Ivan Rakitić

[AlexT]

You didn't have to bring up stats here. Fabregas is probably the best midfielder in the world, especially if he keeps up this form throughout the entire season. With us his numbers were also fairly impressive; 14 assists and 9 goals last season. The problem was though that he couldn't keep up his form along the whole season, he faded away for the more important part of the season, when we needed him most.

He claimed to never be allowed to play at his best position at Barca but that doesn't excuse the fact that he always 'tamped' his stats in the first part of the season and then in the second part of the season he scored maybe 2 or 3 and assisted 3 or 4 and he still featured in the same position as before. Mental weakness?

To be fair, in the last few seasons we played a more direct football in the first half of the season than in the second, so there was a difference.
I've seen quite a few matches of Chelsea this season and I found several differences between how he played for us and how he plays for them.
1) His tactical awareness has ridiculously improved, he doesn't leave gaps behind him anymore and works hard to track back and defend.
I presume it's Mour's influence.
2) Everything goes through him. Practically in every Chelsea game he has by far the most touches and passes on the pitch. He's the playmaker of that side. He has much more responsibility than he ever had at Barcelona and it seems to do him good, just like it did him good at Arsenal.

 

[Flavia]

Why don't we compare their stats from this season, when Fabregas actually plays as a midfielder all the time and is trusted by his coach?

Then use Rakitic's last season, too. As this season his coach is using him mostly as a babysitter for Alves.

 

[AlexT]

Then use Rakitic's last season, too. As this season his coach is using him mostly as a babysitter for Alves.

I think it's pretty fair to compare. Fabregas plays deep in the pivot, so he has more defensive responsibilities and spends a lot of time defending too, but unlike Rakitic, it doesn't hurt his creativity.

 

[Flavia]

I think it's pretty fair to compare. Fabregas plays deep in the pivot, so he has more defensive responsibilities and spends a lot of time defending too, but unlike Rakitic, it doesn't hurt his creativity.

Because cesc plays in a totally different setup. If cesc was playing rakitic's current role, he'd be sucking beyond belief.

 

[AlexT]

Because cesc plays in a totally different setup. If cesc was playing rakitic's current role, he'd be sucking beyond belief.

It still doesn't excuse Rakitic's lack of creativity. Only 60% of his passes are forward passes! It's incredibly poor. He provides next to no creativity and forces Messi to drop to the midfield all the time. In comparison, Iniesta - 69%, Xavi - 68%, Cesc has 77% forward passes.

 

[Flavia]

It still doesn't excuse Rakitic's lack of creativity. Only 60% of his passes are forward passes! It's incredibly poor. He provides next to no creativity and forces Messi to drop to the midfield all the time. In comparison, Iniesta - 69%, Xavi - 68%, Cesc has 77% forward passes.

It does excuse, as rakitic has no freedom to be creative. The few times he did, he provided some decent passes or shots.

 

[AlexT]

It does excuse, as rakitic has no freedom to be creative. The few times he did, he provided some decent passes or shots.

I don't buy it. Cesc's freedom is limited too when he plays in the pivot. He doesn't have an anchor who stays behind in front of the defence - Matic goes forward pretty often too. Ivanovic tends to recklessly bomb forward all the time, leaving the right side where Cesc plays vulnerable, so he has to stay back and cover for him. Cesc might have a bit more freedom than Rakitic, but he certainly does a lot of dirty work - more dirty work than Rakitic does, but his creativity doesn't suffer that much. Maybe it's because Rakitic's passing range is poor.

 

[Galning]

Everytime someone brings up Cesc I'm so glad we got rid of him. He looked so out of place.

 

[Ini8]

I don't buy it. Cesc's freedom is limited too when he plays in the pivot. He doesn't have an anchor who stays behind in front of the defence - Matic goes forward pretty often too. Ivanovic tends to recklessly bomb forward all the time, leaving the right side where Cesc plays vulnerable, so he has to stay back and cover for him. Cesc might have a bit more freedom than Rakitic, but he certainly does a lot of dirty work - more dirty work than Rakitic does, but his creativity doesn't suffer that much. Maybe it's because Rakitic's passing range is poor.

