Ivan Rakitić

clemente

New member
Double Pivot MF of Frenkie and Arthur could work with this set-up

. . . . . . . . . . . Griezmann
Neymar . . . . . ��essi . . . . . . Dembele
. . . . . . .de Jong . . . . . . Arthur
Firpo . . . Pique . . Todibo . . . Semedo

For a top attack line-up, I'd go with

. . . . . . . . . . . . Icardi
Neymar . . . . . ��essi . . . . . . Dembele
. . . de Jong . . .Havertz . . . Griezmann
. . . Lenglet . . . Pique . . . Todibo . . .


giphy.gif

Waiting for that FIFA 20 I see
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
3 - Rakitic's only genuine outstanding quality is the fact he never gets injured. Hence his impressive number of games. It doesn't matter whether you play 5 minutes or the full 90, they all count the same under the umbrella of 'appearances'

Your posts sounds to me as if Rakitic didn't actually played the highest amount of minutes, but appearances with 5-10 minutes and similar.
Yet, Rakitic actually played more than Messi...

So, let's check those also:
2018/2019 minutes:
4680 Pique
4511 Alba
4291 Busi
4194 Raki
4105 Suarez
4024 Messi

Or midfielders:
4291 Busquets
4194 Rakitic
2658 Vidal
2470 Arthur
661 Alena

Also, what people collectively decided to forget, in the last 3-4 Months of the season, Arthur dropped down in EV's pecking order on the 5th place.
I posted numbers from the last 10-15 matches of the season, and Arthur was used even less than Alena in that period, behind Busi, Raki, Vidal, of course.

But, anyway, for me, it is insanely interesting "logic":
1. Raki was the 2nd most used midfielder (100 minutes less than Busi, probably because he was red carded in a match early in a season and needed to miss the next match, which is around 140 minutes missed).
2. Arthur was the 4th most used midfielder
3. in the last 2-3 Months of the season, Busi and Raki were the most used midfielders.
Arthur was the 5th choice in that period.
4. we have now bought one more world class midfielder.
A simple logic would imply:
These are possible pecking order scenarios:
1. Frenkie
2. Busi
3. Raki
4. Vidal
5. Arthur
6. Alena

Or:
1. Busi
2. Frenkie
3. Raki
4. Vidal
5. Arthur
6. Alena

Or:
1. Busi
2. Raki
3. Frenkie
4. Vidal
5. Arthur
6. Alena

Or:
1. Busi
2. Raki
3. Vidal
4. Frenkie
5. Arthur
6. Alena

Or, if Frenkie will flop:
1. Busi
2. Raki
3. Vidal
4. Arthur
5. Frenkie
6. Alena

So, it baffles me HOW in people's heads Arthur suddenly "jumped" 2 steps in the pecking order (over Raki and Vidal), lol?
Or even worse, when a season ended, he was EV's 5th pick.
And now we bought Frenkie, so he should be a 5th or 6th pick according to a last pecking order (from the end of a season).
Yet, people suddenly think that he will be a top3.

Who said Busi is beloved? People has been saying he is finished for two years now, calling for his head after each game.

Busi-Arthur-Frenkie is a favorite midfield lineup of majority of fans.
Between Busi and Raki, they will pick Busi since he is a legend, and more technical.
Frenkie and Arthur, two hottest favorites, with Dembele.
 
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mc_lovin

Senior Member
So the pecking order is set in stone? You want Rakitic-Busquets again? Which is proven failure? People prefer Busquets over Rakitic, because Frenkie looks more like a CM to some people (me included). But we will see where hes best.
 

EdmondDantes

New member
Sadly for you, we usually play 2-4 CL knockout matches per season.
And the rest of our season is: 38 league matches and CDR.
Where we usually play against weaker teams who park the bus and don't press too much and the only question is that matches is: whether we will score or not.

In those 50 matches, forum's beloved Busi-Frenkie-Arthur trio consisted of three pivots who had less goals and assists combined than the worst midfielder in the universe.

As I have posted yesterday:
Busquets: 47 matches last season, 0 goals, 2 assists
Arthur: 36 matches, 0 goals, 1 assist
Frenkie: 42 matches, 3 goals, 3 assists
= total: 3 goals, 6 assists

The worst midfielder in the history of universe:
= 46 matches, 4 goals, 7 assists

So, no, Busi-Frenkie-Arthur doesn't look too promising at all in terms of assists and goals.
And that is what we usually need against crappy La Liga teams.

If you are referring to Liverpool and Roma, fine, Arthur can play.
But as said, that will be 2-4 matches per season.

Don't forget that Arthur was subbed of a few times in a row in a spring at a half time when we were chasing the score, iirc against Espanyol home, Sociedad home and CDR Valencia.
NOT because EV is an idiot, but because Arthur for now offered absolutely nothing in attack and in the attacking third.

So, let's wait and see whether EV will play a 3 pivot midfield at home against Leganes when we will chase a win.
And that is not because he is an idiot.
Quite contrary...

