Jose Mourinho

[Beast]

Of course ^^^, it's a collective effort .. Jose take the credit

 

[Deco 20]

I see my post has been deleted, guessing someone else kept it going, what did I miss?

 

[Yugi]

Cruyff had zero to minimum influence on total football apart from being it's best student and flag.

Cruijff put theory into practical use, without him and Neeskens there would be nothing like that, it would be probably failed project, so yeah, no influence at all

 

[Beast]

And what happened to Krol , the brothers van de Kerkhof , Rensenbrink , Arie Haan ,Johnny Rep ???

Holland made it to the same level without Cruyff in the WC 78 so where is the failed project , huh ? ...so where is theory into practical use ? the entire generation was put into practical use... Cruyff was the most talented of them all and the most famous (partly due to his exotic behavior too ) but he had zero influence on Total football as a tactic
You lot are so young...

 

[Yugi]

Holland made it into 2010 WC final without Cruijff, so whats your point? this Holland generation also made it into final yet they failed....
Holland failed to win with or without Cruyff (but that final vs Germany was really unlucky tbh) and now look to Spain, they have 2 best midfielders of all time playing together and one of the best players in the history is playing with them in Barca, do you think we would be so good without them? I doubt it, Cruijff always offered something special, for Ajax and Holland too....no wonder people talk about him as father of total football, because he was the one who showed the world how to play in that system, he could play everywhere on the pitch
but only you fail to recognize his impact, isnt it a bit comical?

 

[Beast]

Ehm.. Does it need explaining that Holland in 2010 isn't playing total football ? i'm talking about the same generation of players with the same concept

Yes Holland was as good without him .. players from that team who were not Ajax (like Resenbrink & Haan for example ) managed a great achievement with Anderlacht and even in Europe winning two Cup winners cup..

Again you are confusing yourself there.. did i say anything about Cruyff impact or talent as a player ? try to read properly and avoid going into circles when you are cornered..
and who is the idiot who would say Cruyff is the father of total football ?? only a deluded ignorant would say anything like that..
my point is clear.. Cruyff didn't do anything in developing Total football , he was the best student and flag. ---- Full Stop

the one who showed Cruyff how to play and what total football is all about was Rinus ( followed by Kovacs )

 

[mitkoa7x]

I walked in the wrong thread again...

 

[Yugi]

holland in 2010 didnt play totaalvoetbal? yeah sure, maybe you just watched final, where they didnt because spain were much better, but other than that they always had many chances and lot of possession, they were brilliant....

cruyff´s talent and skills had impact on tactics of totall football, dont fool yourself, or you was there when Michels invented system and it was the only way totall football was played from that day until now? hell, Guardiola changed a bit this totall football tactics and when Cruyff played it was still being developed, so who are you to say he didn´t have any impact as a player and later as a coach (which many people here actually seen), dont call me deluded on this one
people arent stupid or ignorant to say that Cruyff is father of total footy, Michels invented it, he was the first man to use it, but Cruyff and Guardiola variated it...and Cruyff was also the guy who changed it as a player too, because it wasnt perfect at first you know....

this is what you said: "Cruyff had zero to minimum influence on total football apart from being it's best student and flag." and this is what I am trying to tell you you were wrong at. but you will just again post some old-history shit like you was there with those guys when they were playing and thinking about tactics so this post is useless for you anyway, you stay by your words altho many people will think you are wrong so much...
howgh

 

[Wouterinho]

holland in 2010 didnt play totaalvoetbal? yeah sure, maybe you just watched final, where they didnt because spain were much better, but other than that they always had many chances and lot of possession, they were brilliant....
howgh

I agree with the rest, but this part...
The final was basically raping everything football should stand for, and the rest of the tournament really wasn't that amazing.
They never deserved to win against Brazil for example.
Also, outside of Holland, nobody was really impressed by the football they brought. This shouldn't be a surprise when two of your midfielders are Van Bommel and De Jong.

