Ivan Rakitić

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
Ok, but why do you mention this "thinking himself as a God"?

If we are honest, let's check our team:
1. Messi thinks that he is a God. He runs when he wants. He sulks when he wants. He plays on a position which he wants. He is asking the board to sign Neymar. He is deciding whether a coach will go or not. Doesn't want to get rested, doesn't listen to coaches with a long term plans of rotations to keep him fresh in spring.
2. Suarez thinks he is a God. He also doesn't want to rest. Yells at everyone. A part of Club de Amigos. Asked for a fkng Neymar. Wanted a coach to stay, since they don't have to run too much on training grounds.
3. Busquets? Lol. He probably think that he is a walking God among humans. The only remaining part of a Xavi-Iniesta-Busi trio. Rarely says that he played bad. Doing tons of mistakes on a field. Walking and jogging, playing half arsed all the time.
4. Pique, similar.
5. Umtiti, a weird dude. Quite young, but already in 2018 started to act like a God when he wanted a new contract. Probably thinks that he is the best defender in the world.

I mean, your posts sound as if Raki is the only guy doing this, while majority of our older players are the same.
They don't run anymore. They play half arsed. They run when they want, they walk when they want.
They have an insane wages, they want to play all the time. They DO play all the time.
They act as living legends, and as if fans should be grateful for being able to watch and witness their greatness every weekend.

Name one older player who is here for 5 years or longer and who doesn't act like an entitled asshole.

Again, I have wrote before, we are paying the price of our success in the last decade.
In the past, we have never been successful for that long.
And it was easy to make a generation change.

In late 90s, we only won 2 La Ligas, it was easy to try with new players and turn the page.
In early 00s, we haven't won anything, it was easy to sell everyone and hire Rijkaard, Ronnie, Etoo and Deco.
They won 2 La ligas and 1 CL in 5 years, which is nice, but nowhere near Messi's prime years.
So, it was easier to get rid of Rijkaard and his team and build a new, Pep's team.
Ronnie, Deco, Guily, Larssson, Edmilson, Gio were old, drained and LESS motivated as in 2003-2004, when we started a cycle.

So, again, in 2003 or 2004, we started a cycle with Rijkaard and a core were young, hungry, motivated players like:
2004:
Ronnie 24
Etoo 23 (or 2-3 years older since he lied with age)
Xavi 24
Iniesta 20
Puyol 26
Valdes 22
Marquez 25

And the oldest starters were:
Gio 29
Edmilson 28
Guily 28
Belletti 28
Deco 27

So, we turned the page and majority of our team were youngsters aged 23-24 like Ronnie, Etoo, Xavi.
NOBODY was older than 29 years.
So, we started a cycle with nobody aged 30.

Then, of course that this team who had all required ingredients (a good president, a good sporting director, a good coach, some La Masia gems, and a lot of good players bought aged 23-28)=started a new cycle.
Remember, only one player (Deco) in that team had 1 CL title.
Of course that our players were hungry and that they were giving 120%.

What happened after 4-5 years?
Ronnie turned 28 and lost motivation after winning CLs and Ballon D Ors.
Deco was already 31.
Etoo was almost 30 in real age.
Xavi 28.
Edmilson 32.
Guily 32.
Belletti 32.
Gio 33.

So, our team aged, and lots motivation.
And of course that we turned into shit.

Then Pep came and did the same thing which Rijkaard did:
Sold all drained superstars from a former era and built a new young team.
We lost: Ronnie 28, Etoo, 30-ish, Deco 31, Edmilson 32, Guily 32, Henry 33 left soon, Thuram 36, Zambrotta 31.

And Pep has built a new team around young Iniesta 24, Busi 21, Messi 22, Pique 22, Pedro 21.

And now, 10 years later, for the first time in our history, we have a team which dominated for 10 or 15 years.
And it is hard to get rid of those legends. We never had these problems in the past.
I mean, Messi is still good, but imagine problems in 2-3 years when a moment will come that he won't be good enough anymore to be a starter (and that moment will come one day), and he will still be on 100M gross wages.
What will we do then? How can you bench Messi?
How can you tell him?= you are not good enough anymore. And some random kid should play instead of you.

