Jose Mourinho

[knicks]

:S/

 

[Birdy]

@beast
i already replied to Raed..

You know better the whole 'inside ' stuff..

Firstly, as i said before i have not yet figured out what he wants to do, so i have not made my mind yet..
And i didnot use the word boring about murinho's style in madrid, cause one's preference in football is subjective.. But you cannot doubt that Murinho empoys defensive-oriented tactics..

You pointed yourself the difference.. Madrid has at best 6 to attack (and not more than 4 in the box in any case..), while barcelona can attack with 9 even 10 sometimes, and put as much as 7 in the box, in 'need to score' cases...
And i dont think he is even attacking with 6.. when Alonso and Kedhira stay outside of the box or even between box and halfway line they are not really attacking.. they are fuctioning auxilliary .. I have to see yet madrid trying to break opponents buses by pushing as much as 8 players near the borderlines of the box, something not only barcelona does, but a hell lot of teams in 'need to score' cases..
And when a manager needs men at the back to feel safe against weaker sides, then i think he is defensive-oriented...

This approach may be super-effective and can deliver titles, but you should admit it is different from the approach that delivered 2 CL for madrid, when the 'Galacticos' were only attacking.. Maybe they were naive defensively, and football has changed a lot since then (thats why Perez cannot repeat success by just buying what is out there), but they had the mentality to go out and attack...

And you should make a dinstinction about what is attacking football and what is cautious attacking, cause Jose is playing the second, be sure about that..

 

[Beast]

Not being "silly " when you attack is called being smart and Jose does play attacking football with Real ...
Spain in the WC was playing that exact same style "the Cautious " kind

Some of you need to watch more football and learn there is other tactics , other football schools and other idea's

 

[Birdy]

Hey, i did not mention anything about football schools and ideas, neither did i say that our style is the best... I didn't start any discussion of such a topic, so dont overwhelm yourself..And Spain pal is a different thing than barcelona, even though there are 8 barca players out of the staring eleven..

Ok, you have watched much more Madrid games this year than me...
from what i have seen, my opinion is stated above..
From what i have seen, even in games when you thrased the opposition (ex Ajax away), there was a limitation in the number of people joining the attack..

And i said before, attacking that does not mean naive or silly defence .. If you have a plan you can attack even with 9 men, without being naive..

There is a difference in mentality (i call this cautious attack), and compare this mentality as i said with the mentality in Galacticos era with del bosque..
i think there is a huge difference...

 

[woobie]

So, in a press conference today, Mourinho was quoted as saying all sorts of good things about Arbeloa (hard working, always gives 100%, etc etc etc). Looked to me like typical Mourinho buildup of a player he likes. My question for madridistas is...where does this leave Ramos? I've asked on this subject before but it is starting to look like Ramos is being put to one side (which leads to questions like where will he be playing next year). Any guidance, Madrid guys?

(Note, I read an Italian translation of the article, but I think it's a reasonably accurate translation).

 

[poncirus]

Training and learning the game since young ages, perfecting the style of play, level of tactical fluidity and ambition... in other words, effort to assemble this Barca team was monumental.

On the other hand, you have teams like Inter, Man City, Real... who buy some talented players, and play it strong, simple and opportunistic. There is no school or style in that. It works instantly. The way Barca, Arsenal or Dortmund are playing today, requires lots of time, knowledge, sacrifice and genuine love for the game.

Difference in invested work on perfecting of the game and making the system, and pure pleasure of watching the beauty of the game is enormous. Unfortunately, result gap isn't. And people see that with less effort and minimum time you can achieve result (which apparently is only that matters). And the game gets more boring and ugly.

