Lionel Messi - v7

[Gnidrologist]

You forgot Puyol, Alba and Fabregas. All of them non-foreigners. The titles winning Spain NT was basically La Masia + couple of RM players and one or two from elsewhere. BBZ talking out of his ass again.

 

[Hardy]

big night for Leo

 

[Andresito]

Smells like goals

 

[El Gato]

He hasn't retired from NT?

 

[Vilarrubi]

1:30am.... ouch. Thankfully his 2nd game is 21:00.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

1:30am.... ouch. Thankfully his 2nd game is 21:00.

1.30am ?

So I wont sleep much...

 

[BBZ8800]

You forgot Puyol, Alba and Fabregas. All of them non-foreigners. The titles winning Spain NT was basically La Masia + couple of RM players and one or two from elsewhere. BBZ talking out of his ass again.

Lol:
Luis Gustavo, Jonathan Dos Santos, Gio Dos Santos, Rafinha, Dongou, Ken Ella, Bakoyock, Bagnack, Julio Martinez, Illie, Godswill, Babunski, Ebungue, Ebwelle, Munir, Ondoa, Kaptum, Onana, Tounkara, Seck, Ayala, Park, Abiu, Brahima Fati, Sorpreson, Spanoudakis, Lee, Gyeolhee, Djemba Ba, Adenkanye, Lederman, Dialo Ba, Kabashi, Kubo, Abaida, Seydu, Mhand-Yamna, Chakkour, Ie, Meva, Timur, Zalzman, Enguene, Rolon, El Ouriachi, Serroukh, Meva, Tugarinov, Sanabria, Fung, Gilsenan, Agostinho.

Majority of them bought in the span of 5-6 years from 2006-2012.

Do you think that we were the first European club with the ban for no reason?

We were traveling around the world and buying 100 kids with potential.
Then they were trained at La Masia and some succeeded.

The same was happening in Spain.
We were recruiting 100s of domestic kids from Spain.

Today, we can't buy foreigners anymore and about Spanish kids, more clubs have good scouting network.

I love your romantic ideas, if you believe that La Masia was successful out of a pure magic.

Yeah, magic and monopol, like always in sport and in everything where there is money.

The same as how French NT has tons of good players today.
Because almost the whole Africa has a dual citizenship with France and France has the largest talent pool in Europe paired with good academies.

In short:
= the largest talent pool + youth academy = you'll rule the world.

Barca don't have as large talent pool anymore due to FIFA's new rules and now La Masia talents suck.

What a shocking turn of events.

 

[serghei]

Barca and Madrid will always attract the best talents in Spain. As for the players outside Spain, the very young ones, they usually go through the top teams in those respective countries first.

Even in Spain, a lot of players go through regional strong teams first. Say if you are a talented player from the Basque region, you're more likely to be playing for Sociedad/Bilbao than Barca right away. Because Sociedad and Bilbao are more present in the region (in terms of scouting, fans and so on) than Barca and Madrid can ever be. That basque talented kid is obviously a football fan, and if he is a football fan he probably is either a fan of Sociedad or Bilbao, more than a fan of a more global club that is not so close to his home, family and friends.

For example, Barca / Madrid would mostly get access to a high profile South American talent through clubs like Internacional, Gremio, Santos, Flamengo, River Plate, Racing Club, Estudiantes etc. Through a Portuguese talent through clubs like Porto, Sporting, Benfica, Braga.

And so on.

 

[Rory]

Lol:
Luis Gustavo, Jonathan Dos Santos, Gio Dos Santos, Rafinha, Dongou, Ken Ella, Bakoyock, Bagnack, Julio Martinez, Illie, Godswill, Babunski, Ebungue, Ebwelle, Munir, Ondoa, Kaptum, Onana, Tounkara, Seck, Ayala, Park, Abiu, Brahima Fati, Sorpreson, Spanoudakis, Lee, Gyeolhee, Djemba Ba, Adenkanye, Lederman, Dialo Ba, Kabashi, Kubo, Abaida, Seydu, Mhand-Yamna, Chakkour, Ie, Meva, Timur, Zalzman, Enguene, Rolon, El Ouriachi, Serroukh, Meva, Tugarinov, Sanabria, Fung, Gilsenan, Agostinho.

.

Which of those players succeeded?

 

[Gnidrologist]

Lol:
Luis Gustavo, Jonathan Dos Santos, Gio Dos Santos, Rafinha, Dongou, Ken Ella, Bakoyock, Bagnack, Julio Martinez, Illie, Godswill, Babunski, Ebungue, Ebwelle, Munir, Ondoa, Kaptum, Onana, Tounkara, Seck, Ayala, Park, Abiu, Brahima Fati, Sorpreson, Spanoudakis, Lee, Gyeolhee, Djemba Ba, Adenkanye, Lederman, Dialo Ba, Kabashi, Kubo, Abaida, Seydu, Mhand-Yamna, Chakkour, Ie, Meva, Timur, Zalzman, Enguene, Rolon, El Ouriachi, Serroukh, Meva, Tugarinov, Sanabria, Fung, Gilsenan, Agostinho.

Yes, lol, becaue none of them has ever come relevant to Barca's and Spain' success.

The same was happening in Spain.
We were recruiting 100s of domestic kids from Spain.

Barca's privilege in this is in no way superior than other major clubs is.

I love your romantic ideas, if you believe that La Masia was successful out of a pure magic.

"Romantic"? You wot, mate? It was already stated that we got very lucky. Just like MU got lucky with their class of 92.