You posted it twice and twice you've got it wrong.

Arthur got 2 assists, not 1.

If you're getting your basic stats wrong, how can we trust the rest of your numbers?


As for the rest of your post, I like how you have now conceded defeat on your claim of Rakitic being a must-start 'workhorse' in the team who is tactically reliable, disciplined, etc, etc as you continuously said in the past. On the evidence of Rakitic's performance over the entirety of the past season, that doesn't even come close to holding water. So your next claim is the fact that Rakitic gets 'more goals and assists than the other 3' (Busquets, Frenkie & Arthur).


But there's a simple logic to it that you seem to be deliberately overlooking. And it doesn't have anything to do with Rakitic's brilliance, but for the fact he plays further forward than the other 3.

Rakitic plays on the right side of a midfield 3, the same side that Messi deserts during games (since he supposedly starts at RW), Rakitic fills that hole, while the other 2 midfielders hold, especially since Alba is always bombing forward on the left side.

Player plays further forward in a high scoring team, said player ends up more involved in stats like goals & assists. It's the same with Vidal, who even spent a lot of time in the box next to Suarez. Coutinho played in midfield a bit, then even further forward, hence, despite being rubbish, he was involved in 11 goals and however many assists....


As for Arthur's level dropping, it did indeed, he had 4 injuries, especially in the latter part of last season he was playing whilst managing a groin injury - on top of the other 3 hamstrings injuries he had. For a young player, it is worrying sign, but he now seemed fine and recovered in the Copa America. He should be back to his level again.

-
Here are two Diario Sport journalists discussing Arthur's groin injury:


[youtube]DhH476O6eg4[/youtube]

7:30

(...) Arthur, un jugador que termina la temporada con problemas en el pubis...

"A player that ends the season with a problem in his pubis/groin"

-

As for your other claim that it's just people here in this message board that prefer a midfield trio of Frenkie-Busi-Arthur, well; look at Mister Seitan's latest video and see for yourself we're not alone.

He's Barca's #1 Youtube personality, journalist and Catalan as well:

[youtube]O3_p-CM8dDA[/youtube]

Talking about Antoine, but using his preferred formation - with Busquets, Frenkie & Arthur as starters

-

For me, Rakitic should spend his last season here as a squad player - and that should help him get back to his level.


With Valverde here he's become lazy, arrogant and putridly unlikeable.


What he said about De Jong left me speechless. You'd think he was the Ronaldo of midfielders with the stuff that's been coming out of his mouth, and not the unequivocal disappointment he was last season, and even the season before.


But for whatever reason, people like you are fine with not only more of the same, but also the continuity of stale, failed mediocrity. However, I am not.
 
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Xaviniesta

Senior Member

Oh wow, those 3 goals from rakitic in la liga. What a clutch player. As we all know, his goals have unlocked defenses. Now lets take a closer look at those 3 goals.

-Barca vs Huesca: scored the 5th goal in an 8-2 victory. WOW, so clutch.
-Barca vs Sevilla: scored the 4th goal when it was 3-1 in 88th minute. WOW, so clutch.
-Madrid vs Barca: scored the only goal in a 1-0 victory. His rare good performance in 38 games. But then again, Madrid are not a parked bus team, so that doesn't fit your narrative.
-Almost all his assists are late in the match when we are comfortably winning by 2,3, or 4 goals. You can go check them on the trasnfermarkt site. Cant be arsed to write it for you.

So, if we base his performances on BBZ stats alone, his attacking contribution is useless for 30/38 games in La liga. But dont forget, stats dont tell the whole picture. Because those who watch the games know he lacks much more.

But the way you speak, you make it sound as if his goals were soooooo crucial to our la liga win :lol:

I also like how you didn't include Vidal in your stats, who is a CM like him. He has already contributed same goals and assists (3g and 7assists) in less minutes than Rakitic. And he is a much better defensively too.

But you chose to compare Rakitic, a CM, with Busquets a DM. Nice narrative you got there. :cool:
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
BBZ is the only one out there still white knighting good ole Frauditic.

Even [MENTION=22463]Joan[/MENTION] gave up and disappeared after Anfield. :lol::lol:
 

serghei

Senior Member
Keeping this guy and not sacking Valverde is asking for trouble. It's like handing a gasoline tank to a serial arsonist.
 

Arizona Scott

New member
The point is not that Rakitic is a offensive juggernaut, but it is that compared to Frenkie, Arthur and Busi he does offer more punch in the final 3rd. It is all relative to alternatives, it isn't like we have KDB sitting on the bench. A light punch is better than no punch depending on the other trade offs. Vidal also can be a threat in the final 3rd (in terms of goals or assists) but for now we were comparing the other 3. personally I think Busi should be dropped at least equally as Rakitic, and our midfield might well be better with Rakitic or Vidal pairing with de Jong and Arthur than Busquets with those two. This is a perfectly appropriate position and anyone who says they absolutely know who are idea midfield is, is well, full of it. Nobody knows until we see the combinations play--we could even see Coutinho or Griezmann as the most advanced midfielder with 2 of the others discussed above.