The same is already happening with Raki, Suarez, Busi, soon with Alba, Pique.

I know that you guys hate only EV, but imo, our team was NEVER in problems as today:
1. we never had THIS MANY old, unmotivated players.
LA Masia is dry.
And new kids are mostly bad (Dembele, Malcom, Semedo), except Frenkie and maybe Arthur.

Also, just look at Liverpool and City.
Pep and Klopp didn't build their new teams around 30 years old drained superstars.
But around 23-26 years old players, like Rijkaard in 2003 and Pep in 2008.

So, I don't think that a team will move forward when a cancer Raki will leave or when EV will leav, but when we will truly turn the page and start to build a new team.
But for that, we will need a new president, a new sporting director and a new coach.
Since a current board will either buy a shit frauds like Neymar for 200M, or horrible youngsters like Dembele, Malcom, Denis, Gomes, Paco and similar.

This board can't do right anything.

For the end of a post, regarding motivation: remember our team of zombies losing to Juve, Roma, Liverpool in the last 3 years.
Without any motivation or a spark.

Then go back and take a look at body language, emotions, happiness of our team in 2006 when we weren't a team of complacent museum grannies.
Can you still see a similar spark in the eyes of Messi, Suarez, Busquets, Rakitic today? I can't:
Look at a pure, childish, sincere happiness after a winning goal:

Great post and the lack of hunger from the old group is concerning. They are too happy What They won already.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Lol comparing Messi to Rakitic.

If there was a way to get Messi at his peak for another 10 years, the entire City of Barcelona would get together and sacrifice Rakitic to the Lord of Light.

The fact that you are comparing the Greatest player of All-time, or at worst a top 3 player of all-time, ever since we started playing football more than a century ago, to a guy that doesn't get into the top 10 Barcelona Midfielders of all-time, just says it all about you @BBZ8800.

Stop making a mockery out of yourself please. You're better than that.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Lol comparing Messi to Rakitic.

If there was a way to get Messi at his peak for another 10 years, the entire City of Barcelona would get together and sacrifice Rakitic to the Lord of Light.

The fact that you are comparing the Greatest player of All-time, or at worst a top 3 player of all-time, ever since we started playing football more than a century ago, to a guy that doesn't get into the top 10 Barcelona Midfielders of all-time, just says it all about you @BBZ8800.

Stop making a mockery out of yourself please. You're better than that.

It doesn't matter how good player you were at your peak.
You are either complacent or not.

Ronaldinho and Deco lost their hunger in 2007 and were shipped away.
Ronaldinho is probably in top3 players of all time whom we had.
Was he complacent?
Did he lost hunger from early years?

I am not sure why are you guys so sensitive when someone mentions Messi.
Messi is still awesome, but his motivation is miles from what it used to be 7-10 years ago.

The only alibi which you could offer is:
Raki is shit and there is no place for him to be complacent, since he shouldn't be a starter at all.
While even a complacent Messi is by far our best player.

I can agree with you there.
But the point of my post is: people whine in this topic as if Raki is the only player in the history of Barcelona who turned complacent in 30s.
Or who lost motivation and similar.

Suarez is not his former self in terms of drive.
Busi, the same.
Pique, the same.
MESSI, THE SAME. Even though he is still the best even with lower motivation.
And since people are black and white here, before someone replies: Messi is motivated! Have you seen him in this or that match...
Well, in general, Messi is way less motivated since he became a father and after his mysterious illness a few years ago.

So, Raki is not Messi.
I don't have a CR7 shirt while writing this post.

The point is: the same as how some players gets unreal over the top hype, Raki is now the most hated player in the last 10 years and everything is multiplied 10 times regarding him.
Remember the first training session when Dembele nutmegged Griezz.
Back then Dembele was still loved and one guy who liked your post wrote: Omg, Black Prince, unreal etc.
I have posted: in the 2nd part of a video Rakitic has also nutmegged Griezz. Is he also a Prince now and unreal?
That user replied: No. Nobody cares about Rakitic, he is shit.
So, 2 nutmeggs:
1. one guy is a prinze
2. the 2nd guy is shit
Sums it all, regarding my reply about Raki, other teammates and complacency.

