Joan Laporta

[Luftstalag14]

100%.

All 3 are badly run clubs who have been left behind by the EPL clubs recently. But this is down to how they managed themselves. It's an inhouse mess they need to sort out. They just tried to do it with a quick easy shortcut. By a massive injection of capital via JP Morgan.

Theys should dig deep and suffer in the bad times like every club does. Don't get this frenzy with EPL clubs either. With all their money United is a joke for a decade. English clubs are known for going through prolonged bad times.

Actually the English clubs are not in much better position than these three clubs (for example Manchester United has massive debts too, so does Tottenham etc.), if they are better it is because they are owned by rich owners who can pump money into their respective clubs. Yes the English clubs are getting more TV/broadcast money than everybody else but in the last decade or so, both us and Real Madrid have been able to surpass the English clubs (and others for that matter) in total revenue regardless.

We absolutely should own up to our mistakes and put our finances in order, no question about it. Just wanted to point out many English clubs are also in a similar boat, financially.

 

[JamDav1982]

Actually the English clubs are not in much better position than these three clubs (for example Manchester United has massive debts too, so does Tottenham etc.), if they are better it is because they are owned by rich owners who can pump money into their respective clubs. Yes the English clubs are getting more TV/broadcast money than everybody else but in the last decade or so, both us and Real Madrid have been able to surpass the English clubs (and others for that matter) in total revenue regardless.

We absolutely should own up to our mistakes and put our finances in order, no question about it. Just wanted to point out many English clubs are also in a similar boat, financially.

It is not just about the revenues of Barca and Real in comparison to those clubs.

Those clubs have billionaire owners who for some pump money in irrespective of the revenues.

The biggest issue is how many billionaire owners there are in the EPL and how much it is becoming the 'main' league to the detriment of others and only getting worse.

 

[serghei]

Actually the English clubs are not in much better position than these three clubs (for example Manchester United has massive debts too, so does Tottenham etc.), if they are better it is because they are owned by rich owners who can pump money into their respective clubs. Yes the English clubs are getting more TV/broadcast money than everybody else but in the last decade or so, both us and Real Madrid have been able to surpass the English clubs (and others for that matter) in total revenue regardless.

We absolutely should own up to our mistakes and put our finances in order, no question about it. Just wanted to point out many English clubs are also in a similar boat, financially.

Yes, exactly.

There is a problem with the fan-owned club when you need an injection of capital (which you need only in crisis, or when you are poorly run because otherwise, 800m revenue should be enough to sustain your spending). This can only be done through credit I think. Since there is no sugar daddy to pump money in the club.

So, once Barca/Madrid boards mismanage funds and are in the hole, the easiest way to get out is to find a quick massive injection of capital.

It is not just about the revenues of Barca and Real in comparison to those clubs.

Those clubs have billionaire owners who for some pump money in irrespective of the revenues.

The biggest issue is how many billionaire owners there are in the EPL and how much it is becoming the 'main' league to the detriment of others and only getting worse.

OK, then put part of the club on the market. Barca / Madrid are the most valuable clubs in the world. 1 and 2 ranked by Forbes. Corporations and billionaires would be instantly interested.

With the fan-owned model, you spend what you earn. When you fuck this balance up, you pay the price. Which is what we're doing now.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yes, exactly.

There is a problem with the fan-owned club when you need an injection of capital (which you need only in crisis, or when you are poorly run because otherwise, 800m revenue should be enough to sustain your spending). This can only be done through credit I think. Since there is no sugar daddy to pump money in the club.

So, once Barca/Madrid boards mismanage funds and are in the hole, the easiest way to get out is to find a quick massive injection of capital.



OK, then put part of the club on the market. Barca / Madrid are the most valuable clubs in the world. 1 and 2 ranked by Forbes. Corporations and billionaires would be instantly interested.

With the fan-owned model, you spend what you earn. When you fuck this balance up, you pay the price. Which is what we're doing now.

Barca wont go on the market. Socios would never vote for it.

 

[serghei]

Barca wont go on the market. Socios would never vote for it.

Sure, great, we don't have to go on the market. We can stay a fan-owned club and though it up in the bad times. The point is, you can't have everything, the best of all worlds into one model that everyone should bow down to.

 

[Luftstalag14]

It is not just about the revenues of Barca and Real in comparison to those clubs.

Those clubs have billionaire owners who for some pump money in irrespective of the revenues.

The biggest issue is how many billionaire owners there are in the EPL and how much it is becoming the 'main' league to the detriment of others and only getting worse.

Yeah, not much can do there unless La Liga and other leagues can get to the EPL's level of overall attractiveness finance-wise. That's why La Liga has been trying hard with all sorts of initiatives to broaden the appeal and raise the potential of the league, with hopes to grow the TV/broadcast deals and attract more investors. Certainly there is a long way to go to match the EPL's power and prowess.

Ideally, with FFP or something like FFP in place, clubs like ours can still compete with those clubs owned by rich owners/sovereign states, but now with COVID and FFP is out the window, without anything in place we will be left behind.

 

[JamDav1982]

Sure, great, we don't have to go on the market. We can stay a fan-owned club and though it up in the bad times. The point is, you can't have everything, the best of all worlds into one model that everyone should bow down to.

None of that is relevant to the point being made in that other leagues are going to get left behind by EPL in ways that impacts and makes it tougher for top clubs to compete.

Will be left with one dominant league in terms of interest and finances where more and more top players and very good players want to go and other largely second thought leagues with at best one or two big clubs dominating.

