Lionel Messi - v7

serghei

Senior Member
That's usually after they get promoted thorugh the youth ranks for their domestic teams. And it's more reaasonable for players both the players and local clubs if they to move up through their local teams anyway. Most players that go international for youth teams generally don't pan out well compared to those that make a debut and rip it in their domestic teams. Plus the local clubs can get more of a payout by selling them as an A or B team player.

Messi is an anomaly of course although had he stayed in Argentina he would have been making waves and getting on Barca's radar but probably wouldn't have picked them considering the top and popular teams in the 00s.

Yea, I'd say that is the most common trajectory, and it's perfectly normal to be so.

Regional club -> progression through the youth ranks -> transfer to bigger team in the region (basically, the likes of Bilbao, Valencia, Sevilla these types of teams) -> transfer to Barcelona/Madrid or abroad (Manchester City seems to be "THE" abroad destination for Spanish talent, see cases of David Silva, Rodri, Laporte, now Ferran Torres and so on).

Of course, some select few players are discovered straight by a big club in the region, like a Sevilla, a Valencia, or a Sociedad or so in Spain. Or even by a huge club in the country, like a Barca/Madrid.

I'm not very familiar with Messi's case, but as far as I've read online, Barca invested in him at a point where he wasn't a sure superstar. He had health problems at the time. A thing like that happens rarely.

Most players that go international for youth teams generally don't pan out well compared to those that make a debut and rip it in their domestic teams.

That's very important, and it's because they are taken from their homes, their family and friends at an age when they are not mature enough to transition into a full-on professional football career. So, most of them get lost on the way, in a different environment, often with a different language, and culture.
 
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Judoman

Senior Member
It's irrelevant.

The point is that Barca was literally buying 100 of kids with potential from all over the world and 1000s of Spanish kids of all ages.

Then we taught those kids Barca's style.
And from 1000s of kids, we got a few gems.

Under the current rules, we would never be able to buy young Messi, for example.

Also, if out of these foreign talents only 2-3 turned good, then you realize that La Masis wasn't magical but only we had the largest pool of players.

Serghei, Xavi, Busi, Puyol, Cesc, Alba, Valdes are from around Barca.
So, I agree, there was no monopol there, they are guys from our region.

But Iniesta is from Albacete.
Pedro is from Tenerife.
Thiago is an Italian born Brasilian who signed for Barca aged 14, coming from Brasil.

So, Messi, Thiago, Iniesta, Pedro = it is questionable whether we would be able to sign those guys under the current rules and with more domestic competition for young players.

You started this theory about Barca cheating with foreign talent and ended up naming pretty much HG talent. You are trying to find bad things where there are none. Every big club in Europe does the same thing.
 

Rory

Senior Member
This is all irrelevant to your initial argument that Barca somehow cheated into success because buying foreign players. Much of the golden generation core were not just spaniards, but catalan on top of that. Barca would have them even in times before Bosman ruling.

Yeah this was more what I was getting at too. The players we 'cheated' off other clubs all turned out mostly shit. The ones that were a success were legitimately brought to La Masia.
 

snowy

Well-known member
Only saw the 2nd half. He created a few odd chances here and there but kinda poor otherwise. Still the best on the pitch but doesn't much much...

The midfielders seemed content with the 1 score lead and kept making lazy backpasses and forcing the keeper to kick long and lose the ball. Only traction forward was when either Ocampos or Messi dropped back to help.

If they keep on playing the likes of de Paul, Otamendi, Paredes and Tagliafico... they'll be lucky to make it past the qualifying rounds.

That was vomitball from both sides.
 

vegitot

Senior Member
Argentina just play after one year but they look bad. They may have chance to win Copa America but no chance in World cup against team like Germany, France...
 

Barcilliant

Senior Member
Every passing day Messi looks more mortal.
Board really missed a trick by not selling him. This sentimental streak never bodes well. A certain AC Milan was that way and look where they are now.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
You started this theory about Barca cheating with foreign talent and ended up naming pretty much HG talent. You are trying to find bad things where there are none. Every big club in Europe does the same thing.

Why were we the first one in the world then with the ban?

1. Either FIFA/UEFA hate us
2. Or all big clubs are breaking the rules with youth players but we were breaking it the most

An analogy is: you know how Psg was spending too much on transfers and wages so Uefa had to impose some fair play restrictions regarding how much you could spend in one summer.