More or less, that is the point of my post.
You guys make it sound as if he is the only complacent player ever.
or the only player ever who is past his prime and is not willing to leave a club.
Half of our core is in the similar shoes, but he is singled out and multiplied by 10x.
Yet, he wanted to leave a club and you have 4-5 players in a similar situation as his.
 
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soul24rage

Senior Member
You could argue in other seasons Messi was 'complacent', but I would say that Messi was very motivated to win the CL last season;

Probably more than in his early 20s with last season being his first season as captain and RM's threepeat.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Any chance he loses ground for the Croatian national team as well?

They seem to be doing well without him.

Lol, your hate is very strong.

Regarding Rakitic, he probably doesn't want to play for an NT anymore.
Regarding Croatia playing good, a few players stopped playing like Subasic, Mandzukic, Corluka, now probably Rakitic.
It was a problem in the first few matches until a team readjusted, but now it seems that it clicked better.
Yesterday there was no Rakitic and there was no injured Kovacic, whom a lot of Croatian fans don't like because he is slowing down the play and dwells on ball.

Croatia played in a 4231, which seems to be quite popular and efficient lately.
And how did Croatia play?
Well, something like Ajax from the last season:
Possession only 52%. But extremely fast actions, no dwelling on a ball. No unneeded possession in midfield.
2 midfielders Modric and Brozovic were used mostly to get the ball out of the box and pass it as FAST AS POSSIBLE to 2 wingers (Perisic and Rebic) or to a CAM young Vlasic.

I am personally starting to like 4231 more and more.
From how I see it, in 433, the main goal is to control and build from midfield, through the middle, with 3 midfielders.
If it works=then fine.
But if it doesn't work, problems occur.

In 4231, 2 midfielders have 4 attacking passing options (Lw, Cam, Rw and a CF) plus 2 fullbacks.
Also, Croatia's Lw, Cam and Rw were all very mobile and very fast (Perisic, Vlasic, Rebic), just like guys from Ajax.
And for years, we haven't seen Croatia playing THIS fast and creating as much chances.
But again, chances weren't coming from a slow possession play vs parked buses, but mostly from a fast transition and from counters.
Whenever Slovakia would lose a ball, Croatia would get to their box in 2-3 passes in 3 seconds.
Unlike Barca's style where we need 45 seconds to get from our box to the opponent's box.

Also, another interesting thing:
Lw, Cam, Rw were all fast and mobile and it offered 100s of passing options to pivots Modric and Brozovic.
At Barca, we don't have a RW (Messi), and a LW is not a LW and is slow (Griezmann).
Not to mention that we don't have a CAM who is fast and who can move a lot.

Further, pressing.
Croatia was taking balls from Slovakia for fun.
Just like Ajax.
Ok, Croatia has a good coach.
But again, an important thing is: 4 mobile forwards who are young (except Perisic, but he can run like a madman).
Also, a difference in pressing between 433 and 4231 is that in 4231, you have 4 players applying pressure high up the pitch and forcing the opponents to lose balls.
In 433: you have ONLY 3 players applying pressure, and then someone from midfield like Raki; Arthur or Busi need to press high which leaves gaps.

I am slowly starting to lean towards: it is hard to play extremely fast with 433 in 2020'.
In 90s, 352 with CAM was a goat formation.
CRujff played 343 with a Dream Team.
Later it was 442.
Then a Christmas tree 4321.
Later came 433.
Maybe 4231 is the next big thing? I know that a lot of things play it for years, but still... you get my point...

Croatia was good at World cup with 433, but we never really dominated.
It was always 0:0, 1:1 and penalties and similar.

Yesterday, only 48:52 possession.
But 9:22 shots on goal. And Croatia could have scored like 10 goals. We have hit a post a few times and had several fast 1 vs 1 clear chances.
It was really like watching Ajax, other guys like [MENTION=2]Barcaman[/MENTION], [MENTION=14062]Gaudi[/MENTION] [MENTION=20770]Raketa10[/MENTION] [MENTION=19742]vlad[/MENTION] and others can add a few more thoughts...

Imo, there is something really magical and Ajax-esque in 4231 if executed properly with a right coach and technical (and mobile, athletic, young, smart, hardworking and motivated) players.
 
