Gabriel Jesus

[Flavia]

There are always replacements in the pipelines in Brazil. It is a conveyor belt of great players like the teams in the Netherlands, Turkey and Belgium simply dont have. Mid or bottom level clubs in Belgium focus on what they can find in their home country by and large. Thats also the case for the other teams in those leagues you mention. In the last few years, 10 different teams have won or ended runner-up in the Brazilian league. So there is more variety and it is misleading to simply focus on top 2 or top 3 teams. Thats why we are always looking in the Brazilian league.

Talents still surface, but they're not as many or with the same quality Brazil used to have. The lack of organization and planning are abysmal here. The fact a club can win the league in one year, and be fighting relegation in the next is a clear symptom of this. Cruzeiro won the brasileiro in 2014, now they're battling relegation. It's really not a top league anymore.

 

[Butaan4barca]

Time to get back to Ginga.

 

[Jombi]

Talents still surface, but they're not as many or with the same quality Brazil used to have. The lack of organization and planning are abysmal here. The fact a club can win the league in one year, and be fighting relegation in the next is a clear symptom of this. Cruzeiro won the brasileiro in 2014, now they're battling relegation. It's really not a top league anymore.

This criticism has been going on for a very long time in Brazil though. Brazil as a footballing superpower is held to a completely different standard by fans and media than the Belgian or Turkish league. Its still one of the best leagues in the world and one of the few exclusive leagues where we even consider buying from.

 

[FCBarca]

Talents still surface, but they're not as many or with the same quality Brazil used to have. The lack of organization and planning are abysmal here. The fact a club can win the league in one year, and be fighting relegation in the next is a clear symptom of this. Cruzeiro won the brasileiro in 2014, now they're battling relegation. It's really not a top league anymore.

Plus, while there's corruption everywhere now Brasil suffers on an institutional level in just about every sector of life. Futbol has been decimated as they are simply transfer pools for global clubs and the footballing identity has suffered. When you bleed your talent base dry to the highest bidder you not only rid your fans & country of the football they love but their joga bonito flair we've grown to admire is never fully developed before they are Europeanised

All the great Brasilian stars of the past few decades came over in their 20s when they had already established their game

But hey, we live in an era where money dictates

 

[Yannik]

There are always replacements in the pipelines in Brazil. It is a conveyor belt of great players like the teams in the Netherlands, Turkey and Belgium simply dont have. Mid or bottom level clubs in Belgium focus on what they can find in their home country by and large. Thats also the case for the other teams in those leagues you mention. In the last few years, 10 different teams have won or ended runner-up in the Brazilian league. So there is more variety and it is misleading to simply focus on top 2 or top 3 teams. Thats why we are always looking in the Brazilian league.

The level of competition is rather backing my point. A team wins ths the brazilean league, looses its 2 key players to a european buyer, cant properly replace them and thus decrease heavily in quality while other teams overtake them and have their shot at the title now. There simply are no top teams anymore, the inexistent longetivity of squads is making it impossible for a team to assert dominance over a longer period.

Gabriel Jesus' abscence for Palmeiras is a nice little example for this dependence on individuals. They are struggling heavily at the moment after almost dominating the league, arent they?. Do you think they can find someone equal for the fee they got and regain their dominance?

Ajax was currently fighting off a handful of offers for Milik, somewhere in the 20-30m region. I don't know about you, but I can think of a lot more players that Ajax could sign to equally replace Milik, than Palmeiras could sign to replace G. Jesus. And technically, those players that Palmeiras could sign, could also be signed by Ajax, not the other way around though.

 

[Flavia]

This criticism has been going on for a very long time in Brazil though. Brazil as a footballing superpower is held to a completely different standard by fans and media than the Belgian or Turkish league. Its still one of the best leagues in the world and one of the few exclusive leagues where we even consider buying from.

It's not one of the best leagues in the world anymore, haven't been one for a long time.

 

[Jombi]

It's not one of the best leagues in the world anymore, haven't been one for a long time.

Its semantics. It all depends on what you define as "best in the world". Where is your cut-off point. The reality is that Brazil is one of the tiny number of leagues where top clubs are buying top players from to incorporate them into the first team. We dont buy players straight from the Belgian, Romanian or Turkish league to join our first team squad.

Only a very exclusive, select number of leagues are at that level; Spanish, German, English, French, Italian, Portuguese, Brazilian, Russian, Argentinian and maybe the Dutch league.

