Gerardo "Tata" Martino
- Thread starter Faceless
- Start date
Alarcón
New member
don't joke like that man. What is wrong with you!!!!!
yeah that wasn't funny. I had a heart attack for a moment before I noticed it was BS. This could kill people you know
Barcilliant
Senior Member
If we lose against City and exit the CL Tata will be hung out to dry-Guaranteed.
Like I said why the sudden downturn in form after the break. Tata has rotated the players so they are fresh. They just couldn't be bothered to put in a full shift. If I go to work and start cruising-the company will give me a couple of warnings and then they will fire me. They wouldn't expect my manager to light a fire up my ass every day and "motivate" me. People in REAL life do jobs that are more boring and even more demanding with a lot LESS pay and still deliver day in day out.
These spoilt brats earn crazy amounts of money and cant be bothered to show up against a relegation team. Tata is just covering for the team. What do you want him to say?? "This is a shit team with no hunger, desire and there is no one decent on the bench either???". If he said that the players would be even more demotivated and would ask for his head.
Like I said why the sudden downturn in form after the break. Tata has rotated the players so they are fresh. They just couldn't be bothered to put in a full shift. If I go to work and start cruising-the company will give me a couple of warnings and then they will fire me. They wouldn't expect my manager to light a fire up my ass every day and "motivate" me. People in REAL life do jobs that are more boring and even more demanding with a lot LESS pay and still deliver day in day out.
These spoilt brats earn crazy amounts of money and cant be bothered to show up against a relegation team. Tata is just covering for the team. What do you want him to say?? "This is a shit team with no hunger, desire and there is no one decent on the bench either???". If he said that the players would be even more demotivated and would ask for his head.
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
I know I do too much of this 
lol, but prepare for a giant wall of text:
It’s counterproductive to play the blame game between players vs coach the way you guys are doing, it’s always gonna end up being a debate of “which came first, chicken or egg”. Both sides are lacking and it’s not an entirely simple cause->effect relationship. In the end the equation remains the same: underwhelming coach + underwhelming players= underwhelming performances.
Tata is a different kind of coach from what we need. He doesn’t have a unifying system, but a set of several tactics. This is why we can use them selectively in big games to react to our opponents and succeed, but as a team we have several shortcomings. The factors are clear: poor team shape, disconnect between players, undisciplined and lazy movement, not working as a unit, etc. His tactical approach goes into instructions such as “play more vertical”, “try mixing up our passes”, or “try a few counterattacks” which is superficial. That kind of approach relies on the players being in good form to succeed, whereas a disciplined tactical system would support their form. This is why we crumbled as the season went along; much like the lack of a system caused us to crumble last year too. Getting better players would mean that the players’ form is more sustained but it wouldn’t actually change the fact that Tata doesn’t go to a deep level on tactics. You can’t really say that Tata’s been doing his job right yet suddenly we went from ‘in form’ to 10 weak links + Messi. We need a coach that the players can rely on, not a coach that only relies on the players. Tata is a decent transition coach and certainly not at fault, but next season we need a rebirth and while I am fully confident that he’d do better with better players, he’s simply not the style of manager that suits us.
The squad itself is also a crippling factor. We’ve declined massively over the past 2-3 years and that’s evident. We have aging veterans, a lack of great young players, and almost 0 squad diversity. Any coach would have a struggle to succeed with them and an overhaul is absolutely needed.
If we improve both (coach+ players), the club will go on an upward turn. The board and management need to let go of this vice-like grip on transfers and let the manager turn this squad inside-out for the sake of success. The coach himself should have a firm philosophy and undercut all of this seniority and ‘living in the past’ crap we’ve established.
I feel that the man to do this is De Boer. He’s a coach with a clear vision who would implement a system, get the most out of his players, and not be easily impressed. He’s the type to demand and get us the needed transfers as well. If we need some counterattacking flavor, he’ll add it to the system in a disciplined way. If our players lose hunger, he will not be afraid to bench them. A team with an identity is a team with drive; they’d work as a collective and succeed even if it isn’t the same levels as with Pep.
