can keep playing that fucking grandpa Busi whose only job is to walk and pass the ball to the first guy next to him? Makes sense! Let's give up on a guy who showed with Ajax that he can excel on the highest level. This kid was used wrong from the beginning. He was brought as a Busi replacement but 2 years after he is playing Rakitic or Iniesta role and coaches expect from him to score goals from the box. Unbelievable things! This club and it's fan base are a fucking joke. Maybe we should try to sign Mbappe so we can play him as a RB...

 

[Sterlingfan2000]

Just fecking sell this fraud already

 

[malvolio]

So As Far as I can understand some people logic here is that FDJ stinks and we should sell him so we can keep playing that fucking grandpa Busi whose only job is to walk and pass the ball to the first guy next to him? Makes sense! Let's give up on a guy who showed with Ajax that he can excel on the highest level. This kid was used wrong from the beginning. He was brought as a Busi replacement but 2 years after he is playing Rakitic or Iniesta role and coaches expect from him to score goals from the box. Unbelievable things! This club and it's fan base are a fucking joke.

3 seasons of nothingness and we still pull up the "but he did it at ajax vs real and juve" argument.

FDJ is not a bum. just a poor fit for us and what we are looking for in a DM. also we overpaid for his transfer fee and we overpay him every month, considering his performances.

it's fair criticism really. better we part ways and get a CB or other DM with the money from his sale.

 

[Porque]

Koeman's 4231 failing was on the setup being shit more than anything.

Anyway, the argument we tried Frenkie in every position is a bit moot when we played Busquets in 99% of all games. They both need to be the deepest midfielder, so much is clear.

One thing is painfully obvious though, right now we would be better off if we sold Frenkie and got a worldclass CB.

You may be right, but think about it. Koeman came in wanting to play his Dutch NT setup and for that reason wanted Depay and Wijnaldum to hold its integration (a bit like how Xavi now wants his former teammates to bleed this team into XaviPepBall2.0).

So Koeman comes in and brings in a system that he has been playing with Frenkie for 2+ years internationally but Frenkie couldn't get the job done. For a short period of time the system looked good (Messi as false 9, Coutinho with post Bayern horsemeat before getting injured, Trincao/Dembele holding width).

Frenkie should have flourished really.

But don't get me wrong, he has had moments of excellence under Koeman and Xavi has to seriously try to get the best out of him and not have him relegated to 5th midfield option with Busquets untouchable in terms of minutes played.

 

[Raketa10]

3 seasons of nothingness and we still pull up the "but he did it at ajax vs real and juve" argument.

FDJ is not a bum. just a poor fit for us and what we are looking for in a DM. also we overpaid for his transfer fee and we overpay him every month, considering his performances.

it's fair criticism really. better we part ways and get a CB or other DM with the money from his sale.

A poor fit? Dude anyone is a poor fit for us because we are dog shit. If we signed Mbappe or Haaland 3 years ago we would have destroyed them. We are a poor fit for every decent player right now and not vice versa.

 

[malvolio]

A poor fit? Dude anyone is a poor fit for us because we are dog shit. If we signed Mbappe or Haaland 3 years ago we would have ruined them.

you're exaggerating. reality is that the last very good players we bought were rakitic and umtiti. both were a good fit for what we wanted to play.

FDJ isn't a veratti, pirlo, busquets, kimmich type of DM we are looking for. just another profile of player.

he likes to make runs from deep with the ball, which doesn't work for the DM playing 433. he also can't control the tempo of a game. and his vision, passing range and passing versatility is not on par with the ones i've mentioned.

 

[Dammie10]

You may be right, but think about it. Koeman came in wanting to play his Dutch NT setup and for that reason wanted Depay and Wijnaldum to hold its integration (a bit like how Xavi now wants his former teammates to bleed this team into XaviPepBall2.0).

So Koeman comes in and brings in a system that he has been playing with Frenkie for 2+ years internationally but Frenkie couldn't get the job done. For a short period of time the system looked good (Messi as false 9, Coutinho with post Bayern horsemeat before getting injured, Trincao/Dembele holding width).

Frenkie should have flourished really.

But don't get me wrong, he has had moments of excellence under Koeman and Xavi has to seriously try to get the best out of him and not have him relegated to 5th midfield option with Busquets untouchable in terms of minutes played.