The same as how French NT has tons of good players today.
Because almost the whole Africa has a dual citizenship with France and France has the largest talent pool in Europe paired with good academies.

Except players that were at core of Barcas and Spains golden generation were all ethnically spaniard (or catalan, basque or whatever sub-spanish tribe there is). Agree about France though. It's "the best of Africa" lately.

Barca don't have as large talent pool anymore due to FIFA's new rules and now La Masia talents suck.

What a shocking turn of events.

It does NOT suck, it just doesn't have "once in te century" golden generation coming to ripe currently. It just returned to normal.

 

[BBZ8800]

Which of those players succeeded?

It's irrelevant.

The point is that Barca was literally buying 100 of kids with potential from all over the world and 1000s of Spanish kids of all ages.

Then we taught those kids Barca's style.
And from 1000s of kids, we got a few gems.

Under the current rules, we would never be able to buy young Messi, for example.

Also, if out of these foreign talents only 2-3 turned good, then you realize that La Masis wasn't magical but only we had the largest pool of players.

Serghei, Xavi, Busi, Puyol, Cesc, Alba, Valdes are from around Barca.
So, I agree, there was no monopol there, they are guys from our region.

But Iniesta is from Albacete.
Pedro is from Tenerife.
Thiago is an Italian born Brasilian who signed for Barca aged 14, coming from Brasil.

So, Messi, Thiago, Iniesta, Pedro = it is questionable whether we would be able to sign those guys under the current rules and with more domestic competition for young players.

 

[BBZ8800]

It does NOT suck, it just doesn't have "once in te century" golden generation coming to ripe currently. It just returned to normal.

Remember more factors:
In the 80s, 90s we were allowed to have 3 non European players.
Modric, Rakitic, Kovacic, Pjanic, Jovic, Oblak.
They were all nonEU in the past.
EU had only a few countries, so Barca had to fill the team with Spanish, Dutch, French players and 3 Brasilians.
In that time, it was easier for Xavi and Puyol to develop, because they fought with only a few European countries and their players.

So:
1. We are buying less foreign kids today, so = less quality long term
2. We are signing less domestic kids = less quality long term
3. Teams are filled with Modrics, Rakitics and 100s of formerly nonEU players, plus majority of South American players cheat with grandmothers and they all have dual citizenship today.
So, Puig will get less chances today than Puig from 90s.

On top of all, football evolved so the jump from Barca B to first team is bigger.
Which means that you need more minutes to improve.
And since we have more nonEU players, it is harder to get those minutes.

All in all, imo
1. Our pool of talented kids is way smaller due to new rules
2. And it is harder to jump from B team to the 1st team

And today, it is all about money and results RIGHT NOW.

So, from all perspectives, the future of La Masia looks very grey, with or without Barto.

 

[Birdy]

La Masia will be able to still attract kids because of its reputation and status.

 

[Jadentheman]

Barca and Madrid will always attract the best talents in Spain. As for the players outside Spain, the very young ones, they usually go through the top teams in those respective countries first.

Even in Spain, a lot of players go through regional strong teams first. Say if you are a talented player from the Basque region, you're more likely to be playing for Sociedad/Bilbao than Barca right away. Because Sociedad and Bilbao are more present in the region (in terms of scouting, fans and so on) than Barca and Madrid can ever be. That basque talented kid is obviously a football fan, and if he is a football fan he probably is either a fan of Sociedad or Bilbao, more than a fan of a more global club that is not so close to his home, family and friends.

For example, Barca / Madrid would mostly get access to a high profile South American talent through clubs like Internacional, Gremio, Santos, Flamengo, River Plate, Racing Club, Estudiantes etc. Through a Portuguese talent through clubs like Porto, Sporting, Benfica, Braga.

And so on.

That's usually after they get promoted thorugh the youth ranks for their domestic teams. And it's more reaasonable for players both the players and local clubs if they to move up through their local teams anyway. Most players that go international for youth teams generally don't pan out well compared to those that make a debut and rip it in their domestic teams. Plus the local clubs can get more of a payout by selling them as an A or B team player.

Messi is an anomaly of course although had he stayed in Argentina he would have been making waves and getting on Barca's radar but probably wouldn't have picked them considering the top and popular teams in the 00s.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Remember more factors:
In the 80s, 90s we were allowed to have 3 non European players.
Modric, Rakitic, Kovacic, Pjanic, Jovic, Oblak.
They were all nonEU in the past.
EU had only a few countries, so Barca had to fill the team with Spanish, Dutch, French players and 3 Brasilians.
In that time, it was easier for Xavi and Puyol to develop, because they fought with only a few European countries and their players.

So:
1. We are buying less foreign kids today, so = less quality long term
2. We are signing less domestic kids = less quality long term
3. Teams are filled with Modrics, Rakitics and 100s of formerly nonEU players, plus majority of South American players cheat with grandmothers and they all have dual citizenship today.
So, Puig will get less chances today than Puig from 90s.

On top of all, football evolved so the jump from Barca B to first team is bigger.
Which means that you need more minutes to improve.
And since we have more nonEU players, it is harder to get those minutes.

All in all, imo
1. Our pool of talented kids is way smaller due to new rules
2. And it is harder to jump from B team to the 1st team

And today, it is all about money and results RIGHT NOW.

So, from all perspectives, the future of La Masia looks very grey, with or without Barto.

This is all irrelevant to your initial argument that Barca somehow cheated into success because buying foreign players. Much of the golden generation core were not just spaniards, but catalan on top of that. Barca would have them even in times before Bosman ruling.