Analysis of De Boer's defense system at Ajax, see how comprehensive that is: http://smcb1997.wordpress.com/2014/...a-tactical-analysis-of-ajaxs-defensive-phase/
lol, but prepare for a giant wall of text: It’s counterproductive to play the blame game between players vs coach the way you guys are doing, it’s always gonna end up being a debate of “which came first, chicken or egg”. Both sides are lacking and it’s not an entirely simple cause->effect relationship. In the end the equation remains the same: underwhelming coach + underwhelming players= underwhelming performances.
Tata is a different kind of coach from what we need. He doesn’t have a unifying system, but a set of several tactics. This is why we can use them selectively in big games to react to our opponents and succeed, but as a team we have several shortcomings. The factors are clear: poor team shape, disconnect between players, undisciplined and lazy movement, not working as a unit, etc. His tactical approach goes into instructions such as “play more vertical”, “try mixing up our passes”, or “try a few counterattacks” which is superficial. That kind of approach relies on the players being in good form to succeed, whereas a disciplined tactical system would support their form. This is why we crumbled as the season went along; much like the lack of a system caused us to crumble last year too. Getting better players would mean that the players’ form is more sustained but it wouldn’t actually change the fact that Tata doesn’t go to a deep level on tactics. You can’t really say that Tata’s been doing his job right yet suddenly we went from ‘in form’ to 10 weak links + Messi. We need a coach that the players can rely on, not a coach that only relies on the players. Tata is a decent transition coach and certainly not at fault, but next season we need a rebirth and while I am fully confident that he’d do better with better players, he’s simply not the style of manager that suits us.
The squad itself is also a crippling factor. We’ve declined massively over the past 2-3 years and that’s evident. We have aging veterans, a lack of great young players, and almost 0 squad diversity. Any coach would have a struggle to succeed with them and an overhaul is absolutely needed.
If we improve both (coach+ players), the club will go on an upward turn. The board and management need to let go of this vice-like grip on transfers and let the manager turn this squad inside-out for the sake of success. The coach himself should have a firm philosophy and undercut all of this seniority and ‘living in the past’ crap we’ve established.
I feel that the man to do this is De Boer. He’s a coach with a clear vision who would implement a system, get the most out of his players, and not be easily impressed. He’s the type to demand and get us the needed transfers as well. If we need some counterattacking flavor, he’ll add it to the system in a disciplined way. If our players lose hunger, he will not be afraid to bench them. A team with an identity is a team with drive; they’d work as a collective and succeed even if it isn’t the same levels as with Pep.
Analysis of De Boer's defense system at Ajax, see how comprehensive that is: http://smcb1997.wordpress.com/2014/...a-tactical-analysis-of-ajaxs-defensive-phase/
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No, it shows how naive the fans are.
I know I do too much of this
It’s counterproductive to play the blame game between players vs coach the way you guys are doing, it’s always gonna end up being a debate of “which came first, chicken or egg”. Both sides are lacking and it’s not an entirely simple cause->effect relationship. In the end the equation remains the same: underwhelming coach + underwhelming players= underwhelming performances.
Tata is a different kind of coach from what we need. He doesn’t have a unifying system, but a set of several tactics. This is why we can use them selectively in big games to react to our opponents and succeed, but as a team we have several shortcomings. The factors are clear: poor team shape, disconnect between players, undisciplined and lazy movement, not working as a unit, etc. His tactical approach goes into instructions such as “play more vertical”, “try mixing up our passes”, or “try a few counterattacks” which is superficial. That kind of approach relies on the players being in good form to succeed, whereas a disciplined tactical system would support their form. This is why we crumbled as the season went along; much like the lack of a system caused us to crumble last year too. Getting better players would mean that the players’ form is more sustained but it wouldn’t actually change the fact that Tata doesn’t go to a deep level on tactics. You can’t really say that Tata’s been doing his job right yet suddenly we went from ‘in form’ to 10 weak links + Messi. We need a coach that the players can rely on, not a coach that only relies on the players. Tata is a decent transition coach and certainly not at fault, but next season we need a rebirth and while I am fully confident that he’d do better with better players, he’s simply not the style of manager that suits us.