You?re 100% right. I?m Dutch and I get sick of all the excuses made for Frenkie. Even in Holland they do the same. If he plays wrong as attacking cm then he needs to go in a double pivot. When that doesnt work its because he doenst play the Busquets role. Always something except Frenkie himself

Let me tell you. He never ever played the 6 role before coming to Barca. The first time was his debut against Athletic and perhaps the earlier friendlies. At Ajax it was always a double pivot with Schone. Still thats no excuse for performing horrible because in that double pivot role he also went upfront with the ball at the same attacking cm position he plays now. Or people think a double pivot role means staying at 1 spot in the middle. Koeman tried it at the beginning of last season together with Busquets and it didnt worked out. His best games where at the right or left attacking cm position. Last year and the first year.

I personally think one of the problems is that he looks less agile and he knows it himself. In the past he always feint a player with good turns or speed. If you look closely you see this is less the case now. They get hold to him. He is in a process to find new ways to make the difference. His creative passing brain must explore because Pedri is miles away in that topic and Nico looks better dribbling now. Step your game up Frenkie

 

[BarcaOG]

 

[DonAK]

https://twitter.com/barcatimes/status/1484476242124578816?s=21

At this point him leaving is probably good for him.

Wonder which Catalan midfielder Clapi will request as his replacement. Maybe he will bring Sergi Samper back from Japan as Busquets’ natural successor.

 

[Raketa10]

I would honestly like to know what does a "poor fit" even mean? Someone can be a poor fit if you have an excellent squad and you need a no.9 but instead you go out and buy a winger in order to play him as a striker. That's a definition of a poor fit. However, claiming that a good player is a poor fit for Barca right now is laughable. I can understand that Griezmann was a poor fit while Messi was still here or that Coutinho was a poor fit for Neymar's position but how ca FDJ be a poor fit while you have a grandpa playing as a DM and two kids aged 17 an 19 as other two midfielders. Maybe they are a poor fit for him and not FDJ for them?!

In addition, he is a poor fit for what exactly? Do we have a strong squad that suits 4-3-3 formation??? Hell NO! Do we have a world class midfielders so FDJ is a poor fit with the rest of them?!?!? Hell NO! So where the fuck is the problem? Our manager should find him a position in the squad and stop forcing him to play as a CM/AM player close to the line. Furthermore, someone could have said back in 2007 that Messi was a poor fit for 4-3-3 system since he wasn't a true winger or true no.9. However, Pep was smart and he learned how to utilize the best player ever. IMHO, this is one of the reasons he became the GOAT.

The way I see things, sticking to the classical 4-3-3 with the full backs and wingers we currently have is dumb as it gets. We should change the system to accommodate the best players we have and not vice versa. I don't care if we go out and play 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 or even 4-5-1. I couldn't care less about the formation as long as we finally find the best positions for all our players and start winning. There is no such thing as preferred formation only formation that actually suits your current squad! Unfortunately, the way I see things is that Xavi will rather play Gavi or Nico as wingers than actually change the formation on the field or try something different. IMHO that stubbornness in trying to replicate Pep's Barca brought us here together with our bad transfer policy.

Times have changed and people within the club and our fans should move on. We should accept the fact that we need to change and that formation isn't something written in the stone. If we don't accept that we'll continue to suffer for years o come.

 

[malvolio]

I would honestly like to know what does a "poor fit" even mean? Someone can be a poor fit if you have an excellent squad and you need a no.9 but instead you go out and buy a winger in order to play him as a striker. That's a definition of a poor fit. However, claiming that a good player is a poor fit for Barca right now is laughable. I can understand that Griezmann was a poor fit while Messi wass still here or that Coutinho was a poor fit for Neymar's position but how ca FDJ be a poor fit while you have a grandpa playing as a DM and two kids aged 17 an 19 as other two midfielders. Maybe they are a poor fit for him and not he for them?!

In addition, he is a poor fit for what exactly? Do we have a strong squad that suits 4-3-3 formation??? Hell NO! Do we have a world class midfielders so FDJ is a poor fit with the rest of them?!?!? Hell NO! So where the fuck is the problem? Our manager should find him a position in the squad and not force him to play as a CM/AM player close to the line. Furthermore, someone could have said back in 2007 that Messi was a poor fit for 4-3-3 system since he wasn't a true winger or true no.9 however Pep was smart and he learned how to utilize the best player ever. IMHO, this is one of the reasons he became the GOAT.

