Kylian Mbappé

[Birdy]

On the other hand, what's not debatable, is that you're grossly overrating Klopp's Liverpool, their successes, and importance. Firmino was, in my opinion, a very good player and received lots of praise at the time. Everything else is a stretch.

It's irrelevant what one thinks about Klopp's Liverpool in general.

The analogy is between the importance in the role Firmino has to support Salah/Mane, and the importance of the role Busi had in supporting Xavi/Iniesta.
And the analogy stands.
Outside Barcaforum, and in fans talk (not coaches, not pundits), Busi never received that credit. Contrary to XAvi and Iniesta.
Likewise, if you look outside Liverpool fan base, Firmino is considered dispensable, and all the praise goes to Salah and Mane

 

[DonAK]

Even Liverpool fans want to move on from Firmino.

He used to be a very good player, but he hasn't been that for two years now.

 

[JamDav1982]

It's irrelevant what one thinks about Klopp's Liverpool in general.

The analogy is between the importance in the role Firmino has to support Salah/Mane, and the importance of the role Busi had in supporting Xavi/Iniesta.
And the analogy stands.
Outside Barcaforum, and in fans talk (not coaches, not pundits), Busi never received that credit. Contrary to XAvi and Iniesta.
Likewise, if you look outside Liverpool fan base, Firmino is considered dispensable, and all the praise goes to Salah and Mane

That is not true.

Busquets has had high praise all throughout his career and is considered an all time great midfielder.

Cant just make things up and claim as fact.

Firmino gets a lot of praise and borderline cliche to claim he is under valued.

 

[Birdy]

Busquets has had high praise all throughout his career and is considered an all time great midfielder.

Cant just make things up and claim as fact.

Not outside Barca organism and Barca fanbase.
I remember very well, and until today If you just look around other fanbases you will not see much credit even for his past

 

[JamDav1982]

Not outside Barca organism and Barca fanbase.
I remember very well, and until today If you just look around other fanbases you will not see much credit even for his past

Yes he did and by plenty pundits/coaches/players away from Barca.

Was highly regarded as important part of best midfield of all time.

Who gives a fuck what some bitter fans might think of him? Within the world of football he was highly regarded and not just by those that follow Barca.

Firmino is one of those players that a lot of folk like to make out they see the value others dont and claim out he is not given credit deserves when rally he is and most folk see what he does and doesnt bring.

Same as 'Scholes was under rated' and many others. When in reality were not but still gets claimed.

 

[Laplacian]

sell your starting stiker (who would buy him?) and replace him with a completely different player who you try to turn into a striker? Brilliant plan

ahhh i seee you're also making fun of-

Also Birdy seems to have a thing for arguing for players whom play like shit for several years. That BBZ contrarian syndrome...?

 

[Birdy]

@JamDav

Sorry, it's just not true. Because you say it, doesn't mean that was the case. Don't forge your personal perception on what other people thought.

I am not talking about coaches/players/pundits. Said that from the beginning.
I am talking about fanbases around the globe. Which praised very well Xavi, Iniesta (and Messi of course), even though they were not Barca fans.

This is an article from 2012, where football journalist just wonder why Busquets is not getting credit and is so underrated:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...gio-busquets-is-barcas-most-underrated-player

And there is ton of other evidence that shows that was the perception, if you don't remeber

 

[Joan]

It's irrelevant what one thinks about Klopp's Liverpool in general.

The analogy is between the importance in the role Firmino has to support Salah/Mane, and the importance of the role Busi had in supporting Xavi/Iniesta.
And the analogy stands.
Outside Barcaforum, and in fans talk (not coaches, not pundits), Busi never received that credit. Contrary to XAvi and Iniesta.
Likewise, if you look outside Liverpool fan base, Firmino is considered dispensable, and all the praise goes to Salah and Mane

Not relevant for the analogy, but for the claim that Firmino is one of the most underrated players ever. In case he was part of some legendary side, that might back your claim.

Busquets is highly regarded within the world of football. Listen to commentators, or read what sports journalists have to say. And so is Firmino, at least was while he was in his prime. He received lots of praise for his contributions despite low numbers. But was never that good to be among 'the most underrated players ever', to begin with.

 

[JamDav1982]

@JamDav

Sorry, it's just not true. Because you say it, doesn't mean that was the case. Don't forge your personal perception on what other people thought.

I am not talking about coaches/players/pundits. Said that from the beginning.
I am talking about fanbases around the globe. Which praised very well Xavi, Iniesta (and Messi of course), even though they were not Barca fans.

This is an article from 2012, where football journalist just wonder why Busquets is not getting credit and is so underrated:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...gio-busquets-is-barcas-most-underrated-player

Busquets has always been highly regarded in football you are trying to focus on bitter fans.

As I said it is fashionable to claim some players are 'underrated' as it makes folk feel like they see some truth others dont and understand the game better.

But it is like Scholes or Firmino so many folk claim they are under rated it becomes a cliche and truth is all three are given praise by those that matter.

 

[Birdy]

Not relevant for the analogy, but for the claim that Firmino is one of the most underrated players ever. In case he was part of some legendary side, that might back your claim.

Busquets is highly regarded within the world of football. Listen to commentators, or read what sports journalists have to say. And so is Firmino, at least was while he was in his prime. He received lots of praise for his contributions despite low numbers. But was never that good to be among 'the most underrated players ever', to begin with.

Not talking about pundits, journalists, and commentators. Said that twice already.
I am talking about fans.

In recent history, Klopp's liverpool is one of the best sides, and is discussed by fans around the globe.
And within that discussion, Firmino is highly underrated

 

[Joan]

But it is like Scholes or Firmino so many folk claim they are under rated it becomes a cliche and truth is all three are given praise by those that matter.

And in general. Even among other fanbases, if that's somehow relevant. Quite a few posters here praised Firmino's best years and rate him highly. And this is no Lpool forum.

And he's apparently one of the most underrated players ever.

 

[Morten]

Not talking about pundits, journalists, and commentators. Said that twice already.
I am talking about fans.

In recent history, Klopp's liverpool is one of the best sides, and is discussed by fans around the globe.
And within that discussion, Firmino is highly underrated

Not really.
You should have a look at his xG compared to his actual goal tally for the previous two seasons btw.

 

[Birdy]

As I said it is fashionable to claim some players are 'underrated' as it makes folk feel like they see some truth others dont and understand the game better.

But it is like Scholes or Firmino so many folk claim they are under rated it becomes a cliche and truth is all three are given praise by those that matter.

I don't know or care if it's fashionable.
But it shows many things.
If a player is constantly picked by all coaches that worked with him, but fans still fail to see why, then the problem lies with the fans.
Yes there are things many fans do not understand, and coaches understand the sport better.

 

[Birdy]

Not really.
You should have a look at his xG compared to his actual goal tally for the previous two seasons btw.

I know about that, and his conversion rate is bad the last two seasons.
But what this has to do?
Besides that's a discussion among journalists and pundits again.

 

[Morten]

I know about that, and his conversion rate is bad the last two seasons.
But what this has to do?
Besides that's a discussion among journalists and pundits again.

That he is not underrated, pros and cons etc.