Rakitic contributes to the midfield and overall pace problems, yes, and is really exposed if we face a Liverpool or a City. However it is highly disproportionate and bordering on obsession/insanity the degree folks think he is that much more significantly of a problem than half a handful of other players too, and once he is gone our problems will dissappear.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
So the pecking order is set in stone? You want Rakitic-Busquets again? Which is proven failure? People prefer Busquets over Rakitic, because Frenkie looks more like a CM to some people (me included). But we will see where hes best.

Proven failure for a CL quarters and semis level, true.
In La Liga, that duo won 4 La Ligas in the last 5 years.

People will got mad, but for a CL semis level, from a recent sample:
Suarez sucks
Alba sucks
Mats can't save anything
Messi scores almost never in any KO match away from Camp Nou...

But let's keep a narrative that only Rakishit is guilty for everything in a CL failures.

You posted it twice and twice you've got it wrong.

Arthur got 2 assists, not 1.

If you're getting your basic stats wrong, how can we trust the rest of your numbers?

Yeah, I got it wrong.
Even though Whoscored says:
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/284114/History/Arthur

Arthur:
La Liga 1441 minutes, 0 goals, 1 assist
CL 567 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

Also, I love your alibies how Arthur doesn't actually suck in attack.
He just plays deeper...

Yet, Arthur's whole career till now:
76 matches: 2 goals, 3 assists
= 1 goal each 38 matches, aka once per season
= 1 assist each 25 matches

Rakitic, whole career:
422 matches, 65 goals, 67 assists
= 1 goal each 6,5 matches
= 1 assist each 6,3 matches

Also, Xaviniesta made fun of Rakitic's goals this season.
Fine.

Before we continue, first let's take a look at a compilation of Arthur's goals for Barca this season:

Now, you have Rakitic's accidental goals for Barca in his first 4 seasons:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-pxCtUS5I8
 

mc_lovin

Senior Member
Its probably not fair to only single out the midfield in recent failures. But Rakitic @Anfield has to be one of the worst midfield performances I have ever seen from a "Barcelona quality" starting cm. Our midfield vs Roma just crumbled under pressure as well.

Its quite interesting how your narrative changed from success in CL to league performances. Because its quite clear whos - in theory - better vs strong pressing teams.
 

Zidane82

Well-known member
The point is not that Rakitic is a offensive juggernaut, but it is that compared to Frenkie, Arthur and Busi he does offer more punch in the final 3rd. It is all relative to alternatives, it isn't like we have KDB sitting on the bench. A light punch is better than no punch depending on the other trade offs. Vidal also can be a threat in the final 3rd (in terms of goals or assists) but for now we were comparing the other 3. personally I think Busi should be dropped at least equally as Rakitic, and our midfield might well be better with Rakitic or Vidal pairing with de Jong and Arthur than Busquets with those two. This is a perfectly appropriate position and anyone who says they absolutely know who are idea midfield is, is well, full of it. Nobody knows until we see the combinations play--we could even see Coutinho or Griezmann as the most advanced midfielder with 2 of the others discussed above.

Rakitic contributes to the midfield and overall pace problems, yes, and is really exposed if we face a Liverpool or a City. However it is highly disproportionate and bordering on obsession/insanity the degree folks think he is that much more significantly of a problem than half a handful of other players too, and once he is gone our problems will dissappear.

When does Rakitic offer anything in the final third ( discounting THAT volleyed goal that took EVERYONE by surprise !! )

My undying memory of Rakitic will be of him standing on the right near the half way line ... receiving the ball ... taking a touch or two , slowing things right down then casually ( sometimes carelessly) passing it back to Pique !!!
 
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BBZ8800

Senior Member
When does Rakitic offer anything in the final third ( discounting THAT volleyed goal that took EVERYONE by surprise !!

My undying memory of Rakitic will be of him standing on the right near the half way line ... receiving the ball ... taking a touch or two , slowing things right down then casually ( sometimes carelessly) passing it back to Pique !!!

You probably blinked in those moments.
In these 5 years, Rakitic has:
35 goals
29 assists for Barca (Cdr not included in assists stats)

So basically, you blinked 64 times when he scored or assisted ;)
 

Zidane82

Well-known member
You probably blinked in those moments.
In these 5 years, Rakitic has:
35 goals
29 assists for Barca (Cdr not included in assists stats)

So basically, you blinked 64 times when he scored or assisted ;)
What about the important last two years ??

Let’s see those figures

Then the last season alone ..
 
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messi2140

6racies Xavi
You probably blinked in those moments.
In these 5 years, Rakitic has:
35 goals
29 assists for Barca (Cdr not included in assists stats)

So basically, you blinked 64 times when he scored or assisted ;)

And you only open your eyes when he scores or gives an assist and go back to closing them when he plays hide and seek
 

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