Jose Mourinho

[Poor_Sunyol]

Sure.

I never called them exceptional. I said that they are neither fantastic nor horrible (for sure) in one of my previous posts. I just felt that he does not get the credit he deserves for closing the gap, which was huge, between us and them.

Sure, that has been his way of operating and no sane person can say that this has not been a successful model. Mourinho is a football nomad. And the best there is. It's only natural that clubs, after he leaves them, are not able to outperform his achievements immediately. But why should he care? That's not his job. He is all about results and not longevity or leaving a project for his successor. That's not the job of a football nomad as he calls himself.

Hence why I am curious to see if he would be successful at Man Utd if he stayed for 5-6 years. I am afraid that it is not in his character to do that though. But I sure as hell believe that he would be successful in that role too if willing to adjust himself.

His spending at Inter was not that big either. His net spending in those 2 season (2008-2010) was just 38 million euros. This current Juve team under Conte have spent more money. Had anyone told to me that Inter would win a treble I would laughed at him too. But Mourinho did it. Beating us in the process.

The gap between us hasn't closed significantly. Out of three seasons he won 1 Liga title. We won 2. He worked out how to beat us this year, but a lot of that was due to our own failings rather than his own achievements. You are right to say that if he is hired to do a certain job then why should he care about his legacy, but that is a very narrow minded point of view and not one that many fans would subscribe to. Why have a manager for 3 years that costs you another 5 years trying to rebuild?

 

[DucdeOrléans]

The gap between us hasn't closed significantly. Out of three seasons he won 1 Liga title. We won 2. He worked out how to beat us this year, but a lot of that was due to our own failings rather than his own achievements. You are right to say that if he is hired to do a certain job then why should he care about his legacy, but that is a very narrow minded point of view and not one that many fans would subscribe to. Why have a manager for 3 years that costs you another 5 years trying to rebuild?

Really? Look at the the head to head results. They tell a different story, especially this season. Also remember that this is/was the era of our team. Not that of RM at all. So this only makes his performances better in that light IMO.

Why is that a narrow minded view? We both know that RM knew about this before they hired him. So why should I fell sorry for them as a club. Mourinho was and is not a madridista. Anyway if you notice it then he actually tried to improve the club structure. Our resident madridistas here, elsewhere and Spanish "experts" and others admitted that openly before this season started.

Also we are yet to see how this will impact RM. My guess not much since it's already a club that is world famous for sacking managers left and right and for starting up from scratch every 2-3 years. How many managers in RM history have been at the helm for 3 years or more? I can only think about Del Bosque and Beenhakker in the last 25-30 years. Sure it will have a impact but not as bad as some here would try to make it out. In fact I predict RM to win the league next season.

 

[Poor_Sunyol]

The head the head results aren't that good are they? Do you have them to hand? Let me take a different tack if I may, has Jose improved Real Madrid's image/brand since he took over?

 

[BarcaGirl]

Busquets: "Mourinho saying Iniesta can't talk about Casillas? Didn't know Mourinho is the only one who's allowed to talk about everything."

 

[Barcaman]

Real Madrid as a brand did improve. But that's largely thanx to Perez.

 

[DucdeOrléans]

Busquets: "Mourinho saying Iniesta can't talk about Casillas? Didn't know Mourinho is the only one who's allowed to talk about everything."

Did Mourinho not say that Iniesta can say what he wants BUT that he should worry more about a FCB team without Messi (gave the CL-semifinal tie as a example) rather than focusing on Casillas?

Real Madrid as a brand did improve. But that's largely thanx to Perez.

Bojan, RM as a brand was already only second to that of Man Utd well before Pérez arrived in 2009. Sporting wise then Pérez has been an IMMENSE fiasco. He has been at the helm of RM for 10 years now and has only 3 league titles to show for, 1 CL and 1 CDR. How much has he spent in the process for all that again? An truly outrageous number. For all I care he can stay at RM until he dies. Would be marvelous if he did.

Pérez is clueless when it comes to the sporting aspect. In terms of branding, economy etc. then he is a genius. But that is all that can be said about him.

 

[Yannick03]

Did Mourinho not say that Iniesta can say what he wants BUT that he should worry more about a FCB team without Messi (gave the CL-semifinal tie as a example) rather than focusing on Casillas?



Bojan, RM as a brand was already only second to that of Man Utd well before Pérez arrived in 2009. Sporting wise then Pérez has been an IMMENSE fiasco. He has been at the helm of RM for 10 years now and has only 3 league titles to show for, 1 CL and 1 CDR. How much has he spent in the process for all that again? An truly outrageous number. For all I care he can stay at RM until he dies. Would be marvelous if he did.

Pérez is clueless when it comes to the sporting aspect. In terms of branding, economy etc. then he is a genius. But that is all that can be said about him.