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JerseyAddict

Well-known member
Croatia totaly rocked yesterday. It was a total dominaton... When you proper mix senior players that WANT to play with young hungry players.

The one important thing is... No one "choked" the ball with long solo plays and "skillzz".

When you watch Modric how he controls the game... Passes around and dictates the teamplay... Then you know why he was one of the key parts of RM success.

Rakitic has a big problem now. Young kids have taken an attitude. His place in not secure now after second "cancelation" to the NT.

He really needs to think about either he will play all the time and with heart like he did on WC or he can just call the break and leave like a legend. Which he in CRO is.
 

JerseyAddict

Well-known member
[MENTION=19222]xXKonan[/MENTION]

There's no reason for the likes of Dembele, Rakitic, Todibo, Semedo, Coutinho, etc should get shit by anyone for refusing to go to Paris so we can bail out Neymar. Doesn't fucking matter if we spent the money wrong, Those don't deserve to get shit on by fans because they didn't want to go to Paris so Neymar can get a Do over.

Neymar should put on his big boy pants, and deal with the fact he made a mistake and he has to live with it and work and hope maybe in the following summer we have the money to buy him instead of trying to forcefully use players as bargaining chips.

This. Great post.

Why is anyone to blame for Neymar decisions but Neymar himself? Why should any player go to the club he doesn't want to bail Neymar out? It is out of place to call any Barça player names cause of Neymars errors. He needs to clear his own mess.
 

MTL_Barca

Well-known member
Lol, your hate is very strong.

Regarding Rakitic, he probably doesn't want to play for an NT anymore.
Regarding Croatia playing good, a few players stopped playing like Subasic, Mandzukic, Corluka, now probably Rakitic.
It was a problem in the first few matches until a team readjusted, but now it seems that it clicked better.
Yesterday there was no Rakitic and there was no injured Kovacic, whom a lot of Croatian fans don't like because he is slowing down the play and dwells on ball.

Croatia played in a 4231, which seems to be quite popular and efficient lately.
And how did Croatia play?
Well, something like Ajax from the last season:
Possession only 52%. But extremely fast actions, no dwelling on a ball. No unneeded possession in midfield.
2 midfielders Modric and Brozovic were used mostly to get the ball out of the box and pass it as FAST AS POSSIBLE to 2 wingers (Perisic and Rebic) or to a CAM young Vlasic.

I am personally starting to like 4231 more and more.
From how I see it, in 433, the main goal is to control and build from midfield, through the middle, with 3 midfielders.
If it works=then fine.
But if it doesn't work, problems occur.

In 4231, 2 midfielders have 4 attacking passing options (Lw, Cam, Rw and a CF) plus 2 fullbacks.
Also, Croatia's Lw, Cam and Rw were all very mobile and very fast (Perisic, Vlasic, Rebic), just like guys from Ajax.
And for years, we haven't seen Croatia playing THIS fast and creating as much chances.
But again, chances weren't coming from a slow possession play vs parked buses, but mostly from a fast transition and from counters.
Whenever Slovakia would lose a ball, Croatia would get to their box in 2-3 passes in 3 seconds.
Unlike Barca's style where we need 45 seconds to get from our box to the opponent's box.

Also, another interesting thing:
Lw, Cam, Rw were all fast and mobile and it offered 100s of passing options to pivots Modric and Brozovic.
At Barca, we don't have a RW (Messi), and a LW is not a LW and is slow (Griezmann).
Not to mention that we don't have a CAM who is fast and who can move a lot.

Further, pressing.
Croatia was taking balls from Slovakia for fun.
Just like Ajax.
Ok, Croatia has a good coach.
But again, an important thing is: 4 mobile forwards who are young (except Perisic, but he can run like a madman).
Also, a difference in pressing between 433 and 4231 is that in 4231, you have 4 players applying pressure high up the pitch and forcing the opponents to lose balls.
In 433: you have ONLY 3 players applying pressure, and then someone from midfield like Raki; Arthur or Busi need to press high which leaves gaps.

