Jose Mourinho

[Poor_Sunyol]

What is this young team that you are referring to Gio? I can see a lot of the current team leaving this summer.

 

[Poor_Sunyol]

Di Maria, Ozil, Ramos, Coentrao, Ronaldo, Benzema or Higuain. All out.

 

[DucdeOrléans]

Beast:

I follow RM as closely as FCB. That's part of being a fan of either since it is largely a two-horse race and both clubs are mutually dependent on each other.

My opinion is shared by a lot of Spanish madridistas and many of my arguments were put forward by socios and lifelong RM fans that took part in Marca's Futboleros program just few days ago when Mourinho's tenure at RM was discussed, Beast.

Having a different opinion is something completely different. You should know that.

I also said that JM was leaving this season. It was pretty clear. Anyway that's not the point.

Valdano might be a club legend etc. but he is not completely without faults as you try to make it out like. Just as Iker btw. The point being is that Pérez knew who he signed back in 2010. He knew that Mourinho's position as a manager and the role of Valdano were going to collide sooner rather than later.

In hindsigt you wanted the Valdano figure around to lecture/control every manager in the future? I really believe that you will be happy on the long run for that decision. Giving the manager more influence is the best thing you can do. History should have taught you that. That is exactly what every former manager at RM has complained at. Sometimes you have to take those brave but controversial battles.

Also why blame Mourinho? Last time I checked it was Pérez who were and still is the president and he has the last word. It is his responsibility alone since he knew what he got with Mourinho. If not then he did his homework badly.

Beast, come on. Did you not just say weeks ago that Pellegrini is only suited for clubs like Villarreal and that he is well-known choker? So you are saying that he would be able to do what Mourinho did? Really? At the same time, later in your post, you solely attribute the gap that has been closed to JM? Contradiction?

Also what did you expect? The gap had to be closed somewhat after spending 250 MILLION EUROS for God's sake.

Why are you telling me this? I know all that already and never stated the opposite? Read my post again. We all know that it was Pérez who pulled RM to the economic position you are in today during his first presidency. The whole Galácticos era, Ciudad Real Madrid in 2005 etc.

Well, you cannot keep economy and success apart from each other since they are mutually dependent in world football today. More than ever you can argue.

But sure RM and FCB operate in a different economical environment than most clubs in the world and especially those in Spain - hence we have this two-horse race.

Anyway nice to have a debate for once other than the usual "Mourinho and his dark ants" nonsense that we see around here.

 

[jamrock]

Worked out how to beat barca under pep my ass, he won a signle game against pep that year and is the only win of worth he got against him in a comp that matters since Madrid don't give a damn about the copa and super cup.

He has done to Tito what pep did to him which is to make him is bitch though, tito beat him once does that mean he figured out how to beat Jose.

As it relates to weather he has failed, of course he has he added two more points to what pellegrini did to win the league and failed to each three finals back to back and could hardly beat barca when they had a better manager in change.

He has done what any other top manager could have done and he was brought in to be special.

But I called it from the go, back in the days when beast was saying our cycle his over and I would say no, he would then reply I will quote you on this to lol at the end of the season. Hasn't happen yet,

See I understood he was hired on a false premise That he could beat barca and pep because he did it with inter Perez failed to realize the physical impact the 900km journey had on us, he also failed that inter played barca four times that year and 2-3 times got played off the park

He was always going to fail and that's exactly what happened.

 

[Tezemery]

What is this young team that you are referring to Gio? I can see a lot of the current team leaving this summer.

People said exactly the same thing with Robben, Sneider, Gago, van der Vaart, Huntelaar and Higuain they will buy loads of expensive players squeeze out some of the younger players and rebuild again like they do every 3-4 years.

 

[Beast]

Worked out how to beat barca under pep my ass, he won a signle game against pep that year and is the only win of worth he got against him in a comp that matters since Madrid don't give a damn about the copa and super cup.

He has done to Tito what pep did to him which is to make him is bitch though, tito beat him once does that mean he figured out how to beat Jose.

As it relates to weather he has failed, of course he has he added two more points to what pellegrini did to win the league and failed to each three finals back to back and could hardly beat barca when they had a better manager in change.

He has done what any other top manager could have done and he was brought in to be special.

But I called it from the go, back in the days when beast was saying our cycle his over and I would say no, he would then reply I will quote you on this to lol at the end of the season. Hasn't happen yet,

See I understood he was hired on a false premise That he could beat barca and pep because he did it with inter Perez failed to realize the physical impact the 900km journey had on us, he also failed that inter played barca four times that year and 2-3 times got played off the park

He was always going to fail and that's exactly what happened.

