Lionel Messi - v7

[Rory]

That "Messi carries Barca" bullshit argument didn't age too well.

As soon as the Xavis, the Iniestas, The Puyols, the Alves', The Etoo's, The Villas, all the greats that made Barca unplayable at their best were gone, Messi has been collecting humiliation after humiliation in CL.

Messi was just 1 incredible player in an incredible team, be it Pep's Barca, or MSN Barca.

It's a mixture of things but you're only pointing out the things that enhance your overall argument. Of course Messi was elevated to higher heights and won more due to the generational talents around him. Unfortunately they were mostly replaced by average footballers.

Alves - Roberto and Semedo. Roberto is an ok squad player, Semedo now plays for wolves..

Midfield since Xavi left - Paulinho, Arthur, Vidal, Frenkie brought in. Vidal had pedigree but was already on the decline + a strange fit for our team. Frenkie has shown half of what we all thought he was capable of. Paulinho and Arthur are two average footballers.

Eto'o - replaced by Suarez which was great, absolutely no quality back up signed though. And of course he won something with him.

Puyol - Mascherano did well to fill his boots 14/15 season. Since then... Umtiti (need I say more), Lenglet (decent but not elite).

The 2018/2019 season Messi carried us in the UCL and league. It's unfair to say otherwise. Last season not so much even though his stats were great, it was more an overall team decline. BBZ too, you've said how Messi being great in valverde years was just masking over a declining squad and the only reason we had a chance to win anything.

 

[Morten]

1. he won two, in the last 10 years
2. in 2015 we had prime suarez, neymar and rakitic
3. CL is about luck and circumstances in most cases. we had better teams than madrid, but they somehow managed to have those 2-3 game streaks that matter in the CL and ended up with more trophies. i think barca has the best CL record over the last 10 years, if you consider how many times we made it past the QF and SF stages
4. barca is the best team over the last decade and that's mostly because we had the messi cheat code

Wait, why are you talking as if we "only" won the CL a few times and did nothing more? We made the semi-finals for 8 straight seasons.

 

[KingLeo10]

Anyone thinking Barca was more successful than RM in the last 10 years in CL is textbook delusional.

If we compare from 2005 - 2020, it's about even with Barca having an edge in peak level.

 

[KingMessi]

Anyone thinking Barca was more successful than RM in the last 10 years in CL is textbook delusional.

If we compare from 2005 - 2020, it's about even with Barca having an edge in peak level.

Yeah from 2010-2020, it's 2 titles for us and 4 titles for Madrid (3 in a row). And that's not taking in to account how many times each team has made the semifinals, 6 times for us and 8 times in a row for Madrid.

 

[MagIX]

That "Messi carries Barca" bullshit argument didn't age too well.

As soon as the Xavis, the Iniestas, The Puyols, the Alves', The Etoo's, The Villas, all the greats that made Barca unplayable at their best were gone, Messi has been collecting humiliation after humiliation in CL.

Messi was just 1 incredible player in an incredible team, be it Pep's Barca, or MSN Barca.

The same would happen to Xavi or Iniesta or Villa or Puyol or Alves or Etoo or Villa without the players (inkl Messi) that mada Barca unplayable. Or do you think that Barca of the last 4 years without Messi but for example with Xavi would have won 4 CL ?
It's like saying that Argentina with for example Iniesta would win the WC
And btw we had a BIG humiliation in CL (probably the worst in the last 10 years) with the unplayable Barca (12/13) with Iniesta, Xavi, Alves...and Messi injured vs Bayern 7-0.....
Soccer is a team sport, there is no player who carry a poor team to win a CL or liga or WC, not Messi or Maradona or Pele or Cr or Iniesta or Xavi and so on.
This rule applies to everyone, but it seems that it applies more to Messi

 

[khaled_a_d]

No player wins anything by himself, even in 5 vs 5 games like basketball no player could do this.
Great players can either make you a level better than you are, or the difference between 2 great teams.
Messi has been that way for over a decade

 

[Vilarrubi]

No player wins anything by himself, even in 5 vs 5 games like basketball no player could do this.
Great players can either make you a level better than you are, or the difference between 2 great teams.
Messi has been that way for over a decade

Spot on. Everyone needs good team mates from Pele to Maradona etc. Messi is as much a game winner as you can get in football. Theres no-one above him with that consistency for that length of time despite the CL losses.