I am slowly starting to lean towards: it is hard to play extremely fast with 433 in 2020'.
In 90s, 352 with CAM was a goat formation.
CRujff played 343 with a Dream Team.
Later it was 442.
Then a Christmas tree 4321.
Later came 433.
Maybe 4231 is the next big thing? I know that a lot of things play it for years, but still... you get my point...

Croatia was good at World cup with 433, but we never really dominated.
It was always 0:0, 1:1 and penalties and similar.

Yesterday, only 48:52 possession.
But 9:22 shots on goal. And Croatia could have scored like 10 goals. We have hit a post a few times and had several fast 1 vs 1 clear chances.
It was really like watching Ajax, other guys like [MENTION=2]Barcaman[/MENTION], [MENTION=14062]Gaudi[/MENTION] [MENTION=20770]Raketa10[/MENTION] [MENTION=19742]vlad[/MENTION] and others can add a few more thoughts...

Imo, there is something really magical and Ajax-esque in 4231 if executed properly with a right coach and technical (and mobile, athletic, young, smart, hardworking and motivated) players.

Some years ago i read something about Van Gaal preferring 4231 to 433 and i think one of the main reasons was building triangles is easier/more natural if the players are positioned like that. I think it was in his book, but not sure.

But overall it doesn't matter that much anyway, it still mostly comes down to how the team moves as a whole and what players are used. Also i don't remember 433 ever was that widely used anyway. Iirc after teams transitioned to 4 in the back they used 442 and then there was the switch to 4231 what became the sort of default system. If anything i'd say revisiting 3/5 in the back is more of a "modern" trend because that was almost dead outside of Italy for quite some time and in the last couple years a lot coaches went back to it including Pep, Tuchel etc.

I think there isn't really a formation that stands out, i'd say in the future it'll be more about having a lot of flexible players to not be cought up in a formation both during the game and when building the squad. 433 isn't the current problem of Barca, its the team and the coach in combination that would make it look more or less the same no matter if its 433 4231 352 or 442.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Some years ago i read something about Van Gaal preferring 4231 to 433 and i think one of the main reasons was building triangles is easier/more natural if the players are positioned like that. I think it was in his book, but not sure.

But overall it doesn't matter that much anyway, it still mostly comes down to how the team moves as a whole and what players are used. Also i don't remember 433 ever was that widely used anyway. Iirc after teams transitioned to 4 in the back they used 442 and then there was the switch to 4231 what became the sort of default system. If anything i'd say revisiting 3/5 in the back is more of a "modern" trend because that was almost dead outside of Italy for quite some time and in the last couple years a lot coaches went back to it including Pep, Tuchel etc.

I think there isn't really a formation that stands out, i'd say in the future it'll be more about having a lot of flexible players to not be cought up in a formation both during the game and when building the squad. 433 isn't the current problem of Barca, its the team and the coach in combination that would make it look more or less the same no matter if its 433 4231 352 or 442.

Why should we need ONLY ONE scapegoat?

It doesn't have to be only Rakitic.
Or EV.

Reasons are more likely:
1. EV
2. Barto
3. Raki
4. core players are old
5. core players are not motivated
6. old players can't run anymore
7. old players and Messi are not moving that much off the ball
8. our team in general is very slow
9. 433

I don't agree with people who think that we will fly without EV or without Raki.
We will be better, surely.
But we have millions of problems.

Regarding 433, I have some feeling and it makes me want to bang my head on the wall, when people act as if it a Godlike formation.
And everything in the world and regarding Barca can change, but 433 should never change.
Since, according to fans, especially guys in early 20s who grew up with Pep and his Barca=that 433 is the only way to go, and the way how Pep played is the only way to go.