 

[Beast]

Birdy the last thing i'll add is that the Galacticos went through several changes , at times Del Bosque played 3-5-2 with the Carlos/Salgado on the two wings and 3 CB in the middle and a DM
he also played with 2 DM's at times
needless to say Hierro was equivalent to two players all the time , however Del Bosque always preferred two player in the center or a winger /workhorse like in Galactico case it as Solari and Guti at times.
a change of the second Dm slotting beside Makelele or Redondo (before him ) was a common automatic practice in the second half of the game . with 2 DM as the first choice away from home as we seen vs Barcelona in the CL semi final in Camp Nou when Pavon slotted beside Hierro and Helguera moved in to partner Makelele in the middle of the midfield
Even in the WC you could see Del Bosque tendency to secure the centre of the pitch

So i don't know which galactico's you are talking about but you clearly think only Barca's way is the attacking way everything else is not (despite what you just said )

Kellie.. the reason you are asking is due to the old rumour of Ramos to Milan a rumor that kept surfacing in Milan based /biased media for the past 3 seasons as Maldini heir to the throne
Don't worry it's a reform .. not an exclusion , Ramos is not only Real Madrid most expensive Spanish player and bought by non other than Perez himself but he is also Real Madrid vice Captain and popular with the fans

 

[woobie]

While Milan could use a competent fullback, I wasn't actually thinking that, Gio. Not that I'd mind seeing Ramos at Milan now that you mention it.

I was actually thinking of the dressing room effect benching Ramos would have and what Mourinho's goal in doing so is. Arbeloa's good enough but Ramos is just a better player.

 

[AnfieldEd]

Simples. Arbeloa at right back and Ramos as the centre back. Ramos can be an amazing centre back, he has all the tools be world class in that position.

 

[Birdy]

Birdy the last thing i'll add is that the Galacticos went through several changes , at times Del Bosque played 3-5-2 with the Carlos/Salgado on the two wings and 3 CB in the middle and a DM
he also played with 2 DM's at times
needless to say Hierro was equivalent to two players all the time , however Del Bosque always preferred two player in the center or a winger /workhorse like in Galactico case it as Solari and Guti at times.
a change of the second Dm slotting beside Makelele or Redondo (before him ) was a common automatic practice in the second half of the game . with 2 DM as the first choice away from home as we seen vs Barcelona in the CL semi final in Camp Nou when Pavon slotted beside Hierro and Helguera moved in to partner Makelele in the middle of the midfield
Even in the WC you could see Del Bosque tendency to secure the centre of the pitch

So i don't know which galactico's you are talking about but you clearly think only Barca's way is the attacking way everything else is not (despite what you just said )

@beast
I love barca way, but that doesnot mean than i blindly reject all the others.. Dont be narrow-minded and dont overwhelm yourself into puting all barca fans into a "barca-'non barca'" attitude.. This is too childish to believe..

When Madrid won the CL in 2002, the mentality in which everyone was entering the pitch was different... It was to 'go out and attack', 'win by enforcing our style' and this is not what we see today from Murinho. This is more like 'speculate on the opponents weaknesses' and 'win,no matter how'..
The difference in mentality is crystal clear i think..
And IMO this is related to way of attacking..

And i would really like to hear what other club's fans say about Murinho's Real.. I believe that the vast majority will definetely not categorize this as attacking football..

 

[Beast]

While Milan could use a competent fullback, I wasn't actually thinking that, Gio. Not that I'd mind seeing Ramos at Milan now that you mention it.

I was actually thinking of the dressing room effect benching Ramos would have and what Mourinho's goal in doing so is. Arbeloa's good enough but Ramos is just a better player.

Nah Ramos is a joker.. he is a clown in the dressing room the party boy
Jose know Ramos is more talented and pulling such thing is to motivate the later to be more solid
in any case in tough games you will probably see Arbeloa on the left not on the right

@beast
I love barca way, but that doesnot mean than i blindly reject all the others.. Dont be narrow-minded and dont overwhelm yourself into puting all barca fans into a "barca-'non barca'" attitude.. This is too childish to believe..

When Madrid won the CL in 2002, the mentality in which everyone was entering the pitch was different... It was to 'go out and attack', 'win by enforcing our style' and this is not what we see today from Murinho. This is more like 'speculate on the opponents weaknesses' and 'win,no matter how'..
The difference in mentality is crystal clear i think..
And IMO this is related to way of attacking..

And i would really like to hear what other club's fans say about Murinho's Real.. I believe that the vast majority will definetely not categorize this as attacking football..