So when Mourinho won 3 trophies it was good because we were the dominant force in his period. But when Perez has only 3 leagues, a CL and a CDR it's a fiasco ? Not really consistent in your reasoning.

 

[mixer]

Busquets: "Mourinho saying Iniesta can't talk about Casillas? Didn't know Mourinho is the only one who's allowed to talk about everything."

Busi always bossing around.

 

[DucdeOrléans]

So when Mourinho won 3 trophies it was good because we were the dominant force in his period. But when Perez has only 3 leagues, a CL and a CDR it's a fiasco ? Not really consistent in your reasoning.

You are the one that is not consistent. Since when have we been a all-dominant force since 2000? Care to explain that to me? We won our first trophy in 2005 after 6 years of trophy draught. Remember that? Or too young?

So you are trying to argue against this below? Good luck.

Bojan, RM as a brand was already only second to that of Man Utd well before Pérez arrived in 2009. Sporting wise then Pérez has been an IMMENSE fiasco. He has been at the helm of RM for 10 years now and has only 3 league titles to show for, 1 CL and 1 CDR. How much has he spent in the process for all that again? An truly outrageous number. For all I care he can stay at RM until he dies. Would be marvelous if he did.

Pérez is clueless when it comes to the sporting aspect. In terms of branding, economy etc. then he is a genius. But that is all that can be said about him.

 

[Poor_Sunyol]

I don't think that Jose has helped Madrid's image. Falling out with the press, sticking his finger in Tito's eye, not going to the award ceremonies...etc

 

[Yannick03]

You are the one that is not consistent. Since when have we been a all-dominant force since 2000? Care to explain that to me? We won our first trophy in 2005 after 6 years of trophy draught. Remember that? Or too young?

It all began with this quote [On Mourinho]

Really? Look at the the head to head results. They tell a different story, especially this season. Also remember that this is/was the era of our team. Not that of RM at all. So this only makes his performances better in that light IMO.

Since Perez was president the first time (2000-2006) : 2 UCL, one European Supercup, 1 worldcup for clubs, 2 La Liga's and 2 Supercopa's. He's been fairly successful in that period if you ask me. So it all comes down to his second period since 2009, since when we were a dominant force. Yet, you criticize Perez for not being succesful which is his own fault but when Mourinho is not successful it is down to our dominance ? Mourinho inherited a multimillion squad which he was able to produce 1 La Liga, 1 Supercup and possibly 2 CDR in 3 season's. I'd say you're Mourinho biased.

 

[DucdeOrléans]

I don't think that Jose has helped Madrid's image. Falling out with the press, sticking his finger in Tito's eye, not going to the award ceremonies...etc

Agree. Nobody has claimed anything else.

It all began with this quote [On Mourinho]



Since Perez was president the first time (2000-2006) : 2 UCL, one European Supercup, 1 worldcup for clubs, 2 La Liga's and 2 Supercopa's. He's been fairly successful in that period if you ask me. So it all comes down to his second period since 2009, since when we were a dominant force. Yet, you criticize Perez for not being succesful which is his own fault but when Mourinho is not successful it is down to our dominance ? Mourinho inherited a multimillion squad which he was able to produce 1 La Liga, 1 Supercup and possibly 2 CDR in 3 season's. I'd say you're Mourinho biased.

Pérez won the presidency during the summer of 2000. So AFTER RM won their 8 CL-title.

No sane person can argue that Pérez has been a successful president based on the results the club have achieved during his presidency. Especially not if you look at the insane amount of money that has been spent. In terms of branding and economy then he is possibly the best president there is as I already mentioned. But that is another discussion.

You are comparing apples and oranges again. FCB has dominated football from 2008 until 2012 (some would argue until this season since we won the league title). So Mourinho's achievements and his ability to close the gap happened during our era. Nearly half of the presidency of Pérez occurred when we were nobodies and in a horrible crisis.

So 1 league title (league of records) during 3 seasons during the "era of FCB", possibly 2 CDR titles, 1 Spanish Super Cup, 3 straight CL-seminfals and being able to close the gap and leave a young team to a successor is now a BAD achievement? You don't think that you are maybe slightly biased/deliberately harsh just because it is Mourinho we are talking about? Just a little maybe?

Mourinho had NOTHING to do whatsoever with the outrageous spending spree that Pérez was behind back in the summer of 2009.

Anyway I have to leave. Will probably be back this night to answer your post or others. I am just afraid that this will be a circular discussion and thus a waste of time.

 

[Beast]

Why do you have such a hard on for Mou?

P.S. RM are still nobodies in Europe, they haven't won anything for decades.

Nobodies that are usually top 5 favorites every year for most of the decade ... doesn't make any sense does it ? last 4 years we've been top 3 if not top 2..

Success breads interest and Mourinho has been the most successful manager during the last decade.