He worked his way around Pep beating him first to win a cup and than beating Barcelona in Camp nou to win a historic league ...so yes he did do that..
As for the cycle is over ...
say hi to the historical record in the Champions league of the biggest agg lose in history 7-0 ...
Say hi to winning ONCE in your last 8 Champion league games
yes your cycle is over and buried.. in case you were living somewhere else this is a friendly wake up call ... i was proven right and if we didn't screw up earlier you would have come empty handed from the league which u won be beating small teams and failing against all the big teams ..

wake up and smell the coffee man.. you are still living in 2009 , it's 2013 now when Barca can't buy a win in the champions league and can't score in the semi-final

What is this young team that you are referring to Gio? I can see a lot of the current team leaving this summer.

The entire team average is younger Alex and those who are leaving are either too old/old (Ricardo / Kaka etc ) or we are getting a younger version (Higuain/Aguero - Bale for CR or Di Maria )

Di Maria, Ozil, Ramos, Coentrao, Ronaldo, Benzema or Higuain. All out.

lol Ramos leaving .. .neither him nor Ozil are going anywhere..
Coentrao was a sub for Marcelo till the later injury no one is holding him back
Yes Higuain is probably leaving as we are getting a younger striker most likely and CR if we secure Bale ... again
So you are talking about a sub , game in game out starter Di Maria.. hardly big issue that's if we find a buyer of course

It's the election year.. so expect new blood

Beast:

I follow RM as closely as FCB. That's part of being a fan of either since it is largely a two-horse race and both clubs are mutually dependent on each other.

My opinion is shared by a lot of Spanish madridistas and many of my arguments were put forward by socios and lifelong RM fans that took part in Marca's Futboleros program just few days ago when Mourinho's tenure at RM was discussed, Beast.

Having a different opinion is something completely different. You should know that.

I also said that JM was leaving this season. It was pretty clear. Anyway that's not the point.

Valdano might be a club legend etc. but he is not completely without faults as you try to make it out like. Just as Iker btw. The point being is that Pérez knew who he signed back in 2010. He knew that Mourinho's position as a manager and the role of Valdano were going to collide sooner rather than later.

In hindsigt you wanted the Valdano figure around to lecture/control every manager in the future? I really believe that you will be happy on the long run for that decision. Giving the manager more influence is the best thing you can do. History should have taught you that. That is exactly what every former manager at RM has complained at. Sometimes you have to take those brave but controversial battles.

Also why blame Mourinho? Last time I checked it was Pérez who were and still is the president and he has the last word. It is his responsibility alone since he knew what he got with Mourinho. If not then he did his homework badly.

Beast, come on. Did you not just say weeks ago that Pellegrini is only suited for clubs like Villarreal and that he is well-known choker? So you are saying that he would be able to do what Mourinho did? Really? At the same time, later in your post, you solely attribute the gap that has been closed to JM? Contradiction?

Also what did you expect? The gap had to be closed somewhat after spending 250 MILLION EUROS for God's sake.

Why are you telling me this? I know all that already and never stated the opposite? Read my post again. We all know that it was Pérez who pulled RM to the economic position you are in today during his first presidency. The whole Galácticos era, Ciudad Real Madrid in 2005 etc.

Well, you cannot keep economy and success apart from each other since they are mutually dependent in world football today. More than ever you can argue.

But sure RM and FCB operate in a different economical environment than most clubs in the world and especially those in Spain - hence we have this two-horse race.

Anyway nice to have a debate for once other than the usual "Mourinho and his dark ants" nonsense that we see around here.

Valdano role is close to Hoeness role in Bayern Munich and yes i do believe we need to have a man like him overseeing the club , i don't believe in the English style of management because Spain is not England where u can find managers like Arsene / SAF where the fans are happy if they come 4th of won nothing.. Spanish culture is different and you know that
I don't want someone to come and change everything than if he fail you build again from scratch .. that would be a disaster ..
you need to have someone as a point of communication between the managerial needs and the club economical /presidential needs .
Valdano is the most suited due to his long service , knowledge and football principles which embodies Real Madrid.. yes he screwed up but didn't Jose, SAF , Hoeness screwed up a lot ? it's part of his job but we all trust him and trust the club best interest is in his heart and decision
he made a mistake hiring Pellegrini but back than we are all behind him because we also thought it was the best decision till Pellegrini short comings came in the CL crunch time and the clasico and we all realized it was a mistake because he lack that edge for a big club /big game (which Jose has )