You could say that at least 5-6 big teams are doing that.
But Psg was breaking that rule the most signing Neymar and Mbappe in one summer iirc.

So, you see, what Psg/City were doing with oil money and transfers, we were doing with youths and La Masia.

Iirc, back then there were some numbers floating around about how many offenses each club made regarding youths.

And majority of big clubs made offenses, but iirc, they had like 13, 20 or 25 offenses.
Barca had something like 80 offenses.

Anyway, this topic is an example what I hate with football fans.
They decline to accept bad things about their legends or things which they love.

For years it was a blasphemy to write any bad things about Pep.
Pep was God.
All of his defeats with Bayern and City were bad luck, bad fits, refs, individual mistakes etc.
It was never him.
I mean, he created a golden era, he can't be wrong.
Today, half of the fans get angry if you say that current Messi is a tactical mess and not a difference maker at all anymore.
And now you have this La Masia example.
Majority of fans are probably angry about these posts because they don't want to read about La Masia and cheating.
For them, La Masia is a fairytale place from our past where the best things in our past happened due to a hard work, knowledge and skills. No cheating, shady things, monopol and other bad things happened.

You can also be a Barca's fan and accept that magic rarely happens and usually the richest (Barca, Psg, Bayern, Juve) teams win.
Or the most corrupted teams win (Real, Juve).

Where there is a lot of money involved, there are usually tons of shady things.

For a few years we were selling shit about mes que un club, only to return later to Galacticos strategy, cheating enormously on Ney's transfer, getting helped by Nike with Brasilian players, money laundering under Laporta and Gaspart, tax frauds by top players, cheating on La Masia.

I am not saying that we are bad guys.
But we surely ain't the good guys, lol.

All big clubs are cheaters, corrupted, full of shady deals, money laundering, bending the rules in 100s of ways.
Fifa and Uefa are also insanely corrupted from bottom to top.
That's life, that's money talk.

All in all, we broke the highest number of rules in the world regarding our youth academy.

Sorry to burst "La Masia is an honest, happy and magical place" bubble.

La Masia is a top academy, paired with lots of money invested, breaking the rules and monopolizing the world.
Without it, today it's = "it is what it is"
 
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Porque

Senior Member
We were the one found out because we were the one who slipped up in applying the rules.

Same way we slipped up with the Neymar fee.

Same way our President ended in Prison.

For other teams these would be huge events. For Barcelona, it's Tuesday.
 

malvolio

Senior Member
Every passing day Messi looks more mortal.
Board really missed a trick by not selling him. This sentimental streak never bodes well. A certain AC Milan was that way and look where they are now.

in the end what's 100M and messi's salary off the books for a year? we would have spent it on dross anyway.

having messi for a year with the current state of our squad > not having messi for a year

if they want him out, nobody stops them to not renew him.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
This season Messi hasn't scored a goal from an open play yet, in 4 matches played (3 with Barca, 1 with Argentina).

On the 13th June, he scored a 93rd minute goal vs Mallorca for 4:1.
After that:
Leganes 2:0, Fati, Messi penalty goal
Sevilla 0:0, --
Bilbao 1:0, Rakitic
Celta 2:2, Suarez 2x
Atletico 2:2, Costa own goal, Messi penalty
Villareal 4:1, Torres own goal, Suarez, Griezmann, Fati
Espanyol 1:0, Suarez
Valladolid 1:0, Vidal
Osasuna 1:2, Messi free kick
Alaves 5:0, last round, friendly match, Messi 2 goals

Napoli 3:1, Messi, Lenglet, Suarez penalty
Bayern 2:8, Suarez 2x

This season:
Villareal 4:1, Fati2 x, Messi penalty, Torres own goal
Celta 3:0, Fati, Olaza own goal, Roberto
Sevilla 1:1, Coutinho
Argentina 1:0, Messi penalty kick

If I have counted correctly, in the last 16 official matches, Messi scored a goal from an open play ONLY against Alaves in the last round, when the league was already over.
And against Napoli.
In other 14 matches, he wasn't able to score from an open play.

And lots of our fans disagree with his decline or say that he is still top 2-3 players in the world.
Also, if some of us say that he has declined massively, that is not an insult towards the younger Messi.
Younger Messi was a GOAT.
The current Messi is a shadow of a former player.

And it will be worse and worse each new month.
 

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