Since I am a little older and I grew up in early 90s, this is how winning formations changed over time:
late 80s/early 90s:
Mexico 86 final:
Argentina: 352
Germany: 352

Euro 88:
Netherlands: 442 flat
Russia: 442 flat

Italy 90 final:
Germany: 352
Argentina: 352

Euro 92 final:
Denmark: 352 with Cam
Germany: 352 with Cam

Usa 94 final:
Brasil: 442 or 4222
Italy: 442 flat

Euro 96:
Germany: 352
Czech: 3331

France 98:
France: 4321 Christmas tree
Brasil: 4222

Euro 2000:
France: 4231
Italy: 352

Japan 2002:
Brasil: 352 with Cam
Germany: 352 with Cam

Euro 2004:
Greece: 433
Portugal: 4231

World Cup 2006:
Italy: 442
France: 4231

Euro 2008:
Spain: 451
Germany: 4231

World cup 2010:
Spain: 433
Netherlands: 4231

Euro 2012:
Spain: 433
Italy: 442

World Cup 2014:
Germany: 4231
Argentina: 442

Euro 2016:
Portugal: 442
France: 442

World Cup 2018:
France: 4231
Croatia: 4231

*****************************
*****************************
Now, let's look by formations, how many times they were played over years:
442 flat:
1988 Netherlands
1988 Russia
1994 Italy
2006 Italy
2012 Italy
2014 Argentina
2016 Portugal
2016 France

352:
1986 Argentina
1986 Germany
1990 Germany
1990 Argentina
1992 Denmark
1992 Germany
1996 Germany
2000 Italy
2002 Brasil
2002 Germany

4231:
2000 France
2004 Portugal
2006 France
2008 Germany
2010 Netherlands
2014 Germany
2018 France
2018 Croatia

433:
2004 Greece
2008 Spain, more or less
2010 Spain
2012 Spain

Now, look at what I am trying to say: in different eras, DIFFERENT formations and styles are the winning ones.
I remember in 90s, when everyone played 352, then suddenly 442 became "a killer" of 352 because you had 2+2 players on flanks vs 1+1 wing backs in 352.
And 442 started to kill 352.
Teams with 352 tried to keep the ball and possession, but whenever they would lose the ball, teams with 442 would kill them on wings.
And once when this was figured out, there was NO WAY BACK. 352 was dead.
From 1986-2002, 10 finalists played with 352.
Since 2002, in the next 16 years, no finalists played 352 again.
It was abandoned till 2-3 years ago...
Why has it returned? Well, because everything 352 today has some virtues to kill current 433 and 4231.

So:
1. everyone played 352
2. then teams with 442 started to kill teams with 352 due to 2+2 wingers and advantage on wings and counters.
3. but then again, teams wanted MORE man in midfield to win a battle against 442 (2 midfielders), and yet to have 2+2 wingers.
So, the next move in the evolution was: sacrifice 1 attacker and create 442+extra midfielder, which turned into 451 (4231) and 433.
4. and then around 2000, teams started to play with only 1 Fc (France was the first).
Imo, 433 and 4231 are sister formations. Except that 433 is more based on possession, while 4231 is more about direct and faster football from French and German NT.

Now, that thing which bothers me with our fans and people on this forum, who constantly say: 433 is fine (and more or less: 433 will be fine even in 200 years, since it is the best formation ever).
Then I would like to ask you a few question:
1. why has 352 died after 90s and wasn't sued after 2002'
Once it was a GOAT formation, and then it totally died and became extremely weak and easy to neutralize.
People on this forum would reply: it is not about formations, it is about HOW YOU MOVE...
Lol.
But movement didn't help to 352 after 2000's.
No matter how good players you had or how well you moved, it was dead and everyone knew the trick to win against it.

I have made similar analogies with 433 lots of times here and asked: don't you think that it is possible that opponents figured out 433 over time?
A reply is always the same (and makes me want to bang my head into a wall): No. 433 is fine. Everything is fine. We just don't move or press like we used to.

So, basically, 10s of formations and tactics which were GOAT in one moment in history, turned to shit later and teams have abandoned it.
Yet, that can never happen to a 433 :lol:
That formation/style=can't be figured out, you can't defend against it, AS LONG AS you execute it perfectly.

Again, 352 was the same GOAT formation in 80s and 90s.
And then turned into a joke.

442 was awesome for a few years in late 90s (Man Utd) and in early 00s since it was a deadly cure against 352s.
But then 4231 and 433s kicked ass out of 442 (Like Barca:Man Utd finals) since 442 always had a men less in midfield and TikiTaka looked like fun against 2 CMs from 442.
But then, when teams switched from 442 to 4231 and 433, then a 3-men TikiTaka wasn't as effective as against 442.
But people will simplify it and say: no. We just run less and don't press like we used to. Lol.

