Gerard Deulofeu

[The Observer]

if there was a manager willing to develop him. Tito wasn't

Not true AFAIK. Tito wanted to keep him and rotate him between Barca B and the first team. Deulofeu himself didn't want to stay at Barca B anymore and prefered to get loaned. Some club official revealed that a while ago IIRC.

 

[JamDav1982]

Which squad is stronger now, than ever before? Certainly not Barça's, the current squad is thinner and weaker than previous seasons. The minutes Deulofeu is getting at Everton, he could get at Barça, if there was a manager willing to develop him. Tito wasn't, and he was the one who defined the squad for the current season. So it made sense to let him go on loan, but that is not the club philosophy. What it used to be, anyway.

The squad is stronger in terms of their being pretty much no way in for young players at the moment, that has not been the case in the past.

As for it not being the 'Barca philosophy' to loan out younger players where have you got that from.

Are you trying to say it is just as easy to get a game for Barcelona as it is for Everton? Where he has the likes of Steven Naismith to fight for a place against.

There is no way he would get the same miniutes at Barca as he would at Everton and not in as important games either.

Looking back their is a history of loaning out younger players in the past, its nothing new.

 

[Flavia]

The squad is stronger in terms of their being pretty much no way in for young players at the moment, that has not been the case in the past.

As for it not being the 'Barca philosophy' to loan out younger players where have you got that from.

Are you trying to say it is just as easy to get a game for Barcelona as it is for Everton? Where he has the likes of Steven Naismith to fight for a place against.

There is no way he would get the same miniutes at Barca as he would at Everton and not in as important games either.

Looking back their is a history of loaning out younger players in the past, its nothing new.

Loaning huge prospects? I don't know about that. But yes, he could be getting the odd 10 minutes in every game, that he is now, with a manager focused on developing him. Imagine if this loan turned out to be a mistake and he stagnated, or had any other problem. You need to keep the special players and develop yourself, not give the job to someone else. The not-so-hot prospects is another story, not everyone will make it at Barça.

 

[JamDav1982]

Loaning huge prospects? I don't know about that. But yes, he could be getting the odd 10 minutes in every game, that he is now, with a manager focused on developing him. Imagine if this loan turned out to be a mistake and he stagnated, or had any other problem. You need to keep the special players and develop yourself, not give the job to someone else. The not-so-hot prospects is another story, not everyone will make it at Barça.

The odd ten minutes in La Liga games that are already won is not all that worthwhile and what the player will be looking for though.

Would he be put on as a sub in tight games against the top teams Barca can play the way he has been with Everton? I doubt it.

Surely you can see the best scenario for the likes of Deulofeu and Rafinha is to be getting first team football and being players that their teams rely on and not just getting largely meaningless minutes at Barcelona.

 

[Flavia]

The odd ten minutes in La Liga games that are already won is not all that worthwhile and what the player will be looking for though.

Would he be put on as a sub in tight games against the top teams Barca can play the way he has been with Everton? I doubt it.

Surely you can see the best scenario for the likes of Deulofeu and Rafinha is to be getting first team football and being players that their teams rely on and not just getting largely meaningless minutes at Barcelona.

Why not? That's what he's getting at Everton. All that would depend on the manager. Pep would play him. He played Roberto in the bernabeu once, in the last 10 minutes. Loaning is not the best scenario, it's what is available. Quite different. Tata has debuted Adama, Dongou, Patric. In a different scenario, where he wasn't thrown in the last minute to be the manager, he surely would've agree to develop Deulofeu. Imagine if Messi had been loaned to develop... or even Iniesta or Xavi. Rijkaard had a team full of stars, still managed to make them play.

 

[Ghost]

Can't believe I missed the game.


Glad to know that he performed well yet again, at least. Can't wait for him to come back. Although I won't really mind loaning him for another year..

 

[JamDav1982]

Why not? That's what he's getting at Everton. All that would depend on the manager. Pep would play him. He played Roberto in the bernabeu once, in the last 10 minutes. Loaning is not the best scenario, it's what is available. Quite different. Tata has debuted Adama, Dongou, Patric. In a different scenario, where he wasn't thrown in the last minute to be the manager, he surely would've agree to develop Deulofeu. Imagine if Messi had been loaned to develop... or even Iniesta or Xavi. Rijkaard had a team full of stars, still managed to make them play.

