La Liga 2020/21

[Messi983]

Despite a more positive performance in the 1-1 draw against Elche, despite having the backing of the squad and despite the team escaping from the relegation zone, Celta Vigo have decided to fire coach Oscar Garcia. He becomes the first coaching casualty of the 2020/21 season in LaLiga Santander.

Not surprising.

Celta will try to sign Marcelino but he's apparently waiting to get an offer from Bilbao (their manager Gaizka Garitano is also under a lot of pressure) according to Marca.

 

[malvolio]

Despite a more positive performance in the 1-1 draw against Elche, despite having the backing of the squad and despite the team escaping from the relegation zone, Celta Vigo have decided to fire coach Oscar Garcia. He becomes the first coaching casualty of the 2020/21 season in LaLiga Santander.

Not surprising.

Celta will try to sign Marcelino but he's apparently waiting to get an offer from Bilbao (their manager Gaizka Garitano is also under a lot of pressure) according to Marca.

so much for our good performance in vigo. turns out we only managed to get results against shit teams this season.

 

[Birdy]

Ad1 - I edited the post with stats. Offensive balance is clear between the two



Edit: another little qualitative stat is that at Borussia almost all of their starters involved in attack (everyone but CBs) outperform their xA (or in other words get more assists from more tricky actions and movements and forwards scoring in more difficult conditions), Sancho nearly doubled his.
At Real the only ones in 2 seasons to manage this are CKMF & Marcelo.

Go figure assessing how good Hakimi was for them

Ad2 - I'm not widening anything. You're the one pointing to Zidane as the sole reason for him leaving which is drivel
Ad3 - I didn't say buy for 40, I said net operation loss which means the difference between what we sell him for to Inter and what we get him back for, is likely to be 40-60. And that's far from a fantasy. Hakimi wanted a clause included to not close the door to Madrid and he'll be 26 when his contract is up down there. Can easily force negotiations if he wants to return and help hike price down.
Ad4 - yeah, verbatim he said Zidane is the reason, hence you lied about the 'out of his plans'. The former can mean anything from 'I don't like the guy' to 'i love him but there's 2 other dudes'. Simple. Makes every bit of sense to assume he pointed out Carvajal presence being a problem as he's a very very good RB who'd curb Achrafs progress and continuity for at least 2 seasons.

The fact that nobody wanted to buy Odriozola is just common sense. It's Covid, player barely had football in 19/20 and would need to be moved on permanently just to make room on the bench which is not even what Hakimi wants.

Can come back to this some other day but don't really see reason why. Your black and white approach to Zidane being this terrible coordinator when he has sodall say in most cases other than occasionally giving a nod to a player is tiresome.

ad1: Thanks for the stats! It's the only substantial argument you have provided after 5 posts.
I will get back to you on them.
ad2: Prime reason, not sole reason. If Hakimini was in his plans, someone else would have left, or some different transfer strategy would have materialized
ad3: Net operation loss. Now you are talking correctly. You see why this could not be a devised transfer strategy by any club
ad4: There are many polite ways to say 'you are out of my plans'. One very polite way to say it is 'I think that it's better for your development to seek out an opportunity at some other club', and all the other quotes you provide.
Playing with words will not cut it for you.
Hakimi was out of his plans in all possible ways you can phrase it.
He would have played as many minutes as Puig and Alena are going to play for Koeman this season.
Period.


PS: My approach towards Zidane is not black and white. That's you downplaying my point.
I made a clear argument about his unwillingness/inability to incorporate non-established players, which is telling when in 2020/21 at least 6 basic members of the 2016/7 team are still starters, while at the same time all promising younger players are either sold or loaned out.

 

[El Gato]

ad1: Thanks for the stats! It's the only substantial argument you have provided after 5 posts.
I will get back to you on them.

No problem.
Bet you will. (Code for ‘damn I didn?t read them up, didn?t expect it to be this close and I can’t form a counter argument quickly to make my prematurely made conclusion seem thought out from the start, so I’ll just stall here’.)

ad2: Prime reason, not sole reason. If Hakimini was in his plans, someone else would have left, or some different transfer strategy would have materialized

No they wouldn’t. There was no buyer for Odriozola. You can keep making things up on the spot to suit your conclusion, you haven’t presented any facts to back it up yet so it’s all cuckooland.

ad3: Net operation loss. Now you are talking correctly. You see why this could not be a devised transfer strategy by any club

RM worked with buybacks for years which are by definition a net loss business. Made losses on Morata, Granero, Carvajal, Mariano operations before. Only difference is scale (pre Neymar world) and consideration of where Hakimi had gone - a club who wouldn?t agree to a straight buyback so Real agreed to the sale to get any kind of money in a world where the likes of Hakimi are the only players anyone is interested in from that Madrid side.
If Hakimi is successful and improves on defence, valuation will rise to the region of 100-130M and fee will be a fraction of that as contract winds down. All it takes is Hakimi desire to return and help negotiate a better price.
And if he’s not successful, price stays where it is and RM buys cheaper or passes on him altogether.

ad4: There are many polite ways to say 'you are out of my plans'. One very polite way to say it is 'I think that it's better for your development to seek out an opportunity at some other club', and all the other quotes you provide.
Playing with words will not cut it for you.

The agent never said the words and your interpretation is as valid as any other so you can stop presenting it as fact. What the known fact is is that Hakimi agent said Zidane made a choice and highlighted Carvajal presence was a factor. Why would it be a factor? Because he?s as good a player statistically on offense and better on defence so would likely play as much at the very least. Player knew he?d have to immediately prove to be an upgrade to cement his spot and get the minutes he wants and needs to improve.

Hence chose to go somewhere where off the bat he plays in his favourite position (with no winger ahead of him) and little to no competition.

Hakimi was out of his plans in all possible ways you can phrase it.