That's a simplistic view to hold. So Mourinho decided to turn the club into a mess the day Casillas "called Xavi and settled the score"? Really? Did that not happen before this season even began?

Plagued Spain for years? In what direction actually? Did not stop Spain from winning the European Championship last summer.

That's what happens when your organization/club structure is not geared for a person of Mourinho's character. That was well-known long before he was appointed. Another mistake by Pérez out of many (sporting at least).

Notice that such problems never occurred at his former clubs and that says a lot in my opinion.

Valdano was removed because he wanted to yell influence on matters that should be left to the manager, president and remaining staff.

The media have treated Mourinho as shit since the first day. The type of guy like Mourinho that actually can outplay the media, has the charisma and leadership is never well-liked. Again a difference of football culture. In England they love such characters hence why he always felt at home there. Let's not try to make the Spanish media innocent of all this when they all live and breathe on creating conflicts.

I can't remember 1 single day during the last 3 years that they DID NOT create one rumor about Mourinho or elaborate his comments in a absolutely ridiculous manner. Especially the Madrid-based media that have made this a living.

Mourinho knew he was leaving and that the environment he envisioned was not going to be created hence he focused on the CL and Copa del Rey. You should maybe give him some credit for even being able to pull RM out of the mess that he was by no means the sole person responsible for (no matter what you write and others) and reach the CDR final after beating FCB, beating us in the league and reaching the CL-semifinal. How many other managers would be able to pull that off under those circumstances? My guess. Not many.

I am surprised all this comes from you, although not really since that opinion is now shared by most madridistas now when they KNOW that he is going to leave, since I recall you and most other madridistas here calling him the greatest manager in the world and the best manager at RM since Del Bosque. Especially after the "league of records" there were no superlatives left to describe how amazing he was. Among the vast majority of madridistas.

Mourinho, as said before, knew that he was going to leave after this season and has since been on a self-destructive mood, especially after the CL-exit. I don't blame him for that. Would not take the circus serious either.

Has not delivered? That's not the opinion of most neutral observers if you try to look at it. 3 titles in 3 years against a historic FCB team and 3 straight CL-semfinals is delivering. But as I said and Mourinho said himself, then it's not fantastic at all but it could be worse. Most importantly he has closed the gap, that was huge between us and you, before he arrived. That is undeniable as well. For each encounter he has got better.

Before Mourinho RM were nobodies in European football for 10 straight years. Don't forget that.

Anyway Mourinho will prove his worth as everywhere he has been and win more trophies and he will have the last laugh as he always seems to do.

You may know a thing or two about Barcelona but surely not Real Madrid

No the issue was ongoing since the Xavi call , but he had no alternatives , he tried before Lopez to make Adan the no 1 and said he is better than Iker but that failed miserably until Diego came... look there is matter of opinion issues and there is hard long facts.. Both Ramos & Iker fell out for non sporting reasons and if he had another CB to cover for Ramos (and Ramos wasn't the second Captain ) he would have found the same treatment as Iker.. remember he did punish him too after Ozil shirt gesture ..

And thank god we are not tailored for any manager because there is nothing called making a club tailor made for you.. last club did that was Inter and thankfully we won't go this road... he was a manager with full authority and that was a privilege no manager got before him (more or less ) in the last decade

Valdano resigned because it was a no-go between them , of course he must have influence he was the club director and general manager what the hell do you think he is ? but Valdano toe will always be worth 100 Jose , what Valdano did to this club over the past 30 years is unforgettable , he will always be a Madrid man
What mess exactly ? we were right behind you under Pellegrini he managed to add that small factors between winning and losing but a mess ? far from it

No think again , i wrote in this very forum last summer that this season is in fact Jose's last and that he is going back to England , i think if the archives are still there you can check my posts during the last week of pre-season i said both Jose & CR are leaving after this season

He did well especially on the Barca side of things but not great as in Del Bosque ..yes 3 semi-finals of the CL are great but boosting a Copa Del Rey when we never gave a damn about it is ridiculous from him

This! I hate when Barca fans say that he is the only good Madridista and that they want him in our club.

With respect to you & Urseg. post... this is a faulty & laughable comparison , most of the games Iker played he had a dumb ass Pepe in front of him with the team in shit form.. contrary to Diego Lopez who had Varane & Ramos

FYI the last two games Pepe played in front of Diego Lopez in the CL he conceded 7 goals...

The gap between us hasn't closed significantly. Out of three seasons he won 1 Liga title. We won 2. He worked out how to beat us this year, but a lot of that was due to our own failings rather than his own achievements. You are right to say that if he is hired to do a certain job then why should he care about his legacy, but that is a very narrow minded point of view and not one that many fans would subscribe to. Why have a manager for 3 years that costs you another 5 years trying to rebuild?