He is getting time on the pitch against the biggest teams and most important games and that will def increase as he gets more used to the league.

At Barcelona he would not be in the starting line up and even then would he brought on before Pedro or Tello? No chance he would and rightfully so.

He might be brought on in meaningless games that are won, where there is not tempo and the other players are seeing the game out. What would he learn there?

Loaning is far and away the best scenario and I would bet that it was one of the stipulations that Deulofeu made to stay at the club.

As the other poster said Deulofeu was offered b team/first team this season and didnt want it.

Messi was a different scenario as he was good enough to be a first team player they relied on and needed as were Iniesta and Xavi at a young age. Deulofeu is not at that level yet.

 

[Flavia]

He is getting time on the pitch against the biggest teams and most important games and that will def increase as he gets more used to the league.

At Barcelona he would not be in the starting line up and even then would he brought on before Pedro or Tello? No chance he would and rightfully so.

He might be brought on in meaningless games that are won, where there is not tempo and the other players are seeing the game out. What would he learn there?

Loaning is far and away the best scenario and I would bet that it was one of the stipulations that Deulofeu made to stay at the club.

As the other poster said Deulofeu was offered b team/first team this season and didnt want it.

Messi was a different scenario as he was good enough to be a first team player they relied on and needed as were Iniesta and Xavi at a young age. Deulofeu is not at that level yet.

You are probably not reading my posts, or just being stubborn as usual, twisting even the subject you started yourself. All your supositions are based on what Tito did last season, and Tata is doing now. And you started this conversation when you asked about the philosophy. And yes, if Barça's philosophy was being followed, if there was a manager following it, the correct way would be to develop him in barcelona, not loan him. All those "if's" have no place. The best scenario will always be to keep and develop your best players yourself, not to trust in strangers to do it.

 

[DonAndres]

Why not? That's what he's getting at Everton. All that would depend on the manager. Pep would play him. He played Roberto in the bernabeu once, in the last 10 minutes. Loaning is not the best scenario, it's what is available. Quite different. Tata has debuted Adama, Dongou, Patric. In a different scenario, where he wasn't thrown in the last minute to be the manager, he surely would've agree to develop Deulofeu. Imagine if Messi had been loaned to develop... or even Iniesta or Xavi. Rijkaard had a team full of stars, still managed to make them play.

He's been getting substitute cameos at Everton so far, as you predict he would've gotten at Barca. The difference being that at Everton his time is increasing and he is on course to be a regular starter within a few weeks from now. At Barca he'd be stagnated at those 10 minute cameos behind the likes of Alexis, Neymar, and Pedro especially when the pressuring part of the season came along.

Star players usually don't go on loan, but circumstances always differ. Our squad is thin overall but we have a huge amount of players in attack. Deulofeu wouldn't have been able to get to this point where he is now on the path to being able to fight for a place at Barca on his return. If he hadn't left, he'd still have been a fringe player who would play occasionally as a result of the manager having the luxury to give him minutes when he felt like it, not being relied upon to become a key player as he will be at Everton.

Also, at the time, a loan move was like a lifeline for Deulofeu's hopes to one day succeed at Barca. Tito was still manager at that point, and the fear was that Deulofeu would regularly be watching the game from the stands under him.

 

[JamDav1982]

You are probably not reading my posts, or just being stubborn as usual, twisting even the subject you started yourself. All your supositions are based on what Tito did last season, and Tata is doing now. And the you started this conversation when you asked about the philosophy. And yes, if Barça's philosophy was being followed, if the manager was playing by it, the correct way would be to develop him in barcelona, not loan him. All those "if's" have no place. The best scenario will always be to keep and develop your best players yourself, not to trust in strangers to do it.

What is Tata doing now that Tito never did last season?

You act like the Barca youth system is something sacred that no player should ever go out with.

In reality the top players that have come through the system in recent years have spent time elsewhere - Fabregas and Pique left and most likely came back as better players for it while Busquets never joined till he was 17 and Pedro when he was 18.

It is not the case that players should only be brought up the Barca system and has never been the philosophy of the club anyway. Players like Arteta were highly thought of and went on loan at 18.