 

[Beast]

holland in 2010 didnt play totaalvoetbal? yeah sure, maybe you just watched final, where they didnt because spain were much better, but other than that they always had many chances and lot of possession, they were brilliant....

cruyff´s talent and skills had impact on tactics of totall football, dont fool yourself, or you was there when Michels invented system and it was the only way totall football was played from that day until now? hell, Guardiola changed a bit this totall football tactics and when Cruyff played it was still being developed, so who are you to say he didn´t have any impact as a player and later as a coach (which many people here actually seen), dont call me deluded on this one
people arent stupid or ignorant to say that Cruyff is father of total footy, Michels invented it, he was the first man to use it, but Cruyff and Guardiola variated it...and Cruyff was also the guy who changed it as a player too, because it wasnt perfect at first you know....

this is what you said: "Cruyff had zero to minimum influence on total football apart from being it's best student and flag." and this is what I am trying to tell you you were wrong at. but you will just again post some old-history shit like you was there with those guys when they were playing and thinking about tactics so this post is useless for you anyway, you stay by your words altho many people will think you are wrong so much...
howgh

Sorry i thought you were knowledgeable enough and know the difference between total football & what Holland displayed in the WC ...my mistake

At least we have substance for the gold material

few bullet points for you since you are quite ignorant about total football (and any football as it seems )

- Rinus didn't invent the system , he developed it to it's best shape and he wasn't the first to use it (Jesus you know nothing about football do you ???? )
- What Guardiola and before him Rijkaard did was what is known as the Spanish Tiki-Taka which is different than Total football it just took some bits and pieces from total football and improved it
- Cruyff did nothing to total football .. even the one who introduce to Barca was Rinus in the 70's , Cruyff remain a student the best student for Rinus .. that's all
this has nothing to do with Cruyff talent as a player which is not subject to debate here

I have to post history when i'm talking to someone with zero knowledge about football apart from the last 2-3 years , maybe it will help you read more , maybe it won't after all .. your posts seem to demonstrate you know nothing about football or its history ...

and thanks for laugh about Holland playing total football in WC 2010

 

[Beast]

I agree with the rest, but this part...
The final was basically raping everything football should stand for, and the rest of the tournament really wasn't that amazing.
They never deserved to win against Brazil for example.
Also, outside of Holland, nobody was really impressed by the football they brought. This shouldn't be a surprise when two of your midfielders are Van Bommel and De Jong.

Ah someone laughed earlier than me ...

 

[mitkoa7x]

holland in 2010 didnt play totaalvoetbal? yeah sure, maybe you just watched final, where they didnt because spain were much better, but other than that they always had many chances and lot of possession, they were brilliant....

No... just no...

 

[Deco 20]

Michels deserves most of the credit. From what I've been told and from what I've read he's the one that evolved it and made it famous. Kovacs kept working on it. Cruijff was the on-pitch leader, however. He was the one telling his team-mates what to do. With such a fluid system you need players who are able to use it, and Cruijff was, more than anyone else, that person.

 

[Daemul]

What is this nonesense? Cruyff and Rinus Michels are known as the founders of Total Football. Cruyff was not just a great footballer, but unlike Pele and Maradona he was also a great thinker about football. It's as if he were the lightbulb and Edison all at once. Back in 1965 Ajax were still a semi-professional outfit, but in January that year Michels arrived at the club with ambitions of turning Ajax into an top international club. He met a teenage waif who was equally as ambitious and in 6 years they had done it.

It was a game of rapid one-touch passing and players endlessly swapping positions in search of space. Cruyff could go where he liked, conducting the orchestra with constant improvisation. The world first noticed in 1966, when Ajax beat Liverpool 5-1 on a misty night. Cruyff and Michels were lucky of course, because by some demographic fluke half the young men in Amsterdam-East seemed to be world class footballers. Cruyff was the most orginal player, without him there would be no Total Football.

 

[Beast]

What is this nonesense? Cruyff and Rinus Michels are known as the founders of Total Football. Cruyff was not just a great footballer, but unlike Pele and Maradona he was also a great thinker about football. It's as if he were the lightbulb and Edison all at once. Back in 1965 Ajax were still a semi-professional outfit, but in January that year Michels arrived at the club with ambitions of turning Ajax into an top international club. He met a teenage waif who was equally as ambitious and in 6 years they had done it.

It was a game of rapid one-touch passing and players endlessly swapping positions in search of space. Cruyff could go where he liked, conducting the orchestra with constant improvisation. The world first noticed in 1966, when Ajax beat Liverpool 5-1 on a misty night. Cruyff and Michels were lucky of course, because by some demographic fluke half the young men in Amsterdam-East seemed to be world class footballers. Cruyff was the most orginal player, without him there would be no Total Football.

Wrong again..

what's wrong with you people ?? some reading or even google the shit you all write

Jack Reynolds