 

[MagIX]

No player wins anything by himself, even in 5 vs 5 games like basketball no player could do this.
Great players can either make you a level better than you are, or the difference between 2 great teams.
Messi has been that way for over a decade

+1

 

[BBZ8800]

Anyone thinking Barca was more successful than RM in the last 10 years in CL is textbook delusional.

If we compare from 2005 - 2020, it's about even with Barca having an edge in peak level.

Or the last 5 years:
Real 3 CLs, Barca 0 CLs
Barca 1 semis in 5 years

 

[Katarina1]

1. he won two, in the last 10 years
2. in 2015 we had prime suarez, neymar and rakitic
3. CL is about luck and circumstances in most cases. we had better teams than madrid, but they somehow managed to have those 2-3 game streaks that matter in the CL and ended up with more trophies. i think barca has the best CL record over the last 10 years, if you consider how many times we made it past the QF and SF stages
4. barca is the best team over the last decade and that's mostly because we had the messi cheat code

Im not even sure r/barca would agree with that

 

[malvolio]

Wait, why are you talking as if we "only" won the CL a few times and did nothing more? We made the semi-finals for 8 straight seasons.

Don't know why, for some reason, I thought it was different. Must of been from 2005 onwards. My bad then, stupid statement

Still standing by point no 4.

 

[JohnN]

That's the problem when people say Messis level has dropped, which is evident. Suddenly the convertation changes and it's about that he didn't Carry Barca ( no one said that before 2015 by the way) like he was just another good player among many.
Why do we have to mix things that are different. He is 33 ffs. If you think he wasn't the one that gave Barca that extra edge, even when we were at out best, just because he can't carry us at 33, you are just biased. Reducing a players legacy and status just because he aged. Astonishing hate campaign. @Serghei!

In my opinion, he has been in steady and slow decline since 2013. Had some peaks in between but was never again that alien from 2008-2012, at least not consistently. Still, everyone else was so much behind it wasn't even a contest.

2018 was the last chance while he was still at a good level. I can't see a comeback of form after anfield and age catching up.

 

[Morten]

That's the problem when people say Messis level has dropped, which is evident. Suddenly the convertation changes and it's about that he didn't Carry Barca ( no one said that before 2015 by the way) like he was just another good player among many.
Why do we have to mix things that are different. He is 33 ffs. If you think he wasn't the one that gave Barca that extra edge, even when we were at out best, just because he can't carry us at 33, you are just biased. Reducing a players legacy and status just because he aged. Astonishing hate campaign. @Serghei!

In my opinion, he has been in steady and slow decline since 2013. Had some peaks in between but was never again that alien from 2008-2012, at least not consistently. Still, everyone else was so much behind it wasn't even a contest.

2018 was the last chance while he was still at a good level. I can't see a comeback of form after anfield and age catching up.

He really played his heart out in that CL-campaign, one of the best CL-campaigns ever, team really let him down that season.

 

[ItachiXXX]

The same would happen to Xavi or Iniesta or Villa or Puyol or Alves or Etoo or Villa without the players (inkl Messi) that mada Barca unplayable. Or do you think that Barca of the last 4 years without Messi but for example with Xavi would have won 4 CL ?
It's like saying that Argentina with for example Iniesta would win the WC
And btw we had a BIG humiliation in CL (probably the worst in the last 10 years) with the unplayable Barca (12/13) with Iniesta, Xavi, Alves...and Messi injured vs Bayern 7-0.....
Soccer is a team sport, there is no player who carry a poor team to win a CL or liga or WC, not Messi or Maradona or Pele or Cr or Iniesta or Xavi and so on.
This rule applies to everyone, but it seems that it applies more to Messi

forum de amigos still having a hard time with the idea of a TEAM. Most football fans agreed that Messi is carrying Barca for years now while he's getting older his teammates getting worst. He's doing the striker and midfielders role, and some here even want him to defend more too 😆 Forum De Amigos keeps on taking about the success of RM CL but forgot that they're playing in the same league with Barca that they won, how many ? Barca manage poorly than RM, ordinary managers and spend more mediocre hype players and youngsters.
Just give Messi a rest where for one season his teammates will carry him to success.

 

[soul24rage]

He really played his heart out in that CL-campaign, one of the best CL-campaigns ever, team really let him down that season.

That season broke me. Really thought we were gonna do the treble after that Liverpool 3-0 win