Another 5 years for a very young team ... right

The head the head results aren't that good are they? Do you have them to hand? Let me take a different tack if I may, has Jose improved Real Madrid's image/brand since he took over?

Sorry buddy the gap is not just closed it's gone with the wind... he worked out to beat you last year under Pep not this year... last 8 games you have 1 win , last league home games you have two losses .. i credit Jose for this fully TBH

Real Madrid as a brand did improve. But that's largely thanx to Perez.

Absolutely since 2000 till now

Bojan, RM as a brand was already only second to that of Man Utd well before Pérez arrived in 2009. Sporting wise then Pérez has been an IMMENSE fiasco. He has been at the helm of RM for 10 years now and has only 3 league titles to show for, 1 CL and 1 CDR. How much has he spent in the process for all that again? An truly outrageous number. For all I care he can stay at RM until he dies. Would be marvelous if he did.

Pérez is clueless when it comes to the sporting aspect. In terms of branding, economy etc. then he is a genius. But that is all that can be said about him.

As i said you know about Barcelona but not Real Madrid

Real Madrid brand was there since 2000 , globalized in 2002 & 2003 with the Galaticos , the movies (Real Madrid & Goal ) etc all of this due to Perez and his smart hiring of Ivan Bravo (now in Aspire zone /Qatar ) and Jose Sanchez ..
Calderon kept most of the Perez marketing team and even the years we were losing we were still making a bundle of marketing unaffected by anything

Sporting success It could have been more if Barca didn't have their best team in their history and the mistake Perez made in his first era.. but in the second era i don't see any sort of mistake at all .. he kept away from the football team matters as much as possible and made the right decisions including the sacking of Pellegrini
And for the 141251235626 times we don't care how much we spend .. i think it's established by now or do we still have to say the most expensive player for Real Madrid is the cheapest player we buy... we already recapped all of CR cost and more hell we don't even pay him literally anything as we take half of his advertising earnings
We are now top of the money league and above United in everything .. so don't worry about spending our 100 Million is your 20 Million

 

[Yannick03]

Agree. Nobody has claimed anything else.



Pérez won the presidency during the summer of 2000. So AFTER RM won their 8 CL-title.

No sane person can argue that Pérez has been a successful president based on the results the club has achieved when he has been at its helm as president. Especially not if you look at the insane amount of money that has been spent.

You are comparing apples and oranges again. FCB has dominated football from 2008 until 2012 (some would argue until this season since we won the league title). So Mourinho's achievements and his ability to close the gap happened during our era. Nearly half of the presidency of Pérez occurred when we were nobodies and in a horrible crisis.

So 1 league title (league of records) during 3 seasons during the "era of FCB", possibly 2 CDR titles, 1 Spanish Super Cup, 3 straight CL-seminfals and being able to close the gap and leave a young team to a successor is now a BAD achievement? You don't think that you are maybe slightly biased/deliberately harsh just because it is Mourinho we are talking about? Just a little maybe?

Mourinho had NOTHING to do whatsoever with the outrageous spending spree that Pérez was behind back in the summer of 2009.

I'm not at all hinting Mourinho did a BAD job, I'm just noticing that he was a disappointment. He clearly was appointed to win La Decima and when did we stand in his way ? One time, in the 2010-2011 season, the 2 remaining semi-finals he got knocked out by others. But sure winning 2 CDR and 1 La Liga with a record number of points is impressive but with that kind of money in that squad enough ? I'm not convinced. And clearly, they closing the gap is more about us deteriorating then they improving imo.

I have not against Mourinho as a coach, I don't like him as a person sure and sometimes I feel a lot of people are overstating his accomplishments because of his name, for instance 3 semi-finals in the UCL mean nothing for a club like Real Madrid. I just wanted to straighten that out.

 

[Beast]

I don't think that Jose has helped Madrid's image. Falling out with the press, sticking his finger in Tito's eye, not going to the award ceremonies...etc

All his fault .. that's the beauty of it.. as a club we kept great relation with Barca (so did our players ) ...

It all began with this quote [On Mourinho]



Since Perez was president the first time (2000-2006) : 2 UCL, one European Supercup, 1 worldcup for clubs, 2 La Liga's and 2 Supercopa's. He's been fairly successful in that period if you ask me. So it all comes down to his second period since 2009, since when we were a dominant force. Yet, you criticize Perez for not being succesful which is his own fault but when Mourinho is not successful it is down to our dominance ? Mourinho inherited a multimillion squad which he was able to produce 1 La Liga, 1 Supercup and possibly 2 CDR in 3 season's. I'd say you're Mourinho biased.

Agree and i hated the man first stint big time.. but he improved himself in the first one although i have to remind you that it's only 1 CL not 2.. Perez took over in the summer of 2000 when we already won the CL