In short, for the end:
1. teams and football evolve all the time
2. what looks like a GOAT tactics in one moment, may be a total shit 5 or 10 years later
3. no formation ever managed to survive the evolution of their opponents. So, 433 won't be the first either.
4. also, I don't agree with that part: it is about HOW you move.

Anyway, people will get offended with my post.
Because, for majority, the idea of Barca is: do everything you can to copy EXACTLY the same how Pep played.
Let's try to find new Xavi and new Iniesta.

For me, it is: let's try to find what works perfectly in this moment, in 2019. Since it is not 2009 anymore.

Also, about movement, there is no way that Croatia would be able to play this way in 433.
Midfielders are just too deep in 433.
In 4231, with CAM; you have an extra men around the box.
That's just an extra man around the box.

Also, there is a tendency in 433 lately to turn one winger in a silent striker, as the next step in the evolution.
Why?
Again: the goal is to get a new advantage, the "12th player" against your opponent.
In 433, you have 2 wingers and 1 Cf. Only 1 man in the box or around the box.
If you turn one winger into a hybrid of a winger&CF, you get, to some extent: 434 with: winger-Cf-Cf-winger around the box.
Real Madrid won 4 CLs with 2 men in the box with CR7 (hybrid of a winger&CF) and CF Benzema.
France won a World cup with: CF Giroud, winger Mbappe and hybrid Griezmann (CF&winger&silent striker).
None of those teams had 2 pure wingers and 1 attack.
So, I would say that 1 winger, 1 CF and 1 hybrid is the next level in 4231 and in 433.

So, again, my point is that teams are evolving all the time and they are trying to find new tricks to gain the advantage on a field with the 12th player.
Yet, here, (just look at replies to this post later, lol), people will reply like brainwashed: no. 433 is fine. It is perfect when executed perfectly, lol.
They don't want to listen about 4231, about hybrid attacker in 433 and 4231 etc.
They'll reply: we just need a carbon copy of Xavi and Iniesta, and everything will be fine. The time and evolution doesn't exist on planet Barca.
 

JohnN

Senior Member
With Messi and Suarez in their mid 20s I would like to see that. We can't use them like this at this stage. Also better with no Dembele there.
This team will need some overhauling, but we could still use our seniors to their full potential, if they are paced throughout the year and surrounded by our young and most talented players.
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
> Writes an essay defending why Rakitic or EV don't have to be the SINGLE scapegoat.

> Is foaming at the mouth for a bad match by Dembele, Arthur, FDJ (not for now but the time will come), or Semedo to single them out as the reason behind our shit performances.

There's levels to shamelessness and this is rock bottom.

The only apt description I can find for this is: IT IS WHAT IT IS.

:valverde::valverde:
 

Judoman

Senior Member
Arthur de jong
Messi griez dembele
Suarez
Is that what you want bbz?
Nah, Messi shouldn t be on the wing in the 4-2-3-1.

Messi should be in the center, because that s where his limited movement is not a big deal, if the CF makes up for it and also, he
gets to be involved in the midfield play. Although Griezmann is not a winger, but i think he could play in this formation due to his mentality and skills. Dembele...i m not so sure.
Pedro type of player would be perfect.
In any case, in order for Barca to play 4-2-3-1, which would be best with Messi, we would need different coach and few player adjustments. Doable in 1 transfer window.

But, we rather spend it, chasing Neymar.


btw, @croatians on the forum, who s that CF in you national team? He looks like a beast...
 

JerseyAddict

Well-known member
btw, @croatians on the forum, who s that CF in you national team? He looks like a beast...

Bruno Petković, no 20?
Yes. He is in perfect form. He was all around and they called him "CF with no goal" and then he came to Dinamo. He has had brilliant last season with Dinamo in EL passing the group stage after 50y. He scored some perfect goals.

He plays great in Dinamo as pivotal player that handles areal duels and picks up all that long balls, gets them down and passes and combines with players... he is good in passing 1 on 1 against defenders.

His stats yesterday:
Strikes 6 total, 3 on goal
Dribble 6 sucess out of 6
Areals won 5 of 5
 

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