Hector Bellerin

[Gnidrologist]

What a beautiful train wreck of a post.

In the first paragraph you seem to having an argument with yourself. No-one has suggested players should stay at the club half of their adult careers (or even any of their adult careers) warming the bench until they're 30. That certainly isn't what Bartra has done. I personally have no problem with what Jonathan dos Santos (or his brother for that matter) did. Jonathan didn't leave for nothing as a youth player. He stayed and tried to make it at Barca. But there's no shame in not making it here. We're one of the biggest clubs in the world. The length and terms of his contract were totally on our board. In any case, he's now playing for a top 6 side in one of the world's best leagues and seems to be doing just fine. Good luck to the lad.

On the second paragraph I'm not sure which Valencia players you're talking about. I hope it's not Alba or Mathieu as we paid to bring them here. I think you might be a little confused about Vietto. He isn't a youth player anymore. He's 21, and if we want him we'll certainly have to pay a transfer fee in respect to his contract with Villarreal.

No-one is saying youth players can't move to other academies if they can demonstrate they have the talent to necessitate such a move. However, I don't see why a club with a highly regarded youth system should be fine with investing a lot of time and effort on a local player, only to see them walk out the door as soon as the player can make some money elsewhere. For instance, I have no problem with what Thiago did. He stayed here and tried to make it even though he'd had offers to leave when he was younger. But, I was very, very disappointed our board bought Cesc Fabregas back. Thiago ultimately felt he wasn't getting the minutes he wanted so he left. He's now playing where he wants and we got a transfer fee. He certainly didn't ruin his career.

Besides that, let's not pretend that Arsenal is some paradise for youth prospects who all easily dance through their academy to claim permanent first team positions. Of their starting eleven against Liverpool yesterday (Ospina, Bellerin, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Monreal, Coquelin, Cazorla, Ramsey, Ozil, Alexis, Giroud) and the subs they brought on (Gabriel, Flamini, and Welbeck) the only ones who had spent time in Arsenal's youth system were Bellerin and Coquelin (and even he had been loaned out to multiple clubs). Being part of Arsenal's academy is not much more of a guarantee of a first team place than being part of la masia.

As for your last paragraph, neither Bartra nor Sergi Roberto have in any way, shape or form "ruined" their careers. Even if they decide to leave Barca this very summer they are both young enough to go on to have a lot of success elsewhere.

Regarding Bellerin, despite his obvious defensive flaws (he was a little lucky not to get sent off against Liverpool, and Man United for that matter) I think he has great potential. I don't ever want him back though. He could have repaid our faith in him with some faith in us, and if he'd decided at 20 or 21 he wasn't getting the minutes he needed he could have left with over a decade of his career in front of him and a great football education being him. Just my opinion.

So you have only minor nitpicks and restatement of what you said in the post i responded to and thus my post is a ''trainwreck''. k

Some remarks.
Barca has always lured perspective youth players from minor clubs too. Halilovic is the latest one. If you think Arsenal was ''stealing'' Cesc ir Bellerin, then please, apply the same standards to youngsters we shamelessly snatch from helpless victims of a clubs, ok.

La Masia like other youth academies is not a charity organization. It does its thing 100% in selfish interest of a club, not to help random young people become well paid entertainers. If you don't like how sometimes we loose some of the talent too early, enforce stricter rules about that. It is silly emo-farting to go ''boo hoo, he betrayed us''.

I wasn't implying that Arsenal has perfect youth system, but it sure is friendlier to young prospects in terms of having game time in the first squad. Barca has become Galactos2. Every position should be filled with super-mega-uber star, because others ''are not Barca level'' or so i constantly hear on this forum. Young Motta, Gabri, Oleguer would never even get promoted to first team today and Iniesta or Busquets would be thrown around on loans since they are 20 something and ''clearly finished''.
Regarding above mentioned it's perfectly understandable for someone like Bellerin (who wasn't considered that good to begin with) to try and go where he can play first team football and get experience behind his shoulders. Occurs he did the right thing. He's a regular starter at a top PL club at the age 19, while Bartra, who is almost 25 hasbarely made the first baby steps as a full time professional. I respect both of their decisions. I can understand that some value their sentiment towards the club more/less ambitions, but that's that. You are in no position to tutor them in to how to behave, just another whiny fan, while they are making life changing decisions.

 

[Gnidrologist]

We are paying huge amount for those Players.Your point makes no sense.

Real is paying even huger moneys and i hear constant complaining how they ruin careers or buy someone only because Barca was also interested. Have moneys, get blingm, yo. If paying big money is fair game, it is fair game for everybody.

 

[KingMessi]

Real is paying even huger moneys and i hear constant complaining how they ruin careers or buy someone only because Barca was also interested. Have moneys, get blingm, yo. If paying big money is fair game, it is fair game for everybody.

We "stole" from Valencia/Sevilla, but who did they "steal" those players from? There's no such thing as stealing a player. The players have free will and we, as one of Europe's elite, should do all we can to make sure our team is the best it can be. It's not up to us to make sure other teams stay competitive, they can take care of themselves.

 

[Robbie]

"It's great to play 'at home' and have everything where you've grown up, but sometimes you've got to get out of your comfort zone and discover new challenges."

"Wherever you are, you have to work hard. But if I had stayed in Barcelona I don't know if I would have got to the top, the elite."

(From an interview a few days ago)

If Bellerin had stayed, he would never have had the chance to prove himself. He would've been at Barca B, waiting for an injury crisis to allow him the opportunity to play with the first team. Instead, what could've happened is Barca going for someone like Serge Aurier or beating Madrid to Danilo's signature. Both are top class, young RBs who have gotten the world's attention by playing against top clubs and performing well. Bellerin now has the world's attention because he played vs the likes of City, Liverpool, Manchester United, etc. None of those clubs exist in the Segunda division, and he would forever be seen as just a 'youth player' if he didn't seize the opportunity.