The squad itself is also a crippling factor. We’ve declined massively over the past 2-3 years and that’s evident. We have aging veterans, a lack of great young players, and almost 0 squad diversity. Any coach would have a struggle to succeed with them and an overhaul is absolutely needed.
If we improve both (coach+ players), the club will go on an upward turn. The board and management need to let go of this vice-like grip on transfers and let the manager turn this squad inside-out for the sake of success. The coach himself should have a firm philosophy and undercut all of this seniority and ‘living in the past’ crap we’ve established.
I feel that the man to do this is De Boer. He’s a coach with a clear vision who would implement a system, get the most out of his players, and not be easily impressed. He’s the type to demand and get us the needed transfers as well. If we need some counterattacking flavor, he’ll add it to the system in a disciplined way. If our players lose hunger, he will not be afraid to bench them. A team with an identity is a team with drive; they’d work as a collective and succeed even if it isn’t the same levels as with Pep.
Analysis of De Boer's defense system at Ajax, see how comprehensive that is: http://smcb1997.wordpress.com/2014/...a-tactical-analysis-of-ajaxs-defensive-phase/
Well Tata did good with Newells and Paraguay I don't see a reason why he can't do it here but if the players don't want to play no coach in the world can make them. We all know Barca players don't like change and if their press conference is anything to go by most are in denial and still living in the treble seasons. We need at least one transfer in all areas a GK,CB,CM maybe 9 (debatable) to actually have some basis to go on. Sacking Tata or him leaving will hurt the club too much it would be the 3rd season in a row with a new coach and it will be the same for at least one more season. We have seen Tata to conjure up tactics in all our big games (we have lost none of them) but thats also because the players actually care to show up in them but against smaller teams we struggle because the players don't give a shit because the manager is helpless and they know he can't bench them for any other player like Alves knows Montoya isn't even close to his competition, Pique (although he is one of the only players going for a win every time) knows that he is a starter no matter what, Xavi knows there is no one to replace him, Busi can't be subbed when performing bad with Song there as the back up DM. So we are actually putting Tata out to the sharks asking him to motivate and bench underperforming players but when asked with whom no one bothers to answer because there isn't one pure and simple. We need a change its been 3 seasons too long since we have warranted one. But I wish that was the only thing wrong this season, we have had one of the most unlucky seasons in history let me sum it up how:
1) Massive amounts of injuries to important players (Messi,Neymar,Iniesta,Alba,Valdez) and that too with a virtually non-existent bench
2) Our main rivals Madrid playing like shit for the whole 1st half of the season and not dropping points
3) Neymar-gate that presumably tore a rift in the dressing room
4) An insane amount of first teamers that are off form
Now, keeping the aforementioned points in mind I think Tata has done a extremely good job we still have a chance of winning La Liga, we are in the finals of the Copa Del Rey, we held the most free scoring team in Europe from scoring at home and are virtually in the QF of the CL what else do you want from the guy and unbeatable season rotating every player while they sit on their ass the whole time? I don't think any manager could have done a better job under the circumstances with the added shit from the press and some so called fans
G
Gascav
Guest
This
ThisI know I do too much of this
It’s counterproductive to play the blame game between players vs coach the way you guys are doing, it’s always gonna end up being a debate of “which came first, chicken or egg”. Both sides are lacking and it’s not an entirely simple cause->effect relationship. In the end the equation remains the same: underwhelming coach + underwhelming players= underwhelming performances.