 

[Flavia]

What is Tata doing now that Tito never did last season?

You act like the Barca youth system is something sacred that no player should ever go out with.

In reality the top players that have come through the system in recent years have spent time elsewhere - Fabregas and Pique left and most likely came back as better players for it while Busquets never joined till he was 17 and Pedro when he was 18.

It is not the case that players should only be brought up the Barca system and has never been the philosophy of the club anyway. Players like Arteta were highly thought of and went on loan at 18.

No, I don't. I'm referring to special players, like Deulofeu. The loan was the way to go because Barça don't have a manager like Pep here. Just look at Cuenca during Pep's days.
And Cesc came back for a lot of money, when he wasn't even needed, as there was a better prospect here that ended up leaving due to this "new" approach. I surely hope the same doesn't need to happen again.

 

[Flavia]

He's been getting substitute cameos at Everton so far, as you predict he would've gotten at Barca. The difference being that at Everton his time is increasing and he is on course to be a regular starter within a few weeks from now. At Barca he'd be stagnated at those 10 minute cameos behind the likes of Alexis, Neymar, and Pedro especially when the pressuring part of the season came along.

Star players usually don't go on loan, but circumstances always differ. Our squad is thin overall but we have a huge amount of players in attack. Deulofeu wouldn't have been able to get to this point where he is now on the path to being able to fight for a place at Barca on his return. If he hadn't left, he'd still have been a fringe player who would play occasionally as a result of the manager having the luxury to give him minutes when he felt like it, not being relied upon to become a key player as he will be at Everton.

Also, at the time, a loan move was like a lifeline for Deulofeu's hopes to one day succeed at Barca. Tito was still manager at that point, and the fear was that Deulofeu would regularly be watching the game from the stands under him.

With Tito or Tata as managers, I agree. But seeing what Pep did with Cuenca and even Tello, someone like him would manage to do it.

But, the argument started when Jamdav asked FCBarca this: "Did you not claim that loaning players out like this was against the Barcelona philosophy!"

And it is. Now he's deviated the point to something else, he's just doing is usual thing, to go on and on in pointless arguments. I don't even know why I keep answering

 

[JamDav1982]

No, I don't. I'm referring to special players, like Deulofeu. The loan was the way to go because Barça don't have a manager like Pep here. Just look at Cuenca during Pep's days.
And Cesc came back for a lot of money, when he wasn't even needed, as there was a better prospect here that ended up leaving due to this "new" approach. I surely hope the same doesn't need to happen again.

Pep days? What about Bartra in the Pep days? He was a year older than Deulofeu is now and was never played and full backs and centre midfielders were played ahead of him.

A bit too simplistic to say he would have played under Pep.

Cuenca was given a chance no doubting that but he never had the players on front of him that Deulofeu does and is probably at this stage not good enough for Barcelona anyway.

Plenty of young players were not given big chances under Pep at the age of 19 while others like Bojan career stalled under him.

Deulofeu will learn more on loan at Everton than he would getting dead minutes at Barca.

Would you have him as a first team squad member now? Assuming you have a squad of two players for every position?

 

[JamDav1982]

With Tito or Tata as managers, I agree. But seeing what Pep did with Cuenca and even Tello, someone like him would manage to do it.

But, the argument started when Jamdav asked FCBarca this: "Did you not claim that loaning players out like this was against the Barcelona philosophy!"

And it is. Now he's deviated the point to something else, he's just doing is usual thing, to go on and on in pointless arguments. I don't even know why I keep answering

Yes the philosophy for loans appeared to be that you bought useless Brazilian youngsters for £20m and then loaned them out without ever playing them. Lets get back to those days?

Situations change and despite that Barcelona have always loaned out players that were not ready or not quite good enough for the first team squad.

 

[Flavia]

Bartra debuted with Pep. I'm pretty sure he'd have more playing time last season with Pep, than he did with Tito. Pep also called Deulofeu more than one time. But I think he never left the bench, or if he did it was a friendly. But it's a pretty good indicative that he saw the potential he has. Keirrisson was on txiki, btw. Anyhow, feel free to have the last word on how the philosophy's still the same and nothing's changed