Lionel Messi - v7

[BBZ8800]

Forum De Amigos keeps on taking about the success of RM CL but forgot that they're playing in the same league with Barca that they won, how many ? Barca manage poorly than RM, ordinary managers and spend more mediocre hype players and youngsters.
Just give Messi a rest where for one season his teammates will carry him to success.

Pattern is the same:
1. Messi is awesome against Leganes, sucks in a CL
2. Barca is awesome in La Liga, sucks in a CL
3. Pep's City was awesome in EPL, sucked in a CL

This type of football/skills is awesome against weaker opponents.
But sucks against bigger, dirtier, physical, combative teams.

RM and CR7 on the other hand had a style which was not as technical and as good against La liga teams, but was good and more versatile against big teams.

Messi is the same.
King of La Liga.
King of CDR.
King of CL group stage matches.
A ghost in a CL KO away matches and in World cup/Copa America KO matches.
Iirc, he hasn't scored a single goal in his career in KO matches of World cup/Copa America from an open play.

About Messi and La liga, don't forget that majority of players in La Liga are Spanish or South Americans, who are on average way shorter than Germans, Brits or Scandinavians.

So, to some extent, in La Liga, Messi and Barca didn't need to face their two biggest mortal enemies:
1. sudden death KO matches with high pressure
2. extremely physical team or teams who are attacking with crosses, corners, long balls all the time like Roma, Liverpool or Bayern

La Ligas opponents are mostly light, technical teams.
Something like Barca, but with only 20 million budget.

Basically, in La Liga, Barca is for years playing against weaker versions of themselves.
And we have been mastered a style for those teams perfectly.

Barca&Messi&Pep were a perfect mix to trash those type of teams consistently.

 

[George_Costanza]

He seems happier with the NT

 

[feggydinho]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Su?rez: "We looked for each other constantly on the pitch, but for the good of the team. Maybe they wanted him to play with more teammates. That could have something to do with it."</p>— barcacentre (@barcacentre) <a href="https://twitter.com/barcacentre/status/1314680859874734080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I can't seem to understand how Suarez feels he and Messi always passing to each other was for the good of the team (this is probably what Alba, Busquets and new recruit - Pjanic might be feeling too).

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Su?rez: "We looked for each other constantly on the pitch, but for the good of the team. Maybe they wanted him to play with more teammates. That could have something to do with it."</p>— barcacentre (@barcacentre) <a href="https://twitter.com/barcacentre/status/1314680859874734080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I can't seem to understand how Suarez feels he and Messi always passing to each other was for the good of the team (this is probably what Alba, Busquets and new recruit - Pjanic might be feeling too).

Just shows delusional the players are. If he doesn't see his own level has dropped massively, then what can you do?

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

He really played his heart out in that CL-campaign, one of the best CL-campaigns ever, team really let him down that season.

Yeah it was like a lite version of 2015 was back but this time the other players of his team were much worse compared to 2015.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Just shows delusional the players are. If he doesn't see his own level has dropped massively, then what can you do?

In Suarez head he is thinking he is the best striker in the world. I hope now the Suarez-fans here see that it was the right decision to go a seperate way.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

I mean losing 8-2 in CL should be sign enough that Changes have to be made and if they don't realize that, I think they can only blame themselves.

Not to mention other CL humiliations of the past few years. The signs were there FOR years. They are lucky Barca management didn't bother to change anything before, which they should have.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Yeah it was like a lite version of 2015 was back but this time the other players of his team were much worse compared to 2015.

His 2018-19 CL campaign was as good as his 2014-15 (if not better, statistically certainly), only difference was that other players (Neymar, Suarez, Iniesta...) also played really well in 2015.

 

[vegitot]

Look at Brazil now and i still can not think of how Messi and Argentina can beat them if they face each other in the next Copa?

Neymar and Coutinho would run rings around their defense and Brazil will try to isolate Messi completely.

 

[Messigician]

Look at Brazil now and i still can not think of how Messi and Argentina can beat them if they face each other in the next Copa?

Neymar and Coutinho would run rings around their defense and Brazil will try to isolate Messi completely.

Relax it's bolivia lmfao

 

[clemente]

Look at Brazil now and i still can not think of how Messi and Argentina can beat them if they face each other in the next Copa?

Neymar and Coutinho would run rings around their defense and Brazil will try to isolate Messi completely.

Brazil is shit when it matters, they will get knocked out by Colombia, and then Argentina will get knocked out by Chile

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

His 2018-19 CL campaign was as good as his 2014-15 (if not better, statistically certainly), only difference was that other players (Neymar, Suarez, Iniesta...) also played really well in 2015.

Nah 2015 he was on another level. His passing and dribbling were beyond worldclass. Maybe the best Messi and the best player we have ever seen. 18-19 he was outstanding again but not 2015 level.

Another aspect which I have noticed after watching 14-15 Messi Youtube videos: Did his passing decline ? He had played so many accurate through balls in 14/15, magical passing which I dont see nowadays or atleast not so often as in his legendary season.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Brazil is shit when it matters, they will get knocked out by Colombia, and then Argentina will get knocked out by Chile

Same old story

 

[serghei]

The same would happen to Xavi or Iniesta or Villa or Puyol or Alves or Etoo or Villa without the players (inkl Messi) that mada Barca unplayable. Or do you think that Barca of the last 4 years without Messi but for example with Xavi would have won 4 CL ?
It's like saying that Argentina with for example Iniesta would win the WC
And btw we had a BIG humiliation in CL (probably the worst in the last 10 years) with the unplayable Barca (12/13) with Iniesta, Xavi, Alves...and Messi injured vs Bayern 7-0.....
Soccer is a team sport, there is no player who carry a poor team to win a CL or liga or WC, not Messi or Maradona or Pele or Cr or Iniesta or Xavi and so on.
This rule applies to everyone, but it seems that it applies more to Messi

Nobody carries anybody and all players can be replaced. That's been my position about this the whole time. I've changed my opinion about many things, but not about this. I've always been against making one player the center of the team and tailoring the team to suit him. This was always gonna bring bad things, because that's not how you play football in 2020.

This should have been clear the moment where we trashed Madrid 4-0 and 5-1 without Messi. As long as you build a top team, you can win everything without Messi, just like the other teams have done it so many times.

 

[Morten]

Nobody carries anybody and all players can be replaced. That's been my position about this the whole time. I've changed my opinion about many things, but not about this. I've always been against making one player the center of the team and tailoring the team to suit him. This was always gonna bring bad things, because that's not how you play football in 2020.

This should have been clear the moment where we trashed Madrid 4-0 and 5-1 without Messi. As long as you build a top team, you can win everything without Messi, just like the other teams have done it so many times.

You need multiple matchwinners, having everything go through one player will eventually backfire.
Juve is another example, at least in CL-games, if Ronaldo isnt scoring, nobody is.

Ideally, it should be possible to have such a player in the team, without always looking to that player to find the answers, but thats not what happens in practise.