Tata is a different kind of coach from what we need. He doesn’t have a unifying system, but a set of several tactics. This is why we can use them selectively in big games to react to our opponents and succeed, but as a team we have several shortcomings. The factors are clear: poor team shape, disconnect between players, undisciplined and lazy movement, not working as a unit, etc. His tactical approach goes into instructions such as “play more vertical”, “try mixing up our passes”, or “try a few counterattacks” which is superficial. That kind of approach relies on the players being in good form to succeed, whereas a disciplined tactical system would support their form. This is why we crumbled as the season went along; much like the lack of a system caused us to crumble last year too. Getting better players would mean that the players’ form is more sustained but it wouldn’t actually change the fact that Tata doesn’t go to a deep level on tactics. You can’t really say that Tata’s been doing his job right yet suddenly we went from ‘in form’ to 10 weak links + Messi. We need a coach that the players can rely on, not a coach that only relies on the players. Tata is a decent transition coach and certainly not at fault, but next season we need a rebirth and while I am fully confident that he’d do better with better players, he’s simply not the style of manager that suits us.
The squad itself is also a crippling factor. We’ve declined massively over the past 2-3 years and that’s evident. We have aging veterans, a lack of great young players, and almost 0 squad diversity. Any coach would have a struggle to succeed with them and an overhaul is absolutely needed.
If we improve both (coach+ players), the club will go on an upward turn. The board and management need to let go of this vice-like grip on transfers and let the manager turn this squad inside-out for the sake of success. The coach himself should have a firm philosophy and undercut all of this seniority and ‘living in the past’ crap we’ve established.
I feel that the man to do this is De Boer. He’s a coach with a clear vision who would implement a system, get the most out of his players, and not be easily impressed. He’s the type to demand and get us the needed transfers as well. If we need some counterattacking flavor, he’ll add it to the system in a disciplined way. If our players lose hunger, he will not be afraid to bench them. A team with an identity is a team with drive; they’d work as a collective and succeed even if it isn’t the same levels as with Pep.
Analysis of De Boer's defense system at Ajax, see how comprehensive that is: http://smcb1997.wordpress.com/2014/...a-tactical-analysis-of-ajaxs-defensive-phase/
Barcilliant
Senior Member
THIS.
Bring ANY manager and I mean ANY manager in the world and they would have problems. Pep saw the cracks and jumped ship asap. Tito won a league title but that's was because RM self-destructed. Witness how even a manager like Mourinho found RM difficult to manage. This despite winning the title the previous season.
This really has nothing to do with tactics. It has everything to do with complacency, lack of desire and staleness. Has De Boer done a Van Gaal and won a CL title with a bunch of academy products?? No. He's done well with the Ajax kids but these kids play their heart out for him. Our guys are GONE. They are beyond help.
darthvader7888
Banned
He didn't jump ship because of the cracks, he jumped ship because the board didn't let him fix them.
ryuken
Senior Member
Which i think Laporta would have let it happen if he was still in charge. But then Rossell got elected and here we are. 3 years with no reinforcement
Maria
New member
In the worst season of Pep(who according to you only put players on the pitch and didn't had any tactical variations) we had as many points after 27 rounds as we have right now..so I don't know why would you give him as an example if he was only someone who had the players do all the job for him. Also with Tito we won a league because we made 100 points..and we made those points even if we had a draw and a loss in the league against RM.
So according to you we won so many points in the first half of season because Tata is a genius, but now we're so poor because the players don't want to win anymore. Interesting..
Why does it even matter..in the end we all know that he was just someone who was lucky enough to have Messi, Iniesta & Xavi play for him and Tito doing all his tactical work. And this season we have someone even better, it's just that the players have no desire to play football anymore, so imagine what someone like Pep, who doesn't have any imagination, would have done.
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Barcilliant
Senior Member
No SOILD proof of that. Tello's agent mentioned it but you're right-its probably true.
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