Hans-Dieter Flick

[jamrock]

If we look and the underlying defensive metrics, they might look good for the 22/23 team.

STill, the point of the debate was whether we got lucky points, and some objected the fact that we got.
Some with the usual worn out motto 'you don't win trophies by luck' which football has proven wrong time and time again.

The data was presented to them that categorically proves we got 17 more points in games we didn't deserve.
That was all luck plus Stegen.

And that is not only stats, mind you. It's eye test also
We all remember those games and those months of terrible football, that we were discussing in here after each game how lucky we were, and how Stegen saved us in X or Y situation

Who are the teams that won a league title by luck?

Because Xavi Barcelona isn't one, so list the many that has every happened in league football.

 

[Birdy]

Who are the teams that won a league title by luck?

Because Xavi Barcelona isn't one, so list the many that has every happened in league football.

I just proved to you that Xavi's Barca got 17 more points than deserved in 22/23.

Now imagine how easy it would have been to win that league, if we didn't have that luck.
It would have been pretty close with Madrid, let alone that they started dropping more points when it was clear they are not catching up

 

[jamrock]

I just proved to you that Xavi's Barca got 17 more points than deserved in 22/23.

Now imagine how easy it would have been to win that league, if we didn't have that luck.
It would have been pretty close with Madrid, let alone that they started dropping more points when it was clear they are not catching up.

You most certainly did not.

 

[Birdy]

You most certainly did not.

Yes I did.
READ

 

[jamrock]

Yes I did.
READ

I did, its none sense.

Goal keepers exist.

Their is reason X strikers plays for Liverpool and Y striker plays for everton, the reason is in those stats you like to show us each time your opinion on something is proven to be wrong.

But give us a list of the many teams that won league titles due to luck.

 

[RedxMAK]

There is MUCH shame in playing badly and winning if you are Fc Barcelona.
That's our identity, our DNA

Have said it time and time again to the many gloryhunters here: if you want just wins and trophies w/o the football, you are at the wrong club. Go support Madrid or Juventus

Big part of the reason Xavi was kicked out was the football, whether some like it or not.
His luck ended in 23/24, after he had exhausted it in 22/23

In Fc Barcelona, football comes first. The base is the football, on the top of which results (and trophies) have to come. But it's not the other way round

Ofc, we all support Barcelona for the legendary and beautiful style of play. I agree with many of your points. But, in the eyes of many, including Joan Laporta and the board. They’d rather win something than nothing. Yeah at times we suffered in that league title winning season but there were also many goods in it. It’s not entirely luck.

 

[iniestaGOAT]

I wasn’t lying. He brought up the big chances to try and prove me wrong

You are dealing with a very shameless individual here.
lil bro is insistent on discrediting out own league wininng season.

I bet he is a madrista.
I have no doubts.

BAn his ass ASAP

 

[Birdy]

I did, its none sense.

Goal keepers exist.

Their is reason X strikers plays for Liverpool and Y striker plays for everton, the reason is in those stats you like to show us each time your opinion on something is proven to be wrong.

But give us a list of the many teams that won league titles due to luck.

I included Stegen in the reasons, if you didn't see it.
But it was not only Stegen. If an opposition player skies a sitter that's not on Stegen.
That's on our luck

It's funny, the other day you emphatically requested stats from me to prove my point on Xavi.
Now that you got the stats that CATEGORICALLY prove Xavi got 17 more points than deserved,
you choose to ignore them and keep parroting the same nonsense

 

[RedxMAK]

I included Stegen in the reasons, if you didn't see it.
But it was not only Stegen. If an opposition player skies a sitter that's not on Stegen.
That's on our luck

It's funny, the other day you emphatically requested stats from me to prove my point on Xavi.
Now that you got the stats that CATEGORICALLY prove Xavi got 17 more points than deserved,
you choose to ignore them and keep parroting the same nonsense

I tried with you man but I have to say. If it’s undeserved, so what, life is unfair. If there was something as fair in life, we would have 9 UCLs.

 

[jamrock]

I included Stegen in the reasons, if you didn't see it.
But it was not only Stegen. If an opposition player skies a sitter that's not on Stegen.
That's on our luck

It's funny, the other day you emphatically requested stats from me to prove my point on Xavi.
Now that you got the stats that CATEGORICALLY prove Xavi got 17 more points than deserved,
you choose to ignore them and keep parroting the same nonsense

Lol you clearly don't get the

"Goal keepers exist line".

The stats showed you reaching for an excuse.

I always ignored them, because they tend to be non sense.

 

[serghei]

Birdy making an end of the year effort to secure the Best Cope 2024 Barcaforum Award.

Sorry mate, 2022-23 La Liga was still won by the best team of that year.

 

[Birdy]

Lol you clearly don't get the

"Goal keepers exist line".

The stats showed you reaching for an excuse.

I always ignored them, because they tend to be non sense.

GKs and finishing are irrelevant when determining whether a team was lucky or not.
You determine the big chances created by each team and compare whether that was reflected in the final score.
Just browse any tactical analysis of a game and you will see it
But you yourself has used it in the past when it suited your agenda.
Did you say that Madrid, for instance, deserved the 2022 CL, when Liverpool missed 10 or so big chances?

That is your problem if you choose to ignore it.
You can choose to believe that the earth is flat as well.
That won't change the fact that it is round

Whether you like or not, believe it or not, accept it or not,
Xavi got insanely lucky in 22/23, helped by Stegen heroics.

He got 17 more points than deserved.
This season, so far, Flick has 7 less than deserved
Levels...

 

[Birdy]

I tried with you man but I have to say. If it’s undeserved, so what, life is unfair. If there was something as fair in life, we would have 9 UCLs.

Yes I know it happens in football

Point of discussion was never if lucky results happen in football.

Point of discussion whether Xavi got lucky in 22/23, where you Jamrock and some others disputed the statement in the first place.

Let's agree then that it is now settled, backed by data, that Xavi got hugely lucky in 22/23,
and then move on to the next topic

 

[Birdy]

Birdy making an end of the year effort to secure the Best Cope 2024 Barcaforum Award.

Sorry mate, 2022-23 La Liga was still won by the best team of that year.

You have a habit of constructing strawmans when cornered

I feel you...

Take your L now and walk

 

[serghei]

I don't know what data you talk about there lol.

This is the data for 2022-23 season.

As you can see...

1st in points, 88 vs 78 (actual winners)
1st in least conceded goals, 20 vs 36 (best defense)
1st in expected points, 79 vs 76 (so called deserved winners)
1st in expected goals, 83 vs 79 (best chance creation)
1st in expected goals against 33 vs 39 (so best defense in terms of preventing chance creation)

2nd only in goals, 70 vs 75. Meaning our players scored fewer goals from more chances compared to Madrid's.

Keep in mind that the league was won something like 4 rounds in advance. So the stats went down in the remaining 4 rounds as the team lost 3 out of the remaining 4 matches due to having nothing to play for, being crowned Champions in round no 34 vs Espanyol.

So we won the league in 2022-23 both in the real and in the "deserving" world.