Lionel Messi - v7

Fati_Future_BallonDor

Well-known member
This should have been clear the moment where we trashed Madrid 4-0 and 5-1 without Messi. As long as you build a top team, you can win everything without Messi, just like the other teams have done it so many times.

Thats a very good point. We completely outplayed the best team of La liga two times without Messi. When did we this with Messi ? I think 2010 when we won 5-0. By the way I dont count the 3-0 at Bernabeu as Real was better than us while we were icecold.
 

Fati_Future_BallonDor

Well-known member
You need multiple matchwinners, having everything go through one player will eventually backfire.
Juve is another example, at least in CL-games, if Ronaldo isnt scoring, nobody is.

Ideally, it should be possible to have such a player in the team, without always looking to that player to find the answers, but thats not what happens in practise.

+1

Real of 2015-2018 is the best example. Of course Ronaldo was the main goalscorer but they had also other players who can score goals in crucial moments. I still cant belive that Real won it three times in a row LOL, how is this possible ?! :lol:
 

serghei

Senior Member
You need multiple matchwinners, having everything go through one player will eventually backfire.
Juve is another example, at least in CL-games, if Ronaldo isnt scoring, nobody is.

Ideally, it should be possible to have such a player in the team, without always looking to that player to find the answers, but thats not what happens in practise.

It's not really the fault of the players. It's a known rule in the team that X player needs to be passed all the time. It's not a conspiracy theory. In Barca, there is no doubt that all players feel the pressure of having to pass to Messi whenever he seems like he's asking it.

This is known even since the days of Guardiola. Guardiola didn't like progression up the line, Alves confessed (for good reason). But he still did it because Messi was starting to get annoyed and disconnected from the game if he wasn't passed to a lot. So, Messi wants to be passed to all the time. Now amplify that 10 times, and you start to get the picture.

So, the real issue is Barca players feel they have to pass to Messi whenever he asks it, no matter if better passes are available at the time. It's the club signaling them that if you pass to Messi, you'll be well looked at. Messi will like you, and your position in the team will be great. If not, you'll be a pariah and your days will be numbered. Smart players learn very fast that passing to Messi a lot is a quick and effecting way to becoming a big name in the team. Vidal learned it immediately and earned himself a high status in the team in no time.

I'll tell you something, if Griezmann refused to pass to Messi or Suarez in a game, like they blatantly refused to pass him when he was open in a much better position, he would've been out. But you have clown fans who say Messi should not pass to Griezmann even when he makes a great run, because he's shit. :lol: You just can't win when you are up against such toxic mentality.

So, this is not about players wanting themselves to set up Messi all the time, which would indeed show a deference of responsibility form the players to Messi. This is a problem of players being made to feel constantly that they have to pass to Messi, by Messi's actions and how the club handles itself in relation to Messi. It's clear Messi runs Barca for me, not only the team now, but even the club. He threatened to leave, and many idiots protested on the streets. :lol:. Now Bartomeu is about to be gone. Just because Messi went against him.

Only way out is Messi not being extended. Or Messi not backtracking and leaving at the end of the season. But I have the feeling that the club will continue to bow down to Messi and act as Messi's toy for 2-3 more years. I hope I'm wrong. Blind fans kid themselves that Messi doesn't like being in such a commanding position in the club. :lol:. Lol. Why would he, he's only the no1 person in the club with huge power. He was threatening Tata Martino with his job and the club protected this behavior for years and years. Because of millions of Messi-fanatics who think this is not a big deal, Martino is shit, Griezmann is shit, all are shit, and Messi is GOD and what he does is great.
 
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Rory

Senior Member
"Other people have a toxic mentality"

also...

"Messi is a cunt and anyone who has a reasonable discussion is wrong and I am right and I am the best"

Anyone watched the boys season 2? Serghei is homelander in his last scene.
 

ItachiXXX

New member
Nobody carries anybody and all players can be replaced. That's been my position about this the whole time. I've changed my opinion about many things, but not about this. I've always been against making one player the center of the team and tailoring the team to suit him. This was always gonna bring bad things, because that's not how you play football in 2020.

This should have been clear the moment where we trashed Madrid 4-0 and 5-1 without Messi. As long as you build a top team, you can win everything without Messi, just like the other teams have done it so many times.

But forum de amigos said Valverde, Suarez, Roberto and every other amigos are shit, not physically fit. But here you are using that win against Real Madrid 😆

Barcelona with and without Messi
https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/comparing-barcelonas-record-with-and-without-lionel-messi-since-2017-18/
+1

Real of 2015-2018 is the best example. Of course Ronaldo was the main goalscorer but they had also other players who can score goals in crucial moments. I still cant belive that Real won it three times in a row LOL, how is this possible ?! :lol:

You forgot that Refs scored goals too for Real Madrid 😆
 
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ItachiXXX

New member
It's not really the fault of the players. It's a known rule in the team that X player needs to be passed all the time. It's not a conspiracy theory. In Barca, there is no doubt that all players feel the pressure of having to pass to Messi whenever he seems like he's asking it.

This is known even since the days of Guardiola. Guardiola didn't like progression up the line, Alves confessed (for good reason). But he still did it because Messi was starting to get annoyed and disconnected from the game if he wasn't passed to a lot. So, Messi wants to be passed to all the time. Now amplify that 10 times, and you start to get the picture.

So, the real issue is Barca players feel they have to pass to Messi whenever he asks it, no matter if better passes are available at the time. It's the club signaling them that if you pass to Messi, you'll be well looked at. Messi will like you, and your position in the team will be great. If not, you'll be a pariah and your days will be numbered. Smart players learn very fast that passing to Messi a lot is a quick and effecting way to becoming a big name in the team. Vidal learned it immediately and earned himself a high status in the team in no time.

I'll tell you something, if Griezmann refused to pass to Messi or Suarez in a game, like they blatantly refused to pass him when he was open in a much better position, he would've been out. But you have clown fans who say Messi should not pass to Griezmann even when he makes a great run, because he's shit. :lol: You just can't win when you are up against such toxic mentality.

So, this is not about players wanting themselves to set up Messi all the time, which would indeed show a deference of responsibility form the players to Messi. This is a problem of players being made to feel constantly that they have to pass to Messi, by Messi's actions and how the club handles itself in relation to Messi. It's clear Messi runs Barca for me, not only the team now, but even the club. He threatened to leave, and many idiots protested on the streets. :lol:. Now Bartomeu is about to be gone. Just because Messi went against him.

Only way out is Messi not being extended. Or Messi not backtracking and leaving at the end of the season. But I have the feeling that the club will continue to bow down to Messi and act as Messi's toy for 2-3 more years. I hope I'm wrong. Blind fans kid themselves that Messi doesn't like being in such a commanding position in the club. :lol:. Lol. Why would he, he's only the no1 person in the club with huge power. He was threatening Tata Martino with his job and the club protected this behavior for years and years. Because of millions of Messi-fanatics who think this is not a big deal, Martino is shit, Griezmann is shit, all are shit, and Messi is GOD and what he does is great.

This clown sounds like a Barto puppet bots, pushing this narrative that Messi is kinda dictator and who decides who's in or out in Barca.
 

Rory

Senior Member
"Now Bartomeu is about to be gone. Just because Messi went against him." How is anyone supposed to take that seriously when it's pretty clear Bartomeu is the worst thing to happen to barcelona in a long, long time.

I don't even need to explain the terrible things Bartomeu has done that has put us at a disadvantage for the best part of a decade in comparison to other clubs (including the next few years). Messi staying on an additional 2 years (if this happens) would be small fries in comparison to the damage Bartomeu has inflicted on us.
 

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