Birdy Real style in the CL 2002 wasn't go out and attack .. i'm sorry but that's not true and far from the truth
It was the exact same cautious approach but with a lot of success compared to Real now cause we were the strongest team in Europe
Yes there are games like we did Vs United home & away but that was 2003 as i said and gave example for in that same season you are talking about
Leverkusen wasn't an easy game and Real did go out and attack as you mention it was a balanced game from us and we managed to win it .
Your words and thoughts indicate you disregard any other style.. check your posts in the last pages.. when 6 attacker are still considered not attacking , what does ?
did you bother to watch us vs Espanyol with 10 men ? we had 8 men attacking with just Pepe & Ricardo in our half .... what non-Attacking you are talking about ?
Is Cruyff also wrong ? cause he praised Jose different approach with Real and emphasis on attack ? maybe Woobie (the Milanista ) would tell you about their experience vs Real this CL home & away.
Seriously you need to understand there is different schools cause your words are full of contradiction every other posts

 

[Birdy]

ok.. you know me better than i.. what can i say..

Cruyff also said that 'Murinho will never coach one of my teams'.. showing admiration,hm?

And about real in 2002, i definetely dont think that this is cautious attack.. No its not.. First priority back then was to attack, not to defend.. And attacking does not mean being naive in defending, i said that a thousand times... thats why makelele was there, to bring balace to the team..

When you suck makelele and were trying to feature becham,ronaldo,zidan,figo, raul all in the same XI without balancing the other parts of the team, maybe this was silly...

Leverkusen was a final man, and finals are always different...

there is no team that does not care at all to defend. The difference is where you are placing your priority...
Cautious attack is when your first priority is to defend and your second to attack.. And that what real is doing now, in all the games i have watched (no, i did not watch espanyol).. And there are many many examples of this..
cautious attack is Man UTD this year, Man city.. attacking spirit is Chelsea, Arsenal... Spot the difference pal, its easy...

 

[Beast]

In the semi's we also deployed a two man DM as i explained , Cautious attack priority is not to defend but not allow silly mistakes that can cost you ..
without cautious attack you are deploying the old Brazil motto you score 2 we score 3.. that's the difference nothing more..

Cruyff said that about Jose last summer and before but praised him right before the Clasico and praised how he changed his game with Real Madrid to suit the liga style..
so yeah he showed admiration for his tactics with Real you can check the clasico thread

 

[Birdy]

@Beast
Do not believe anything someone might go out and say in public.. There are games, mind ones and communicational ones...
Cruyff said that and almost 1 month before (22 october) murinho said 'look at my eyes, i have not slept a week' in response to Cruyff's 'he will never coach one of my teams'..

And i have a strong hunch that Cruyff dislikes Murinho a lot .. He chose Guardiola for the summer 2008 over Murinho, despite the huge gap between them back then..

What i explained in previous post is my definition about 'cautious attack'. anyone can form his own definition, so dont redifine the word in order to prove me that you are right!
my point is made and its clear..
and silly and naive approaches like 'the old Brazil motto you score 2 we score 3' are out of my scope of answer, i got this straight from the begining, why are you coming back to that again and again?

 

[Beast]

It's wasn't about liking or disliking .. he was analysing Jose time with Real till the Clasico
and why would i believe he hate him and disregard that he likes him if you say do not believe anything someone say in public ?
I'm coming back to the Brazil Motto cause you seem to have a single minded idea (without watching ) on how Jose deploy his tactics with Real which is really laughable cause if it proves anything it proves you haven't watched anything for Real this season
You don't know anything about Cautious attack or attack in the first place.. it seems that attacking with 6 men and controlling is cautious and counter attacking in that case i don't know what we call City who play with 8 -9 defensive minded players or Inter last year
... meh i can't teach you tactics on a thread but you should watch football more , cause you clearly lack that part greatly
you've been jumping from point to point , contradicting everything you say , got proven wrong about Real galactico era , about Jose current tactics and yet you have no clue what you are talking about

Come back in few years when you have an idea about football tactics