Cesc looks just as lost as Rakitic when he doesn't have Matic beside him as his defensive burden increases. Maybe that's the case for Rakitic too, since our current midfield setup seems to hinder his offensive contribution. If you take a look at the average positioning of the Chelsea players so far this season as well as watch their matches, it creates a pretty clear picture. Even though he has licence to get forward, Matic does in fact anchor the defence. Perhaps if we played with Mascherano in DM, we'd get to see a more creative Rakitic.

About his passing range, that's not true. It doesn't sound like you've watched him at all last season, if you believe that.

 

[ZenI]

Everytime someone brings up Cesc I'm so glad we got rid of him. He looked so out of place.

He sort of did look out of place, I agree - but truth be told, Raki looks even more out of place. His work rate is the only thing keeping me from thinking this was a really awful signing, we need that work rate.

 

[AlexT]

Cesc looks just as lost as Rakitic when he doesn't have Matic beside him as his defensive burden increases. Maybe that's the case for Rakitic too, since our current midfield setup seems to hinder his offensive contribution. If you take a look at the average positioning of the Chelsea players so far this season as well as watch their matches, it creates a pretty clear picture. Even though he has licence to get forward, Matic does in fact anchor the defence. Perhaps if we played with Mascherano in DM, we'd get to see a more creative Rakitic.

About his passing range, that's not true. It doesn't sound like you've watched him at all last season, if you believe that.

His passing range is certainly far inferior to Fabregas's. Just watched Chelsea's game. The amount of accurate long balls Fabregas does is unreal. Rakitic's "babysitting duties" shouldn't hurt his passing. Only 60% forward passes is very poor, no matter how you swing it.
And Fabregas does enough defending too. Today he made 3 tackles, 1 clearance, and still managed to make 122 passes and create 4 chances. But for some reason, Rakitic's defending cripples his creativity.

 

[Galning]

He sort of did look out of place, I agree - but truth be told, Raki looks even more out of place. His work rate is the only thing keeping me from thinking this was a really awful signing, we need that work rate.

He does. I totally agree with everything.

 

[Flavia]

His passing range is certainly far inferior to Fabregas's. Just watched Chelsea's game. The amount of accurate long balls Fabregas does is unreal. Rakitic's "babysitting duties" shouldn't hurt his passing. Only 60% forward passes is very poor, no matter how you swing it.
And Fabregas does enough defending too. Today he made 3 tackles, 1 clearance, and still managed to make 122 passes and create 4 chances. But for some reason, Rakitic's defending cripples his creativity.

If Cesc was played as a rb, I doubt he'd do well. No midfielder would. Cesc is a better player, but in 3 seasons he didn't fit. He's more suited for the epl, everyone knew he'd play a lot better there.

 

[serghei]

Barcaforum must be the only place in the world, except maybe Croatia, where people really think Cesc didn't fit the system while Rakitic does. Rakitic is a worse player than Cesc and that should be the end of it. Real managers extract the best out of a player, and that's exactly what Mourinho does now with him. We bought him from Arsenal, probably to play a 3 at the back system, which Pep did play back in 2011-12 (Cesc's best season). After that, we turned back to 4 at the back and used Fabregas either as a winger, or as a false 9, because Xavi - Iniesta - Busi occupied the midfield. He didn't fit? No shit. He was played in the wrong spot more often than not.

 

[Galning]

He didn't fit in midfielder either plus many people are saying Rakitic doesn't fit. What's your point anyway? I think you only remember what you want to remember. Many times Fàbregas was played in midfield and he sucked arse. On top of that, not being able to take Xavi's midfield spot even though he was supposedly so amazing and just played out of position raises some questions. Especially if you consider that people have been wanting to sell Xavi for the last two seasons, or at least his playing time reduced.

Cesc is good but not good for Barça. Is that partly due to the managers? Sure. But let's be real if you think he only failed here because "he was played out of position" than you are simply wrong.