I'm not saying Pellegrini is better than Mourinho but making it like the biggest thing and enough (enough is the key word here ) it's not...
Yes we love to have the record of X and Y but we also expect to move forward from this point , did the club move backwards this season ? yes is the answer

I cannot blame Perez for Jose , i can blame him for Pellegrini, Del Bosque , Luxemborgo etc for selling Makelele, for interfering back in the early 2003 in the line up and who stay on the bench and who play or later in selling Sneijder (even though economically they needed that so i kinda of understand ) etc but you know Jose had full authority so how can i blame Perez when he broke the club tradition and gave Jose full authority ? it's contradictory

With respect to Marca and AS you know there is plenty of idiots that are allowed to come in such programs and editors like Roncero in AS and others are as far away from any opinion except the king is dead , long live the king.. you've been bashing the media and now you take their program as a proof of opinion ?

Try the polls , the Spanish forums , the fans who boo'ed Jose in the last game and outside the training ground yesterday , by the polls conducted showing 65 % want him out

N.B if i missed a point let me know my son is not allowing me to write

 

[Poor_Sunyol]

I think Ozil will go actually. Plenty of suitors out there and he hasn't loved his time at Madrid. In regards to the election year, yes it is, but at the moment there is nobody standing against Perez, so he isn't under any great pressure to buy big (although knowing him he will anyway). All depends on Ronaldo.

 

[Kerrybai]

i was proven right and if we didn't screw up earlier you would have come empty handed from the league which u won be beating small teams and failing against all the big teams ..

Yourself and Raed have made some very good posts regarding Madrid which appreciate as it has helped me to understand what's has been going on in grater detail :beer2:

However I don't understand your point about Barca failing against all the big teams? . We failed to beat Madrid in the league but that was it, we have beaten everyone else. On top of that we are on course for 100 points so even if Madrid did not have a terrible run in Andalusia the league would have come right down to the last 1-2 rounds. I think it's a bit foolish to think otherwise.

Finally our cycle is over but football is cyclical. We have enough quality players plus the financial power to create a new cycle.

 

[MagIX]

Yourself and Raed have made some very good posts regarding Madrid which appreciate as it has helped me to understand what's has been going on in grater detail :beer2:

However I don't understand your point about Barca failing against all the big teams? . We failed to beat Madrid in the league but that was it, we have beaten everyone else. On top of that we are on course for 100 points so even if Madrid did not have a terrible run in Andalusia the league would have come right down to the last 1-2 rounds. I think it's a bit foolish to think otherwise.

Finally our cycle is over but football is cyclical. We have enough quality players plus the financial power to create a new cycle.

I agree with you, their posts also helpd me to understand the RM situation.
and yes, our cycle is over....with style (as usual) we are closing our cycle by winning the liga arty1:
+ WHAT a cycle!! we won everything there was to win in a spectacular way to intend soccer, admired wordlwide, and consider (maybe) the best team ever
+ Spain is grateful to this barcelona, because thanks to his players and his game they won WC and EC. It is no coincidence that the success of Barcelona coincide with the successes of the NT

 

[Beast]

Yourself and Raed have made some very good posts regarding Madrid which appreciate as it has helped me to understand what's has been going on in grater detail :beer2:

However I don't understand your point about Barca failing against all the big teams? . We failed to beat Madrid in the league but that was it, we have beaten everyone else. On top of that we are on course for 100 points so even if Madrid did not have a terrible run in Andalusia the league would have come right down to the last 1-2 rounds. I think it's a bit foolish to think otherwise.

Finally our cycle is over but football is cyclical. We have enough quality players plus the financial power to create a new cycle.

Thanks man
No you failed in all the big games mate , beating Milan would be your only highlight and they are not the same Milan .. truth is they shouldn't had you in this tight spot in the first place

however we are talking about 8 games in the Champions league with one win... is that Barca ?

Yes your cycle came to an end but you are not a one hit wonder so you won't turn to mediocrity hahaha , when the cycle is over you build a new one and it's up to those building decisions to establish if you will reach the same height or not...