The way I see things, sticking to the classical 4-3-3 with the full backs and wingers we currently have is dumb as it gets. We should change the system to accommodate the best players we have and not vice versa. I don't care if we go out and play 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 or even 4-5-1. I couldn't care less about the formation as long as we finally find the best positions for all our players and start winning. There is no such thing as preferred formation only formation that actually suits your current squad!

FDJ never played sole DM in a 433. for that alone the guy is a poor fit here. we can then go into specifics, like style of play(that makes him a bad fit as sole DM in 433) and other stuff.

messi is messi, you're comparison is way off.

we tried other formations and he never performed like a 80M fee/20M a season world class midfielder. if you just want to play him as lone DM you will find out he will be average.

i get it that you want the tactics to be changed in order to find the best fit for current squad. this might work for a bit when expectations are low(reaching top 4). but in the long run every coach around does the opposite way - you think of how do you want to play and tactics to be used and then get the required players. otherwise is just compromise after compromise and won't get you trophies long therm.

 

[Raketa10]

FDJ never played sole DM in a 433. for that alone the guy is a poor fit here. we can then go into specifics, like style of play(that makes him a bad fit as sole DM in 433) and other stuff.

messi is messi, you're comparison is way off.

we tried other formations and he never performed like a 80M fee/20M a season world class midfielder. if you just want to play him as lone DM you will find out he will be average.

i get it that you want the tactics to be changed in order to find the best fit for current squad. this might work for a bit when expectations are low(reaching top 4). but in the long run every coach around does the opposite way - you think of how do you want to play and tactics to be used and then get the required players. otherwise is just compromise after compromise and won't get you trophies long therm.

I didn't specifically say that he needs to play as a sole DM. What I sad was that Xavi needs to find his best position. Why do you think that 4-3-3 is the way to go with our current squad? Do we have fast wingers? No. Do we have a proper 9? NO! Do we have fast and solid full backs? NO? Do we have midfielders who play like Xavi or Iniesta??? No! Do we have a prime Busi? No! So can you please explain to me how do you see 4-3-3 as the right formation for this squad?

I would even go further, let's say we somehow manage to sign Haaland. Should we continue to play slow and in the same way we are playing now. Could we be that dumb? Imagine playing slow as hell with that kind of a weapon in the squad? If we even think about that than I sincerely hope we won't sign him because there is no way he will excel in this kind of a football. What I am saying is that we need to evolve and stop searching for players who will replicate what Xavi, Iniesta and Messi did 10 years ago. Times have changed and we need to accept that or we'll never regain our position in the world of football.

Every great manager brought something new to the world of football. Pep definitely changed the way we were playing before and so did Cruyff. Yes, they had some similarities but some things were totally different. The thing that worries me the most is that Xavi is blindly trying to replicate Pep's Barca and that's not just wrong but a bit disappointing in my eyes. I sincerely hope he will modify his ideas and adapt to our current situation because I am still one of his biggest supporters.

 

[mc_lovin]

FDJ never played sole DM in a 433.

Van Gaal would like a word.

I didn't specifically say that he needs to play as a sole DM. What I sad was that Xavi needs to find his best position. Why do you think that 4-3-3 is the way to go with our current squad? Do we have fast wingers? No. Do we have a proper 9? NO! Do we have fast and solid full backs? NO? Do we have midfielders who play like Xavi or Iniesta??? No! Do we have a prime Busi? NO! So can you please explain to me how do you see 4-3-3 as the right formation for this squad?

I mean these are profiles you need in most tactical setups

 

[Raketa10]

We all saw how FDJ played for Ajax so why the hell wouldn't we try to utilize him in that exact way? It's way more logical to buy another physicaly strong DM and play him next to FDJ than to request from FDJ to play like Rakitic or even worse lik Busi did back in 2011. We have paid 85 mil for this guy, he is currently our most expensive player and we know he can perform. We should try to find the way how to get him back on the right track and forget about grandpa Busi and his "way of playing".