 

[Luftstalag14]

No, we will not become a privately-owned club, so the only way for us to get out of this financial crisis is to borrow more money (through bank loans or bonds etc.) to pay off some existing debt, especially short term debt and potentially incur more debt; at the same time trimming expenses and exploiting opportunities for new revenues (from major initiatives like Barca TV+, materializing BIHUB research projects and bringing them into market, taking merchandising in house to more trivial stuff like offering online museum and Camp Nou tours, launching Barca exhibition world tour and "becoming players for a day" etc.).

There is really no other way about it.

 

[JamDav1982]

No, we will not become a privately-owned club, so the only way for us to get out of this financial crisis is to borrow more money (through bank loans or bonds etc.) to pay off some existing debt, especially short term debt and potentially incur more debt; at the same time trimming expenses and exploiting opportunities for new revenues (from major initiatives like Barca TV+, materializing BIHUB research projects and bringing them into market, taking merchandising in house to more trivial stuff like offering online museum and Camp Nou tours, launching Barca exhibition world tour and "becoming players for a day" etc.).

There is really no other way about it.

It is not all just about the current situation it is about the future.

Even if Barca were in reasonable place financially with a better team the same issues would be there for the different leagues and where this will end up.

 

[serghei]

None of that is relevant to the point being made in that other leagues are going to get left behind by EPL in ways that impacts and makes it tougher for top clubs to compete.

Nobody knows what will happen. For all we know, EPL might be the richest league in the future, but not the best, if they lose the key actors behind their recent success. So what are we even talking about here? Football success, or money?

Because their success is more tied to the talent they have recruited, especially in terms of gathering the best managers, than the money they have.

So... this left behind thing is not substantiated by much currently. We've been left behind not because of EPL being this unstoppable force, but because COVID hit Barca/Madrid the hardest, and because the clubs have been poor on the transfer market. When you sign Lopetegui and Valverde, and the EPL clubs bring in managers like Guardiola and Klopp, you're setting yourself up for failure.

Barca and Madrid have the biggest revenues pre-covid and are the most valuable clubs. But the reality is that they have been horribly run. This is where it all stems from. You have a point in saying that sugar-daddy clubs have a safety net in case of bad management. Simply inject capital and the problems are quickly superseded. That's where UEFA's corruption hurt us.

 

[Luftstalag14]

It is not all just about the current situation it is about the future.

Even if Barca were in reasonable place financially with a better team the same issues would be there for the different leagues and where this will end up.

Yes, I understand where you are coming from. The EPL becoming more powerful, siphoning money and the best players from all over the world and leave little for the other leagues to survive on.

Before La Liga and other leagues catch up to the EPL (if they ever will), and short of some sort of Super League in Europe, the only thing I can think of will be some sort of binding rules like the FFP from UEFA or other governing bodies that help level the playing field somehow. For UEFA, I think it will not be in their interest to see the EPL leaving the other leagues in dust.

 

[JamDav1982]

Nobody knows what will happen. For all we know, EPL might be the richest league in the future, but not the best, if they lose the key actors behind their recent success. So what are we even talking about here? Football success, or money?

Because their success is more tied to the talent they have recruited, especially in terms of gathering the best managers, than the money they have.

So... this left behind thing is not substantiated by much currently. Unless you're aiming for a prediction here. Barca and Madrid have the biggest revenues pre-covid and are the most valuable clubs. But the reality is that they have been horribly run.

It will continue as it is and get worse with more and more money and hooveirng of talent from other leagues.

The best coaches are there because of the money, exposure, desire to be in most competitive league all ties in.

Same predictions were being made years ago and here we are and will get worse.

You keep mentioning revenue when been told it is not all about the revenue top clubs have.

 

[ebc_99]

The current Premier League TV deal is lower than the previous one and the next one is no better either. Whilst the current La Liga deal is better than the previous.

The problem is that Real and Barca have wasted enormous amounts of money and neither club has a top class manager. Whilst Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City have great coaches and have spent their money better.

The Premier league won't dominate forever, La Liga especially will be back, I can't see Klopp and Pep staying in England much longer either and they are the two main reasons the Premier league looks stronger.

Barca, Real, Bayern, PSG, Man City, Chelsea and maybe Man Utd if they get their act together will dominate not just the English clubs. I don't think Liverpool will be as much of a threat after Klopp.

 

[serghei]

It will continue as it is and get worse with more and more money and hooveirng of talent from other leagues.

The best coaches are there because of the money, exposure, desire to be in most competitive league all ties in.

Same predictions were being made years ago and here we are and will get worse.

You keep mentioning revenue when been told it is not all about the revenue top clubs have.

You buy into this EPL story far too much. Top managers go for good sporting projects. Guardiola went to City because City wanted him very much, and they already hired some of his former partners in the club.

First Pep went to Bundesliga. Conte went to EPL, won the league, and then left to Serie A. Now he could be back in EPL. Top managers move around where they are wanted and where they are allowed to do their jobs.

Barca/Madrid need to get rid of this culture where the main bosses in the locker-room are past legends, and where the presidents suck up to these players. No self respecting manager will walk into a club to be dicked by washed up stars backed by sleazy presidents.

 

[Luftstalag14]

The current Premier League TV deal is lower than the previous one and the next one is no better either. Whilst the current La Liga deal is better than the previous.

The problem is that Real and Barca have wasted enormous amounts of money and neither club has a top class manager. Whilst Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City have great coaches and have spent their money better.

The Premier league won't dominate forever, La Liga especially will be back, I can't see Klopp and Pep staying in England much longer either and they are the two main reasons the Premier league looks stronger.

If I am not mistaken the EPL TV deal is lower only because of COVID and the La Liga TV deal is up for renewal soon and is expected to be lowered than the current one, because of COVID as well.