I don't know why Cule's are edgy when the end of cycle word comes out.. it's pretty normal , cycles last for 4-5 years tops and than you start over etc
We all been there done that.. your team had 2 cycles every decade so do we ..
let me go back to history.. first 4 years of the 80's was yours than ours , first 4/5 years of the 90's yours than ours , first 4 years in the 2000's was ours than yours and until season 2010/2011.. last season with Pep was the beginning of decline , this year (forget the league , deep down you know how it came .. well done & all but failing to beat Real except once in the last 8/9 games ( the super cup first leg ) tell the whole story along with your CL form .. as i said you currently have the record of the worst agg defeat in the CL SF... you one once in your last 8 CL games.. come one guys it's pretty obvious

what you will do is what every team do .. replace the players and hope there will be someone close to Xavi , Puyol.. etc their absence will be felt especially for those who ride on those monsters game (and trust me every big game have those riders )

Will you see Xavi , Puyol etc on the same level as before ? no they will get worse or change their game Thiago or Cesc or X or Y will step in they won't give you the same but they will /should do their best .. it's a new dawn it's a new day .. will Messi flourish with them ? we will see
will you still rely on Messi for goal threat which makes all your big games easier to beat/contain ? remains to be seen

I think Ozil will go actually. Plenty of suitors out there and he hasn't loved his time at Madrid. In regards to the election year, yes it is, but at the moment there is nobody standing against Perez, so he isn't under any great pressure to buy big (although knowing him he will anyway). All depends on Ronaldo.

Ozil will not go .. i can bet you now on anything...
I actually want Ronaldo out.. for the balance of the team strength i'd like him to go.. it's the wisest thing to do and any money we will get is pure bonus now

 

[Beast]

I agree with you, their posts also helpd me to understand the RM situation.
and yes, our cycle is over....with style (as usual) we are closing our cycle by winning the liga arty1:
+ WHAT a cycle!! we won everything there was to win in a spectacular way to intend soccer, admired wordlwide, and consider (maybe) the best team ever
+ Spain is grateful to this barcelona, because thanks to his players and his game they won WC and EC. It is no coincidence that the success of Barcelona coincide with the successes of the NT

Absolutely, this team was one of the kind and reached new heights , you will always cherish them as a Cule and i believe what they achieved make them on par with our first Galactico's back in the 50's with the 2 CL difference only.. however i don't see any team in history close to those two teams

as for the liga.. you know how it was won but a league is a league and you will be congratulated for being more consistent but not stronger

 

[MrXavi_The_Midfield_King]

I dont think the cycle is over yet, but it all depends on the signings and whatnot over the summer, if they think they can get away without signing some quality at the back and upfront the cycle will certainly be over.

 

[Kerrybai]

@Beast fair enough we didn't do well in the CL but the way you worded your post - 'which u won be beating small teams and failing against all the big teams ..' I figured you meant that we failed to beat the big teams in La Liga which is only true if you consider Madrid the only big team ( which isn't exactly incorrect if that's what you meant )

Madrid certainly let the league slip with bad performances away ( mainly Andalusia I believe ). However I don't agree with your feeling that we only won the league because of Madrid's inconsistency. We had 55/57 at the beginning of the season. If we end with 95-100 points then that is a well earned league title, even with Madrid firing on all cylinders it is unlikely they would have surpassed the 95-100 mark.

You are right about the loss of Puyol and Xavi hitting us hard and yes it is unlikely that Thiago will ever fill his boots. Certain players like Pique will suffer with Puyol's decline, in fact Busquets could suffer without Xavi in front of him too. I also feel that Pedro has been badly exposed with our decline.

Thankfully Rossell has begun turning us into a financial monster, as Perez did for you guys.

 

[MagIX]

Absolutely, this team was one of the kind and reached new heights , you will always cherish them as a Cule and i believe what they achieved make them on par with our first Galactico's back in the 50's with the 2 CL difference only.. however i don't see any team in history close to those two teams

as for the liga.. you know how it was won but a league is a league and you will be congratulated for being more consistent but not stronger

:beer2:

yes i have to be honest, this season RM is stronger than Barca, but not the past season.

 

[Poor_Sunyol]

So we get we to the semi's of the CL, win the league by 11+ points and still don't beat any big teams. Hmmmmm? Luckily now that Jose has ruined Madrid , you will be rebuilding next year, so our 'end of cycle' will not be very pronounced. One of the reasons we were poor at the end of this season is because we haven't had any competition in La Liga for most of the year as you were blown away early. That lack of competition made us complacent and the team will be hurting over the summer making them hungry for next season. Alexis will be gone, Song will be gone, Villa will be gone and we will finally buy a real CB. The core of the team is fine, we suffered from poor squad management this season and with Tito being ill for most of the season, it has been difficult. Actually thinking about it, Mou is even more of a failure as he lost the league to a rookie manager and a caretaker manager! LOLOLOLOL!