Prove it.
Not your interpretation of a vague agent line - cold hard evidence. What?s your best piece of evidence for Hakimi not being in his plans? Numbers or direct Zidane words.

He would have played as many minutes as Puig and Alena are going to play for Koeman this season.
Period.

Yup, you don?t know any of that. Get back to facts.

I made a clear argument about his unwillingness/inability to incorporate non-established players, which is telling when in 2020/21 at least 6 basic members of the 2016/7 team are still starters, while at the same time all promising younger players are either sold or loaned out.

Being vague as fuck here. Define ?incorporate?.
He?s included Mendy, Fede, Vinicius, Rodrygo and previously Asensio, Casemiro and Kovacic when they weren?t established themselves. Also played Vallejo whenever he was fit and ready and we needed a CB. Of the players he gave far less time to there are Ceballos, Llorente, Odriozola and Jović.

Keep telling me how your assessment isn?t black and white and how he doesn?t give anyone new a chance.

 

[Birdy]

No problem.
Bet you will. (Code for ‘damn I didn?t read them up, didn?t expect it to be this close and I can’t form a counter argument quickly to make my prematurely made conclusion seem thought out from the start, so I’ll just stall here’.)


Being vague as fuck here. Define ?incorporate?.
He?s included Mendy, Fede, Vinicius, Rodrygo and previously Asensio, Casemiro and Kovacic when they weren?t established themselves. Also played Vallejo whenever he was fit and ready and we needed a CB. Of the players he gave far less time to there are Ceballos, Llorente, Odriozola and Jović.

Keep telling me how your assessment isn?t black and white and how he doesn?t give anyone new a chance.

I will answer only the three points above, because for the rest is pointless endeavor. I have already answered you, but you refuse to see it.

For the first, I read them.
I don't devise answers on the spot (unlike some other people here), and I have to find time to look at some more data before answering. Respect that.

For the buy-back close: apart from the fact that Hakimi does not have that (which you concede, hence the operation was far from ideal), it is a clause that when the price is not low (selling for 5m for example, with buy-back for 10m) implies a disbelief from the selling club in the development of the player.

For the last, there is nothing vague. You cite players that are not starters and that he uses to rotate his starters.
The fact that he rotates a lot in easy games does not mean that he is believing in any of the players you make it out as if.
He has included Fede and Mendy only. No one else.
Criterion is who starts important games or who is at least in contention for starting. And we have only those two new incorporations from 2017, when everyone else is fit.


Vinicius is playing because he has no other option, his starting LW is permanently injured. Rodrygo is a sub.
Casemiro was established and was a starter already when Benitez was in charge.
Kovasic was never a starter, and was always on the shadow of Modric, Kroos and Casemiro.
And Asensio played in his first spell as much as Rodrygo is playing now, which is: not that much...

 

[El Gato]

it is a clause that when the price is not low (selling for 5m for example, with buy-back for 10m) implies a disbelief from the selling club in the development of the player.

Huh??
It?s a clause routinely used in football by most big sides where player is promising, but better alternatives are already in the club and would curb his development. In all cases, cheap or expensive alike. There?s no element of loosely defined faith (belief or disbelief) here. If you have areas to improve and team has a player as good or better than you who will continue to be so for several years, you?re likely to be sold with buyback. Been done since dawn of time.

For the last, there is nothing vague. You cite players that are not starters and that he uses to rotate his starters.
The fact that he rotates a lot in easy games does not mean that he is believing in any of the players you make it out as if.
He has included Fede and Mendy only. No one else.
Criterion is who starts important games or who is at least in contention for starting. And we have only those two new incorporations from 2017, when everyone else is fit.

Vinicius is playing because he has no other option, his starting LW is permanently injured. Rodrygo is a sub.
Casemiro was established and was a starter already when Benitez was in charge.
Kovasic was never a starter, and was always on the shadow of Modric, Kroos and Casemiro.
And Asensio played in his first spell as much as Rodrygo is playing now, which is: not that much...

So it?s strictly new starters you?re fixated on, not even ‘incorporation’ of new players Name one side which replaced all ageing seniors unilaterally with the new young talent when results slumped. One coach.

Casemiro was not established. 4 months of football into Benitez reign where he didn?t even start a Clasico is zero establishment, was as green as any other relatively young player.
Asensio played far more than Rodrygo, 2000 minutes in his first season with the team (half of all available in all competitions). 400 more. Increased by 900 the following year. ‘Not that much’
Vinicius for all intents and purposes could and probably even should have been on loan for 2 years now. Zidane kept him.

Giving 33-50% of all available minutes to players this unpolished is normal for elite sides. Zidane done exactly that in vast majority of cases (Jovic being a flagship exception). Only those that show maturity or obvious physical traits that surpass current seniors ever get priority.

 

[Andresito]

Torreira also positive together with Suarez for the game against Barca.

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

Any chance Joao Felix got a cold?

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Any chance Joao Felix got a cold?

He will be the most dangerous man. He has really improved compared to last season. Its time for Dembele to show who is the boss.

 

[El Gato]

Very predictable but still bonkers 11 to see

Didn't know Carvajal was this close to being ready to come back

 

[Andresito]

Enormous amount of experience in that midfield three of Parejo, Trigueros and Iborra.

Varane captain. Let's see if he first and foremost can sort himself out without Ramos.

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

Gerard Moreno hat trick please.

 

[Andresito]

Hazard looks pretty thin compared to before

 

[El Gato]

How many times out of 10 would have Benzema missed that?

Correction, he wouldn't even make it to the cross

 

[serghei]

Should be offside. Madrid strikes again with their best player.

How can you not give offside when Vazquez attacks the ball while in offside? This league is a fucking joke. Flag should have been up the moment Vazquez moved towards the ball.