 

[Flavia]

Its semantics. It all depends on what you define as "best in the world". Where is your cut-off point. The reality is that Brazil is one of the tiny number of leagues where top clubs are buying top players from to incorporate them into the first team. We dont buy players straight from the Belgian, Romanian or Turkish league to join our first team squad.

Only a very exclusive, select number of leagues are at that level; Spanish, German, English, French, Italian, Portuguese, Brazilian, Russian, Argentinian and maybe the Dutch league.

Brazil is a very large country, with a lot more people than Belgium, Romania or Turkey. Football is the most popular sport here, so it's natural good players will appear. That's not what make a good league, though. The quality of players produced is not what it used to be, either. And those two factors are related. League is weak, players leave when still teenagers, or as soon as they show any potential.

 

[Jombi]

The level of competition is rather backing my point. A team wins ths the brazilean league, looses its 2 key players to a european buyer, cant properly replace them and thus decrease heavily in quality while other teams overtake them and have their shot at the title now. There simply are no top teams anymore, the inexistent longetivity of squads is making it impossible for a team to assert dominance over a longer period.

Gabriel Jesus' abscence for Palmeiras is a nice little example for this dependence on individuals. They are struggling heavily at the moment after almost dominating the league, arent they?. Do you think they can find someone equal for the fee they got and regain their dominance?

Ajax was currently fighting off a handful of offers for Milik, somewhere in the 20-30m region. I don't know about you, but I can think of a lot more players that Ajax could sign to equally replace Milik, than Palmeiras could sign to replace G. Jesus. And technically, those players that Palmeiras could sign, could also be signed by Ajax, not the other way around though.

I see your point, but unlike in the Netherlands, probably 10 different Brazilian teams sell their players for 20-30m euros. In Netherlands, its just a tiny number of teams that have that kind of quality in their squad (and now days many of these players first have to perform great in their NT for top clubs to pay attention). The Brazilian clubs have a far better network and connections to get the bast players from South America than Dutch clubs. You talk about Ajax, but the Dutch league is made up of more than Ajax.

Palmeiras "dominating" the league is an exaggeration. They were 3 points ahead of Corinthians before GJ left and joined the Brazilian squad a couple of weeks ago. Now they are tied.

Brazil is a very large country, with a lot more people than Belgium, Romania or Turkey. Football is the most popular sport here, so it's natural good players will appear. That's not what make a good league, though. The quality of players produced is not what it used to be, either. And those two factors are related. League is weak, players leave when still teenagers, or as soon as they show any potential.

"not what it used to be" is the key here though. You are not comparing the Brazilian league with Austria or Belgium or Romania. You are comparing it to what you think it was in the past.

All the great Brasilian stars of the past few decades came over in their 20s when they had already established their game

Thats simply not true. Ronaldo for example joined PSV as an 18 year old while Neymar 20 years later joined us as a 21-year old. Let's not kid ourselves here, corruption has been rampant in Brazil for decades. Whether it is "worse" now, or whether the people have become more aware of it is an open question.

 

[Flavia]

"not what it used to be" is the key here though. You are not comparing the Brazilian league with Austria or Belgium or Romania. You are comparing it to what you think it was in the past.

I never compared the br league with belgium, austria or romania. Just refuting your argument that it is still a top league, when it hasn't been for a long time. And that it's currently inferior to the portuguese league and others, for example.

 

[Jombi]

I never compared the br league with belgium, austria or romania. Just refuting your argument that it is still a top league, when it hasn't been for a long time. And that it's currently inferior to the portuguese league and others, for example.

I dont necessarily disagree with you that the Russian and the Portuguese league are stronger. My definition of one of the best leagues in the world, is a league where top clubs routinely buy players from to join their first teams. These leagues are part of a very select group of top leagues in the world. And Brazil is part of that small group.

 

[Butaan4barca]

injured ? how bad is it ?

 

[El Flaco]

Gabriel Jesus's goal vs. Denmark

[gfy]TepidWickedCrustacean[/gfy]

 

[El Flaco]

Gabriel Jesus' 1st goal vs Honduras

[gfy]AcademicNippyDiscus[/gfy]

Gabriel Jesus' 2nd goal vs Honduras

[gfy]TallLinearGoshawk[/gfy]

 

[Trickykid]

So, for those of you who watched the majority of the Olympics, how was he all in all?
I only watched a third or so of the matches, and while he at times looked very immature and rash, he also showed some real, natural talent in glimpses.