But at least he'd have been 'loyal', right? Worked out so well for Jona Dos Santos and Sergi Roberto

 

[KingMessi]

Exactly. That's why I won't blame Bellerin for leaving when he did. His path to success was unclear, and he did what was best for his career.

 

[DonAK]

"It's great to play 'at home' and have everything where you've grown up, but sometimes you've got to get out of your comfort zone and discover new challenges."

"Wherever you are, you have to work hard. But if I had stayed in Barcelona I don't know if I would have got to the top, the elite."

(From an interview a few days ago)

If Bellerin had stayed, he would never have had the chance to prove himself. He would've been at Barca B, waiting for an injury crisis to allow him the opportunity to play with the first team. Instead, what could've happened is Barca going for someone like Serge Aurier or beating Madrid to Danilo's signature. Both are top class, young RBs who have gotten the world's attention by playing against top clubs and performing well. Bellerin now has the world's attention because he played vs the likes of City, Liverpool, Manchester United, etc. None of those clubs exist in the Segunda division, and he would forever be seen as just a 'youth player' if he didn't seize the opportunity.

But at least he'd have been 'loyal', right? Worked out so well for Jona Dos Santos and Sergi Roberto

Neither Jonathan dos Santos or Sergi Roberto were touted as the best prospect in their respective positions. Bellerin was one of the highest rated prospects in the entire academy.

 

[Gnidrologist]

We "stole" from Valencia/Sevilla, but who did they "steal" those players from? There's no such thing as stealing a player. The players have free will and we, as one of Europe's elite, should do all we can to make sure our team is the best it can be. It's not up to us to make sure other teams stay competitive, they can take care of themselves.

Exactly!
Also there is no such thing as ''betraying a club'', which is why all the hate against Thiago is juvenile butthurt. We can only hate the fact that he isn't playing for us. That's really sad.

 

[Robbie]

La Masia creates highly rated prospects every season. Nonetheless, he was still just a prospect. That wouldn't stop Enrique and Bartolomeu from buying a ready-made player that could slot right in.

I mean, look at how many amazing wingers and midfielders come from the academy. Maxi Rolon, Sergi Samper, etc. Hell, look at an amazing and immensely rated academy product like Thiago Alcantara waiting patiently for his turn, and getting rewarded by seeing Fabregas purchased and thrown in front of him. That didn't stop Enrique/Barto from buying Rakitic either, when there are plenty of great prospects to get from Barca B.

My point is, Barca fights for titles every year. That's their normal. Would Bellerin have been given a chance in that environment? Would he have had to wait longer? If he did get his chance, would they have tolerated his fuckups like with us vs Stoke and Dortmund? I guess the one advantage of us not having the expectations of the Madrids/Barcas/Bayerns is that Wenger is willing to take the chance on a young player who has proved nothing yet.

 

[KingMessi]

My point is, Barca fights for titles every year. That's their normal. Would Bellerin have been given a chance in that environment? Would he have had to wait longer? If he did get his chance, would they have tolerated his fuckups like with us vs Stoke and Dortmund? I guess the one advantage of us not having the expectations of the Madrids/Barcas/Bayerns is that Wenger is willing to take the chance on a young player who has proved nothing yet.

Thanks in advance for polishing Bellerin. When do you think we can come pick him up?

 

[Gasgas]

Gasgas definitely did and the examples Semi provided

Do the words "atrocious" and "crap" mean the same thing?

 

[KingMessi]

Do the words "atrocious" and "crap" mean the same thing?

They both have negative connotations, so in that sense they mean similar things.

 

[Robbie]

Thanks in advance for polishing Bellerin. When do you think we can come pick him up?

Maybe in 2-3 seasons if we aren't winning anything. In that case, it's probably making the best out of a bad situation, and the pricetag will be close to what Luke Shaw or Danilo went for.

But if we're title chasing and winning cups/placing higher in the champions league, he'll want to stay. It's all hypothetical, but I wouldn't be pissed if he at least performed well while wearing the Arsenal shirt (unlike RVP who was a waste of space sicknote for 7 years, wasting 7 chances to replace him with a fit striker)

 

[Alik]

 

[Deco 20]

La Masia creates highly rated prospects every season. Nonetheless, he was still just a prospect. That wouldn't stop Enrique and Bartolomeu from buying a ready-made player that could slot right in.

I mean, look at how many amazing wingers and midfielders come from the academy. Maxi Rolon, Sergi Samper, etc. Hell, look at an amazing and immensely rated academy product like Thiago Alcantara waiting patiently for his turn, and getting rewarded by seeing Fabregas purchased and thrown in front of him. That didn't stop Enrique/Barto from buying Rakitic either, when there are plenty of great prospects to get from Barca B.

My point is, Barca fights for titles every year. That's their normal. Would Bellerin have been given a chance in that environment? Would he have had to wait longer? If he did get his chance, would they have tolerated his fuckups like with us vs Stoke and Dortmund? I guess the one advantage of us not having the expectations of the Madrids/Barcas/Bayerns is that Wenger is willing to take the chance on a young player who has proved nothing yet.

While I agree with your points Maxi Rolón is far from one of the biggest talents at the club. He's perhaps the fifth best youth winger and one of the oldest.

 

[Robbie]

While I agree with your points Maxi Rolón is far from one of the biggest talents at the club. He's perhaps the fifth best youth winger and one of the oldest.

Ah, my mistake. He seemed a stand-out talent alongside Grimaldo, Samper, Toral and Bellerin from those old highlight clips. Anyways, how is Samper doing nowadays? From what I remember, he was the most talented player in that generation.